What the New Testament says about God is true

[CG Didymus]

The true God, Jehovah, promised to enthrone a descendant of David, from the line of Judah, of Israel through Isaac... not some illegitimate usurper from some other lineage... if anyone refers to the true God and his promises, because there are millions of false and invented gods.

Yeah, there will be wars and rumors of wars... but that is not yet the end. Oops, for Baha'is that means we could have had peace but we rejected Baha'u'llah and now there will be more wars and rumors of wars and no peace until we do recognize him as the return of Christ.

BahaUllah is not a descendant of David, so he is NOT that Prince that Jehovah promised.

Baha'i authors, like we can trust them, traced the Baha'i prophet all the way back to Abraham? While they might as well go back to Noah. And from there back to Adam and Eve. And we can all trace ourselves back to them.

I'm not sure, but I think I'm related to Shem on his mother's side of her second cousin. Which connects me to the sister of one of the wives of Solomon on her second husband's uncle's side. Which makes me related to John the Baptist's neighbor.

Yeah, I can imagine that convoluted family tree those Baha'i authors invented. Like who kept records from Abraham to David to Baha'u'llah? And as if the Baha'is believe those stories literally.

But, as always, if the Bahai's say it is true... it is. But with something like this there should be verifiable proof. And if there isn't?

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you know the difference between the origin of the Jews and the origin of the Arabs?

What difference would it make if I did?

1559. Bahá’u’lláh was a Descendent of Abraham Through Both Katurah and Sarah—Jesse, Son of Sarah, was the Father of David and Ancestor of Bahá’u’lláh

"Regarding your question concerning the Jesse from whom Bahá’u’lláh is descended: The Master says in 'Some Answered Questions', referring to Isaiah, chapter 11, verses 1 to 10, that these verses apply 'Word for word to Bahá’u’lláh'. He then identifies this Jesse as the father of David in the following words: '…for Joseph was of the descendants of Jesse the father of David…', thus identifying the Jesse of Isaiah, chapter 11, with being the father of David. Bahá’u’lláh is thus the descendant of Jesse, the father of David.

"The Guardian hopes that this will clarify the matter for you. It is a tremendous and fascinating theme, Bahá’u’lláh's connection with the Faith of Judaism, and one which possesses great interest to Jew and Christian alike." (From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, July 11, 1942)

Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 62-66

Genealogy of Baha’u’llah Bahá'í Library Online


"This rod out of the stem of Jesse might be correctly applied to Christ, for Joseph was of the descendants of Jesse, the father of David; but as Christ found existence through the Spirit of God, He called Himself the Son of God. If He had not done so, this description would refer to Him. Besides this, the events which he indicated as coming to pass in the days of that rod, if interpreted symbolically, were in part fulfilled in the day of Christ, but not all; and if not interpreted, then decidedly none of these signs happened. For example, the leopard and the lamb, the lion and the calf, the child and the asp, are metaphors and symbols for various nations, peoples, antagonistic sects and hostile races, who are as opposite and inimical as the wolf and lamb. We say that by the breath of the spirit of Christ they found concord and harmony, they were vivified, and they associated together."

Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 62-66

 

[Trailblazer]

Demonstrate without anyone's words that any thing but humans have done anything relevant to human war, ever.

I never said that anyone but humans have done anything relevant to human war.

 

[CG Didymus]

Demonstrate without anyone's words that any thing but humans have done anything relevant to human war, ever.

And what about God's instructions to go into battle and kill those horrible people that believe in false gods? But I know, it was for a good cause. Once God got his people to kill all the evil people we could all live in peace.

But wait, God's people are fighting some of the other people that Baha'is say are also God's people.

 

[Eli G]

If the promised Messiah was to be descended from a Persian, why does Scripture not mention anyone in the official genealogy of the Messiah from that area at all? Why do the inspired writings focus on Israel, the people to whom the true God gave his laws to keep them separate from the rest of the world until the coming of the Messiah?

All false claimants to thrones invent fictitious genealogies to secure some legal right where the rulership depends on the dynasty. It is evident that there can be no Messiah of Jehovah who was not a legitimate Jew(-ish) descendant of David.

Furthermore, what right do the Bahais have to appropriate prophecies from a book which they disqualify as the inspired Word of God?

To the Samaritans, who were much more closely related locally, historically and genealogically to the Jews, Jesus said:

John 4:21 Jesus said to her: “Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews. 23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.”

 

[Trailblazer]

Christ was not prophesied to return to Jerusalem.

18. Lightning from the East

I now began an earnest search for clues that would tell me something about the place in which the Messiah would appear. Two interesting things came to light. For the first coming, Daniel had given the time and Micah had given the place. Daniel had prophesied exactly when the Messiah would appear the first time and when He would be slain. Micah had said of the place: “But thou, Bethlehem … out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel.”(Micah 5:2)

Daniel had also prophesied with even greater exactness the time of the second coming of the Messiah in 1844 (see p. 20). Therefore, I turned to Micah for a possible clue as to the place of His second appearance. I was richly rewarded. In Micah 7:7 and 12 I found:

“I will wait for the God of my salvation … In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria …” (Micah 7:7, 12)

The Assyrian Empire at one time covered the entire area in which both Daniel and Micah lived out their lives. Therefore, I chose to study those parts of the Empire, in which these two prophets traditionally lived and taught. To my surprise, I found that there were many other clues to follow as well. Gradually one led to another, until a definite picture began to emerge, and I knew at least in which direction to turn my gaze.

