What the New Testament says about God is true

[TransmutingSoul]

Is that a good reason for Bahá'ís to use the same approach to Christian scripture? To try to misuse Christian scripture to make Baha'u'llah equal to Jesus, and even superior to Jesus?

You would be saying this.

Is that a good reason for Christians to use the same approach to Jewish scripture? To try to misuse Jewish scripture to make Jesus equal to Abraham and Moses, and even superior to Abraham and Moses?

You will always face this problem, because all the rejection offered to each of the Messengers from the beginning of time, is repeated in every age.

Thus the wisdom in the One of God in the given Name and Attributes of all the Messengers.

Noah, Abraham, Krishna, Moses, Zoroaster, Buddha, Jesus Christ, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah all become One in the same Holy Spirit, bringing us to the ONE God.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There's lots of "messages" in the different religions. Are all the contradictory "messages" in the different religions proof of the religion? Something don't sound

The Message has the same fundamental God given principles that will unite and bind humanity. The Message is given suited to the age, so it may appear superficially to differ. Aspects such as laws and ordances are changed from age to age as humanity evolves.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Okay, sure... But Baha'u'llah, as far as I know, didn't mention Hinduism or Buddhism. How can a Baha'i "defend" the Baha'i claim that the Abrahamic God of the Bible is the same God that Baha'is claim "revealed" Hinduism and Buddhism?

I personally see that any original teachings in both Buddhism and Hinduism given by God, will be reflected in the Message given by Baha'u'llah. The genuine practitioner of those original teachings will not be as veiled as are the Abrahamic lines, who chose domination over sharing. Hinduism and Buddhism are far more inclusive.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I do understand that this is your belief. And I'm not trying to convince you to give it up. I'm only sharing that it is not my belief, and why I do not believe it. I don't think there is any such thing as a man who is more than a man.

That is great with me, as you know we can live in peace and love in our diversity, our faith in God is not a barrier to being kind and generous to each other and all humanity.

I do have a genuine question. What do you see about the promise of the end of age Messiah awaited by the Jew? Will that be an event of an ordinary man? (Trying not to impute my vision into the question, but maybe I have?)

Regards Tony

 

[YoursTrue]

My morning prayers each day for all Humanity include "Thy Will be done in earth as it is in Heaven".

And

Is there any Remover of difficulties save God? Say: Praised be God! He is God! All are His servants, and all abide by His bidding!

And

Say: God sufficeth all things above all things, and nothing in the heavens or in the earth but God sufficeth. Verily, He is in Himself the Knower, the Sustainer, the Omnipotent.

Regards Tony

All God's Messengers are One and every one of the Revelations that they have given stand on their own, as each is suited to the age it was given.

Jesus does not fulfil the end of ages expectations as recorded in the Tanakh, but Jesus is a Messiah, which means, just as Christ does, "Annointed One". Jesus was Annointed of God and does fulfil prophecy as noted in the Tanakh.

In prophecy in the Tanakh is also supported in the truth by God as given in the New Testament. They all contain prophecy supporting Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Excepting thr prophecies have been fulfilled is relative to one embracing the independent truth given by a Messenger. It is very rare that a person will except a Messenger by the use of prophecy only.

Regards Tony

I will ask a question. Reasonable one. Why should anyone believe you about what you said? Regards also. L

 

[Spice]

You would be saying this.

Is that a good reason for Christians to use the same approach to Jewish scripture? To try to misuse Jewish scripture to make Jesus equal to Abraham and Moses, and even superior to Abraham and Moses?

You will always face this problem, because all the rejection offered to each of the Messengers from the beginning of time, is repeated in every age.

Thus the wisdom in the One of God in the given Name and Attributes of all the Messengers.

Noah, Abraham, Krishna, Moses, Zoroaster, Buddha, Jesus Christ, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah all become One in the same Holy Spirit, bringing us to the ONE God.

Regards Tony

What "message" did Noah bring? And - Why Abraham instead of Melchizedek which was Abraham's priest, and a High Priest "in the order of" Jesus? And why is Solomon left out? He most definitely shared messages.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What "message" did Noah bring? And - Why Abraham instead of Melchizedek which was Abraham's priest, and a High Priest "in the order of" Jesus? And why is Solomon left out? He most definitely shared messages.

Maybe a good OP for you to start for discussion in detail!

