What the New Testament says about God is true

[Trailblazer]

My feeling is still that no matter which religion, those that believe in it and apply the teachings of that religion, will get enough out of that religion to make it worthwhile to keep believing in it. It will seem as if it is true to them.'

I think that what matters is what God wants...
I do not think that God wants anyone to believe in a religion just because it 'seems as if it is true to them.'

But, in a lot of cases, that means that religions that teach contradictory things can't be true. So, how can a Christian that feels the love of God and Jesus in their heart, believe that what a religion like the Baha'i Faith is true?

a Christian that feels the love of God and Jesus in their heart could believe that the Baha'i Faith is true if they were willing to relinquish the following Christian beliefs:

1) Jesus is God
2) Jesus is the only way to God
3) Jesus rose from the dead
4) Jesus is going to return to earth

I am a Baha'i who loves God and Jesus so I know it can be done.

The belief that Jesus rose from the dead is not a deal-breaker and I know Baha'is who believe that Jesus might have risen bodily.
Even if Jesus rose bodily, that would not mean that Baha'u'llah was not a Manifestation of God and the return of Christ. It would only mean that Jesus rose and walked around earth for a while and then ascended to heaven.

Like salvation depends on the story of Adam being literally true... that there was a serpent, a garden and a forbidden fruit. And because Adam took a bite, God cured the Earth and sin entered the world. That makes it so all people are born into sin. They can't do anything about that. Without Jesus, they will die as hopelessly lost sinners.

No, salvation does not depend on the story of Adam and Eve being literally true, and all Christians do not believe that it is literally true, not anymore. The only thing that is necessary to believe to believe in salvation is that Jesus died for our sins, and Baha'is believe that.

But, the good news, Jesus paid the price for their sins. All they got to do is accept the free gift of salvation and declare that Jesus is Lord. And then most Christian Churches want their people to declare that Jesus is also God. And even though they have Jesus and the Holy Spirit in their heart, Satan, the devil, is still trying to deceive them and get them to doubt.

How can a person that believes those kinds of things ever believe in Baha'u'llah? They are told that it is Jesus, himself, that is coming back.

No, a person cannot believe all those things and still believe in Baha'u'llah.
They cannot believe that Jesus is the only way to God, or that Jesus is going to return to earth and still believe the claims of Baha'u'llah.

And then Paul says, that if they are still alive when he comes back, they will be taken up into the air to meet Jesus. So, what do some Christians make of that? They say, "yes" we will be "raptured" away into the sky.

I do not know what most Christians think of that, but I have a neighbor who is waiting for that to happen. When he told me that I did not say anything, I just listened.

 

[Sumadji]

Post them all, I have read them all numerous times, it is Your frame of reference that is the issue.

It is YOU insulting God. Muhammad and Jesus are both Messengers Annointed of God. I decided to call you and all Christians out on their blind deception of Muhammad.

Suck it up, you get a chance to be well informed about the Message of Muhammad or remain in ignorance. The whole world has this chance. Ignorance breeds predudices.

Look at what religious ignorance and prejudices are currently producing. Instead of love thy neighbours, it is hate the others that's also say they beleive in God, hate them because their name is not our name in faith.

Regards Tony

Read the scriptures you cherry pick from. Then come back and try to have a proper discussion, instead of pasting from your cult literature

 

[Trailblazer]

Thanks. God meets us where we are.

I believe He does.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

. . . Muhammadanism is not only the last of the world religions, but a fuller Revelation than any one preceding it. The Qur'án is not only more authoritative than any previous religious gospel, but it contains also much more ordinances, teachings and precepts, which taken together constitute a fuller Revelation of God's purpose and law to mankind than Christianity, Judaism or any other previous Dispensation. This view is in complete accord with the Bahá’í philosophy of progressive revelation, and should be thoroughly accepted and taught by every loyal Christian Bahá’í.[

Thanks. I never read that quote. That is quite a statement.
Can you please cite a link to that statement above so I can see where Shoghi Effendi stated that?

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, April 27, 1936)

Lights of Guidance/Islám - Bahaiworks, a library of works about the Bahá’í Faith

bahai.works

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Read the scriptures you cherry pick from. Then come back and try to have a proper discussion, instead of pasting from your cult literature

Your use of cult indicates your ignorance and predudices of other God given religions.

