What the New Testament says about God is true

[TransmutingSoul]

Okay, what were the main "original" teachings of Hinduism and Buddhism?

Those that are reflected in the Message of Baha'u'llah.

Reincarnation, that offers we will return to this existence after death in any shape or form, are not reflected in the Message of Baha’u’llah and as such are not original teachings of a Messenger from God.

Regards Tony

 

[IndigoChild5559]

That is great with me, as you know we can live in peace and love in our diversity, our faith in God is not a barrier to being kind and generous to each other and all humanity.

I do have a genuine question. What do you see about the promise of the end of age Messiah awaited by the Jew? Will that be an event of an ordinary man? (Trying not to impute my vision into the question, but maybe I have?)

Regards Tony

Different religious jews approach the topic of the messianic age and the messiah differently. For example, an orthodox Jew will most likely believe the messiah is an actual, literal man who will rule Israel during the messianic age. That's not me. For religious Jews that are more like myself, we see "the messiah" as a metaphor for the human actions that will bring this idyllic age into being.

 

[Sumadji]

And what do the Baha'is see as the message given by Adam, Noah, Abraham? I really, really don't see them fitting in as being "manifestations." They were all part of the story being told in Genesis that led up to the Hebrews becoming slaves in Egypt. Then comes Moses. But does the story stop there? No. Lots of prophets, but the Baha'is don't make any of them "manifestations". So, why those first guys?

But they do include Hud.

The Baha'i faith is based on the Quran, which considers Adam, Noah, Abraham, Hud and Jesus to be prophets, along with others, including Job and Jonah. The Quran contains stories that echo Christian apocryphal accounts: the Seven Sleepers of Ephesus, the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, and others. It's unlikely Baha'u'llah knew much about the Jewish or Christian scriptures, beyond what he heard and what the Quran had to say about them. I could be wrong, but I think it's unlikely he read the Old or New Testaments. Abdul Baha followed up and did a bit more study

 

[YoursTrue]

The Baha'i faith is based on the Quran, which considers Adam, Noah, Abraham, Hud and Jesus to be prophets, along with others, including Job and Jonah. The Quran contains stories that echo Christian apocryphal accounts: the Seven Sleepers of Ephesus, the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, and others. It's unlikely Baha'u'llah knew much about the Jewish or Christian scriptures, beyond what he heard and what the Quran had to say about them. I could be wrong, but I think it's unlikely he read the Old or New Testaments. Abdul Baha followed up and did a bit more study

From what I understand, Mohammed had some contact with Christianity. I don't think he could read or write so he heard about it from others. We know from the Bible that the apostle Paul was greatly involved with clarifying things in the early congregations.

 

[Sumadji]

From what I understand, Mohammed had some contact with Christianity. I don't think he could read or write so he heard about it from others.

The Quran Jesus is a sketched and shadowy figure bearing almost no resemblance to the living NT Jesus, imo

No way the Quran updates or informs the New Testament

 

[Trailblazer]

The Quran Jesus is a sketched and shadowy figure bearing almost no resemblance to the living NT Jesus, imo

No way the Quran updates or informs the New Testament

From what Muslims have told me, they revere Jesus as one of the greatest Messengers of God who ever lived.

Can you give me some examples of what the Qur'an says about Jesus as a shadowy figure?
What do you mean by the living NT Jesus?

 

[Sumadji]

From what Muslims have told me, they revere Jesus as one of the greatest Messengers of God who ever lived.

They do revere Jesus, that is true. But a person who reads the Quran alone will discover very little about who Jesus was and what he said and did.

Can you give me some examples of what the Qur'an says about Jesus as a shadowy figure?

I could give you many, but it would be better if you read the Quran and the New Testament to decide for yourself, than debating extracts out of context? Sorry, but it would be the subject for a new thread?

What do you mean by the living NT Jesus?

I mean the living, walking, talking, flesh and blood Jesus of the NT

 

[Trailblazer]

The Baha'i faith is based on the Quran, which considers Adam, Noah, Abraham, Hud and Jesus to be prophets, along with others, including Job and Jonah.

Baha'u'llah may have written some things that are similar to the Qur'an but The Baha'i Faith is not based upon the Quran.
It is based on the Revelation of Baha'u'llah, which is what God revealed to Baha'u'llah.

“O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 57-60

It's unlikely Baha'u'llah knew much about the Jewish or Christian scriptures, beyond what he heard and what the Quran had to say about them. I could be wrong, but I think it's unlikely he read the Old or New Testaments. Abdul Baha followed up and did a bit more study

Since Baha'u'llah received His knowledge from God, he did not have to read the Old or New Testaments. I don't know where Abdu'l-Baha got his knowledge of the Bible. He may have read it but he also got a lot of knowledge from his father.


A per the Qur'an, Baha'u'llah was raised as a Muslim so He knew the Qur'an very well.

 

[Sumadji]

Baha'u'llah may have written some things that are similar to the Qur'an but The Baha'i Faith is not based upon the Quran.
It is based on the Revelation of Baha'u'llah, which is what God revealed to Baha'u'llah.