I see the Message of Noah had a great underlying implications

Salvation lays only in accepting and embracing the Message given of God and entering upon the ark of salvation, which is the guidance and laws of God.

There is different levels of Revelation. God gives us the "Annointed Ones', those that speak as appointed by God. Then there are the Apostle and minor prophets that give the Message in the Light of the Annointed Ones.

As to the station of all Prophets mentioned in Scriptures, that is something that can be determined in the future, when war is no more. The ones I mentioned are supported in the Quran and/or Baha'i Writings.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I will ask a question. Reasonable one. Why should anyone believe you about what you said? Regards also. L

I do and would not ask anyone to beleive me in what I have offered. My positivity is my positivity.

I would offer they would need to determine if there is any truth in the materials offered, for their own selves.

Regards Tony

 

[Spice]

Maybe a good OP for you to start for discussion in detail!

I see the Message of Noah had a great underlying implications

Salvation lays only in accepting and embracing the Message given of God and entering upon the ark of salvation, which is the guidance and laws of God.

There is different levels of Revelation. God gives us the "Annointed Ones', those that speak as appointed by God. Then there are the Apostle and minor prophets that give the Message in the Light of the Annointed Ones.

As to the station of all Prophets mentioned in Scriptures, that is something that can be determined in the future, when war is no more. The ones I mentioned are supported in the Quran and/or Baha'i Writings.

Regards Tony

So, no thoughts of your own? What do you, not Baha'i, think of Melchizedek's role in bringing monotheism to the region?

 

[YoursTrue]

I do and would not ask anyone to beleive me in what I have offered. My positivity is my positivity.

I would offer they would need to determine if there is any truth in the materials offered, for their own selves.

Regards Tony

That would be reasonable.

 

[CG Didymus]

I personally see that any original teachings in both Buddhism and Hinduism given by God, will be reflected in the Message given by Baha'u'llah. The genuine practitioner of those original teachings will not be as veiled as are the Abrahamic lines, who chose domination over sharing. Hinduism and Buddhism are far more inclusive.

Regards Tony

Oh, so if I meditate correctly, be a nice person, I'll become enlightened someday after many rebirths.

Or, after being reincarnated several times, I will achieve Moksha.

But where in the Buddhist Scripture does it say God gave that message to the Buddha?

And since Baha'is only talk about Krishna, which God gave him his message? Because I think, for some Hindus he is a God. And for some he is an incarnation of the God Vishnu... one of the three main Gods in that sect of Hinduism. I think. I don't know for sure. But I'd imagine you know from what it says in the infallible writings of Baha'u'llah. Which was what?

For me, there is no need to force other religions into the Baha'i progression. As mentioned several times... Baha'is have to do away the many Gods, incarnations of God and reincarnation and probably several other major beliefs of many Hindus... Same thing with Buddhism... and even Christianity... With Christians, Baha'i have to do away with all that stuff about salvation.

With Born Again Christians, as I'm sure you know, people can't save themselves. Only through Jesus can they be saved. I don't know how many verses you'd have to reinterpret or ignore to get around that.

And a lot of us, including me, that don't believe in Christianity find the easiest thing to do... is to ignore it. Who wants to be thinking about burning in hell all the time.

Actually, forget those Born Again Christians, the Baha'i Faith is way better... no hell, no Satan. But... how again do you explain away all that salvation stuff?

 

[CG Didymus]

Is there any Remover of difficulties save God?

And does he remove the difficulties? I imagine sometimes. But how often? Like... does sometimes he wants you to suffer a little bit. Of course, it's to grow spiritually... not just to be mean.

Use the Bible as a guide to all Faiths gone before, each passage of the New Testament will given insight into the Old.

"Each"? Yeah, you better give a few examples.

 

[CG Didymus]

I can trust them as Baha'u'llah quoted from the Bible, said that it would not be just of God to give a Testament to humanity via Jesus and then not leave the Message for prosperity.

Yes, we have that message. And it's a "sure" guide? So, when it says in Mark I can pick up serpents and not be harmed, I can trust that?

And if I have faith, do you think I can walk on water like Peter?

I don't think so. And I don't think Baha'is believe the Bible and the NT all that literally. And once Baha'is start doing their "symbolic" interpretations, they can make any verse say anything they want.

 

[CG Didymus]

All God's Messengers are One and every one of the Revelations that they have given stand on their own, as each is suited to the age it was given.