You offer many accusations and know nothing of what anyone may have or not have read and studied, unless they told you. I also will not offer to you any of that information, as it is not relative to the knowledge of the Spirit.

We must live in the Spirit

Romans 8:5 "Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God..."

Regards Tony

 

[Spice]

Those that are reflected in the Message of Baha'u'llah.

Reincarnation, that offers we will return to this existence after death in any shape or form, are not reflected in the Message of Baha’u’llah and as such are not original teachings of a Messenger from God.

Regards Tony

So, are you saying that the only older messages that are true, are those that Baha'u'llah agreed with?

Did God change?

 

[YoursTrue]

Post them all, I have read them all numerous times, it is Your frame of reference that is the issue.

It is YOU insulting God. Muhammad and Jesus are both Messengers Annointed of God. I decided to call you and all Christians out on their blind deception of Muhammad.

Suck it up, you get a chance to be well informed about the Message of Muhammad or remain in ignorance. The whole world has this chance. Ignorance breeds predudices.

Look at what religious ignorance and prejudices are currently producing. Instead of love thy neighbours, it is hate the others that's also say they beleive in God, hate them because their name is not our name in faith.

Regards Tony

I think it is that attitude from which wars can be started, Tony.

 

[Spice]

I think that what matters is what God wants...
I do not think that God wants anyone to believe in a religion just because it 'seems as if it is true to them.'

I believe He does. That's the whole point behind believing "God meets us where we are." If one gives themselves to faith, then God has the open heart to work with. That's all He requires of us - to open our hearts fully and let the Spirit work within.

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe He does. That's the whole point behind believing "God meets us where we are." If one gives themselves to faith, then God has the open heart to work with. That's all He requires of us - to open our hearts fully and let the Spirit work within.

I believe what I said before, but I also believe that "God meets us where we are."

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So, are you saying that the only older messages that are true, are those that Baha'u'llah agreed with?

Did God change?

Your question reflected you are intent on restricting of the answer. By asking the second question, that set the mindset you wanted to pursue. If one only wants to take a shallow look when asking such a question, one will get a shallow view from any answer given.

Baha'u'llah offers the answer to your second question.

"...This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future. Let him that seeketh, attain it; and as to him that hath refused to seek it ..."

So God does not change, that is why the Revelations did not stop with Jesus and Muhammad.

I see Baha'u'llah, as a Messenger from God, the one promised foe the end of ages, has confirmed what is true in all past faiths, and what is most likely erroneous, added by men, who are pursing their own interests and agenda's. Just as Muhammad did in the Revelation of the Quran.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I think it is that attitude from which wars can be started, Tony.

Being well informed about the divine origin of a Messenger is not the cause of wars, it is the cause of Love and Peace.

It is ignorance and predudices that are the causes of war. Those fighting wars at the moment are steeped in centuries of buold up prejudices.

Regards Tony

 

[Spice]

Your question reflected you are intent on restricting of the answer. By asking the second question, that set the mindset you wanted to pursue. If one only wants to take a shallow look when asking such a question, one will get a shallow view from any answer given.

Baha'u'llah offers the answer to your second question.

"...This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future. Let him that seeketh, attain it; and as to him that hath refused to seek it ..."

So God does not change, that is why the Revelations did not stop with Jesus and Muhammad.

I see Baha'u'llah, as a Messenger from God, the one promised foe the end of ages, has confirmed what is true in all past faiths, and what is most likely erroneous, added by men, who are pursing their own interests and agenda's. Just as Muhammad did in the Revelation of the Quran.

Regards Tony

Okay, so you don't see God as changing, good.

And, I really am trying to understand the Baha'i view. I've found it so different here on RF than what I knew from another religious forum ten years ago.

So if God hasn't changed, why have the mystics been incorrect on reincarnation? Why are any of the messages of other ages not also true for this age?

You stated: "Reincarnation, that offers we will return to this existence after death in any shape or form, are not reflected in the Message of Baha’u’llah and as such are not original teachings of a Messenger from God."

There appears to be quite a bit of circular reasoning happening. It would be much more believable if Baha'is just said clear and to the point, all previous messages have been wrong.

Do you see the confusion?