“O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 57-60

Since Baha'u'llah received His knowledge from God, he did not have to read the Old or New Testaments. I don't know where Abdu'l-Baha got his knowledge of the Bible. He may have read it but he also got a lot of knowledge from his father.


A per the Qur'an, Baha'u'llah was raised as a Muslim so He knew the Qur'an very well.

Right ...

 

[YoursTrue]

The Quran Jesus is a sketched and shadowy figure bearing almost no resemblance to the living NT Jesus, imo

No way the Quran updates or informs the New Testament

By the time Mohammad heard about Christianity there were a lot of problematic situations in that realm and only God knows what he heard...

 

[Trailblazer]

They do revere Jesus, that is true. But a person who reads the Quran alone will discover very little about who Jesus was and what he said and did.

I can believe that, even though I have not read the Qur'an, but the same holds true for the Baha'i Writings. They contain very little about who Jesus was and what he said and did. Why would the Qur'an and the Baha'i Writings talk about Jesus? That is not what Islam and the Baha'i Faith are about.

I do not necessarily believe the the NT is an accurate rendition of who Jesus was and what he said and did. This is just my personal opinion, and it has nothing to do with the fact that I have not read the entire NT. It is because of what I have read from those scholars who have read and studied it. Also, because of how the NT came to be written I cannot believe it is reliable, as far as what Jesus said and did.

Of course, this is a big subject, and not one I am prepared to discuss. I'll leave that discussion to the Christians and others who know the NT scriptures.

I could give you many, but it would be better if you read the Quran and the New Testament to decide for yourself?

Sorry, I just do not have time for that. Maybe someday, if I ever decide to retire.

But not only don't I have time, I don't have interest. Religion has never been a topic of interest for me. I am familiar with the Baha'i Writings because it is my religion, not because I enjoy reading scriptures.

I mean the living, walking, talking, breathing fresh and blood Jesus of the NT

If only we knew that the NT represented that Jesus I would like to believe it does but since I am a more logical person than a faith-based person, I tend to doubt that most of the stories about Jesus are true. However, that does not detract from my love for Jesus and His teachings and my belief about what He did for all of humanity.

 

[Sumadji]

I can believe that, even though I have not read the Qur'an, but the same holds true for the Baha'i Writings. They contain very little about who Jesus was and what he said and did. Why would the Qur'an and the Baha'i Writings talk about Jesus? That is not what Islam and the Baha'i Faith are about.

I do not necessarily believe the the NT is an accurate rendition of who Jesus was and what he said and did. This is just my personal opinion, and it has nothing to do with the fact that I have not read the entire NT. It is because of what I have read from those scholars who have read and studied it. Also, because of how the NT came to be written I cannot believe it is reliable, as far as what Jesus said and did.

Of course, this is a big subject, and not one I am prepared to discuss. I'll leave that discussion to the Christians and others who know the NT scriptures.

Sorry, I just do not have time for that. Maybe someday, if I ever decide to retire.

But not only don't I have time, I don't have interest. Religion has never been a topic of interest for me. I am familiar with the Baha'i Writings because it is my religion, not because I enjoy reading scriptures.

If only we knew that the NT represented that Jesus I would like to believe it does but since I am a more logical person than a faith-based person, I tend to doubt that most of the stories about Jesus are true. However, that does not detract from my love for Jesus and His teachings and my belief about what He did for all of humanity.

Well, at least you're honest

 

[YoursTrue]

The spirit that animateth the human heart is the knowledge of God, and its truest adorning is the recognition of the truth that “He doeth whatsoever He willeth, and ordaineth that which He pleaseth.” Its raiment is the fear of God, and its perfection steadfastness in His Faith. Thus God instructeth whosoever seeketh Him. He, verily, loveth the one that turneth towards Him. There is none other God but Him, the Forgiving, the Most Bountiful. All praise be to God, the Lord of all worlds."

That in itself is not something I agree with.

 

[YoursTrue]

Baha'i and Judaism also share a lot in their views about God.
I also believe that what the Old Testament says about God is true, but I wanted to limit this to the New Testament since it is the Baha'is and Christians who are so often in disagreement.

One caveat I will add: I do not believe that the anthropomorphic characterizations of God in the Old Testament are true.

Christianity is not the "baby of Judaism."

 

[Trailblazer]

That in itself is not something I agree with.

What parts do you disagree with and why?

 

[Trailblazer]

Christianity is not the "baby of Judaism."

No, it isn't. It is an entirely new religion, based upon the NT.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, at least you're honest

Yes, and sometimes to a fault.

 

[YoursTrue]

Well, at least you're honest

Yes, I notice @Trailblazer can be honest in her replies. Even if I think she believes false inspired utterances. Just as she disagrees with my beliefs as well. Hi, Trailblazer!

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, I notice @Trailblazer can be honest in her replies. Even if I think she believes false inspired utterances. Just as she disagrees with my beliefs as well. Hi, Trailblazer!

I am not even sure what your beliefs are anymore.

 

[YoursTrue]

No, it isn't. It is an entirely new religion, based upon the NT.

Not exactly, Trailblazer. I'd like to go over that later because I have to do some research. For starters, though, I generally do not refer to the writings in the Bible as the New Testament but rather as the Christian Greek Scriptures.