And what do the Baha'is see as the message given by Adam, Noah, Abraham? I really, really don't see them fitting in as being "manifestations." They were all part of the story being told in Genesis that led up to the Hebrews becoming slaves in Egypt. Then comes Moses. But does the story stop there? No. Lots of prophets, but the Baha'is don't make any of them "manifestations". So, why those first guys?

 

[CG Didymus]

What "message" did Noah bring? And - Why Abraham instead of Melchizedek which was Abraham's priest, and a High Priest "in the order of" Jesus? And why is Solomon left out? He most definitely shared messages.

But they do include Hud.

But I don't know why they don't include Rama and all the other incarnations of Vishnu that came before Krishna.

Or maybe I do. They needed someone they could say was a manifestation of God from Hinduism. Why they needs four people from Judaism? Who knows?

I really don't see how Baha'is can ever expect some of these beliefs of theirs to ever get mass acceptance.

Here's something on Hud...

A prophet of God who appeared before Abraham to the people of ‘Ad. He is said to have been a fourth-generation descendant of Noah. He ‘proclaimed to his people that God had chosen him as a prophet, and preached to them the one true God and the destruction of their idols. But they rejected him, and only a few became his followers.'33 A calamity took place in which all perished except Húd and his followers. According to tradition, Húd is buried in Hadhramaut in the south of the Arabian peninsula.​

There is a chapter of the Qur'án known as the Súrih of Húd. Bahá'u'lláh refers to Húd in the Kitáb-i-Iqán and the Lawḥ-i-Burhán.​

 

[CG Didymus]

There is different levels of Revelation. God gives us the "Annointed Ones', those that speak as appointed by God. Then there are the Apostle and minor prophets that give the Message in the Light of the Annointed Ones.

Judaism had prophets. Christianity had apostles. Who were their "prophets"?

Now I've heard of Gurus and Yogis in Hinduism, but not apostles or prophets. Oh, and of course, incarnations or Avatars.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So, no thoughts of your own? What do you, not Baha'i, think of Melchizedek's role in bringing monotheism to the region?

Rely on my thoughts and it is no different from the thoughts of anyone interpretation the Bible, I should always use the keys, or it is meaningless.

It appears Melchizedek was lighted by the Message of Abraham and gave praise to our One God.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I personally see that any original teachings in both Buddhism and Hinduism given by God, will be reflected in the Message given by Baha'u'llah.

Oh, so if I meditate correctly be a nice person I'll become enlightened someday after many rebirths.

CG, Read my reply and then yours, you will then have the answer you are seeking from me, that I have already offered.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

I personally see that any original teachings in both Buddhism and Hinduism given by God, will be reflected in the Message given by Baha'u'llah.

Okay, what were the main "original" teachings of Hinduism and Buddhism?

 

[YoursTrue]

Oh, so if I meditate correctly, be a nice person, I'll become enlightened someday after many rebirths.

Or, after being reincarnated several times, I will achieve Moksha.

But where in the Buddhist Scripture does it say God gave that message to the Buddha?

And since Baha'is only talk about Krishna, which God gave him his message? Because I think, for some Hindus he is a God. And for some he is an incarnation of the God Vishnu... one of the three main Gods in that sect of Hinduism. I think. I don't know for sure. But I'd imagine you know from what it says in the infallible writings of Baha'u'llah. Which was what?

For me, there is no need to force other religions into the Baha'i progression. As mentioned several times... Baha'is have to do away the many Gods, incarnations of God and reincarnation and probably several other major beliefs of many Hindus... Same thing with Buddhism... and even Christianity... With Christians, Baha'i have to do away with all that stuff about salvation.

With Born Again Christians, as I'm sure you know, people can't save themselves. Only through Jesus can they be saved. I don't know how many verses you'd have to reinterpret or ignore to get around that.

And a lot of us, including me, that don't believe in Christianity find the easiest thing to do... is to ignore it. Who wants to be thinking about burning in hell all the time.

Actually, forget those Born Again Christians, the Baha'i Faith is way better... no hell, no Satan. But... how again do you explain away all that salvation stuff?

That would be terrible to think about the awful possibility of burning in hell. The idea of death (nothingness, no consciousness) is bad enough for me. My studies have shown me that the idea of conscious torment of anyone in some hell type fire is a misunderstanding of the scriptures. There was no second chance for Adam and Eve after they sinned. God promised them death, not hell type eternal torture. They're dead.