 

[Eli G]

The only true and living God is the one who created the first human couple, who they later disobeyed Him. This God brought a Flood to the world and saved a married couple and their three children along with their wives to repopulate the earth.

This same God scattered humanity across the globe (in Babel times) and later chose a man named Abram, from whose descendants the means of salvation would come, promised during the original human rebellion (Gen. 3:15). Thus, the nation of Israel emerged from Abraham, whom God called from his land and promised a rich territory to his descendants, making them His chosen people.

That very God gave them laws and formed them into a nation. Despite this, they rebelled, mistreated His prophets, and ultimately killed His own Son sent from heaven. The same God made His Son's teachings spread across the world, forming a new people who would inhabit the earth after its future cleansing.

To show that humans could only approach Him through His Son, God resurrected Jesus and allowed Him to appear to His disciples for 40 days until they saw Him ascend to heaven. Jesus mentioned signs that would indicate His future return to judge the earth, as He was chosen by the Creator as Judge and King of the coming system.

Thus, we have the complete testimony of the Creator up to our days. There is no other God, nor any messenger of God but Jesus. God does not change His words based on some supposed new messenger. He is not a human, and what He said in Genesis 3:15 is fulfilled in Jesus. What He promised Abraham is also fulfilled in Jesus.

God is not found in the thousands of religions and sects of the world. He is not ecumenical, and He will soon send His Son from heaven to judge the world.

 

[Spice]

I think it is that attitude from which wars can be started, Tony.

You are correct that "perceived" disrespect of Mohammad has indeed caused war-like actions.

 

[YoursTrue]

Being well informed about the divine origin of a Messenger is not the cause of wars, it is the cause of Love and Peace.

It is ignorance and predudices that are the causes of war. Those fighting wars at the moment are steeped in centuries of buold up prejudices.

Regards Tony

Nevertheless, and you are right in that prejudices and hatred build up over time. The Bible, however, says that God will stop all wars. I look forward to that time and I hope you would, too.
Isaiah 2:4: "They shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more"

 

[YoursTrue]

Being well informed about the divine origin of a Messenger is not the cause of wars, it is the cause of Love and Peace.

It is ignorance and predudices that are the causes of war. Those fighting wars at the moment are steeped in centuries of buold up prejudices.

Regards Tony

Interesting point in that some perceive some others words and classify them as "fightin' words."

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Okay, so you don't see God as changing, good.

And, I really am trying to understand the Baha'i view. I've found it so different here on RF than what I knew from another religious forum ten years ago.

So if God hasn't changed, why have the mystics been incorrect on reincarnation? Why are any of the messages of other ages not also true for this age?

You stated: "Reincarnation, that offers we will return to this existence after death in any shape or form, are not reflected in the Message of Baha’u’llah and as such are not original teachings of a Messenger from God."

There appears to be quite a bit of circular reasoning happening. It would be much more believable if Baha'is just said clear and to the point, all previous messages have been wrong.

Do you see the confusion?

The confusion arise when we do not immerse ourselves in all the Words given by God.

The teachings about Reincarnation, would have sound teachings given by a Messengers in the past. After the passing of that Messenger, the beleivers come from different nature and nurture perspectives. Thus teachings born from men's minds slowly but surely change the meaning of the original underlying principles. The Trinity is a more recent example.

Baha'u'llah (and Abdu'l-Baha) explain that any reference to the return of past ages, is that of the spiritual attributes. Thus when Jesus said that John the Baptist was Elijah, Jesus was saying that the attributes of Elijah returned in John the Baptist, and these attributes (of Elijah) always come first to prepare the way. They also offer the souls of those that have passed, do not return to this existence. Thus Reincarnation as now beleived by many people, is not correct. Baha'u'llah has given to us what were the underlying principles, that were the essence of the original teachings.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Nevertheless, and you are right in that prejudices and hatred build up over time. The Bible, however, says that God will stop all wars. I look forward to that time and I hope you would, too.
Isaiah 2:4: "They shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more"

That is the goal of all True Faith.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Interesting point in that some perceive some others words and classify them as "fightin' words."

Thus the bounty of us adopting a universal world language, so misunderstandings can be reduced.

Regards Tony

 

[YoursTrue]

Thus the bounty of us adopting a universal world language, so misunderstandings can be reduced.

Regards Tony

I concur that one day all mankind will likely speak one language.