The book of Ezekiel spoke of a great Figure who would come in those days. He said: “And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east.” (Ezekiel 43:2)

This was clearly a reference to the second coming of Christ and not the first, for Jesus did not come from the way of the East, He came from north and west of Jerusalem. Isaiah in like manner spoke of the wondrous Figure who would come from the East. Isaiah said that it was God Himself Who had “… raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings.” (Isaiah 41:2) Even Christ Himself pointed to the direction from which He would appear in the day of His second coming. Speaking of that day, He said: “For as the lightning cometh out of the East … so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”(Matthew 24:27)

The Jewish Oracles, the Sibylline books, prophesied that the ‘King Messiah’ of the time of the end would come ‘from the sunrise’.(The Messianic Idea in Israel, J. G. Klausner, 1956, p. 376). Daniel had written his words of millennial prophecy while in the East. In fact, he was in Elam, a part of ancient Persia, when he foretold with such startling accuracy the exact time of both the first and the second comings of Christ. It was in the capital city of Persia, Shúshán, (Ancient Susa, Khúzistán, south-west Írán) that Daniel had the prophetic vision that revealed the year 1844 as the time for the return of the Messiah. Daniel not only gave the time 1844, but he also directed attention to the place, saying that ‘Elam’ (Persia) would be given as a place of ‘vision’ in the latter days (Daniel 8:2). The Prophet Jeremiah speaks of things that ‘shall come to pass in the latter days’ and in the verse preceding this, he says: “And I will set my throne in Elam (Persia) … saith the Lord.”(Jeremiah 49:38). I came across a prophecy well known among the Arabs. Speaking of the time of the end, it said:“When the promised One appears, the ‘upholders of His faith shall be the people of Persia.’”(The Dawn-breakers, Nabíl, p. 49). All these prophecies clearly showed that the Messiah would come from the East, and they put a strong emphasis on the territory of Persia. It was something definite to go on. The circle was narrowing.

(William Sears, Thief in the Night, pp. 73-75)

https://bahai-library.com/pdf/s/sears_thief_night.pdf

Daniel 8:2 And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of Ulai.

The Throne was set in Elam, not in Jerusalem, as many Christians believe.

The Lord was prophesied to set His throne in Elam, from which the Messiah would rule.
Elam is modern-day Persia, where Baha’u’llah was born.

Jeremiah 49:38 And I will set my throne in Elam, and will destroy from thence the king and the princes, saith the LORD.

When that verse was recorded Elam existed and the verses for the coming of the Lord refer to the latter days.

Jeremiah 49:39 But it shall come to pass in the latter days, that I will bring again the captivity of Elam, saith the LORD.

 

[Trailblazer]

1. The king from the sunrise

Bahá’u’lláh came from Persia, which is to the East of Israel, but to the west of India. His ministry from the time of its beginning until his last days on earth was forty years. The prophets of Syria and Palestine foretold the coming of the promised Messiah from the East. The prophets and seers from India and the Far East, said that he would appear in the West. Persia, the birthplace of Bahá’u’lláh lies in between these two, and fulfils the requirements of each.

In the book of Enoch, it is prophesied that the Messiah of the last days shall come from the East of Israel, and that He shall come from the land now known as Persia. Enoch foretells:“And in those days the angels will assemble, and turn their heads towards the East, toward the people of Parthia and Medea, in order to excite the kings, and that a spirit of disturbance came over them, and disturbed them from off their thrones.” (Enoch 56:5). Parthia and Medea make up what is now the land of Persia, the birthplace of Bahá’u’lláh. The Jewish oracles, the Sibylline books, also mention the coming of the Messiah from the East, saying:

“And then from the sunrise God shall send a king who shall give every land relief from the bane of war … nor shall he do these things by his own counsel, but in obedience to the good ordinances of the Mighty God.” (cited in The Messianic idea in Israel, p. 376).

Joseph Klausner, in The Messianic idea in Israel, writes: “The ‘king from the sunrise’ is, without any doubt, the King-Messiah.”

The prophet Ezekiel also foretold that the Messiah would come to the Holy Land, Israel, from the East. He even gave the title by which He would be known in that day: The Glory of God [or the Glory of the Lord]. Ezekiel recorded his vision of the last days, saying:“And behold, the Glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east…” (Ezekiel 43:2).
In another place, Ezekiel says: “And the Glory of the Lord came into the house by way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east.”(Ezekiel 43:4).

I had already learned that the name Bahá’u’lláh was Persian, and when translated into English means, The Glory of God or The Glory of the Lord.His herald was called the Báb. This is also Persian, and translated into English means, The Gate.

The Báb was the Gate by which Bahá’u’lláh, the Glory of God, entered into the hearts of men. Bahá’u’lláh had come to Israel in exile from Persia which is to the East. I was more than satisfied by my findings. I learned that Bahá’u’lláh had completed the prophesies of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Micah, Zoroaster, Buddha, Muhammad, and many secular prophesies as well—all of which pointed to the time and the place from which the Shepherd of the day of the ‘one fold’ would come.

I marked the first proof: Fulfilled.

(William Sears, Thief in the Night, pp. 109-111)

https://bahai-library.com/pdf/s/sears_thief_night.pdf

 

[CG Didymus]

Do you know the difference between the origin of the Jews and the origin of the Arabs?

Again, as if Baha'is are going to take the story in the Bible literally? And if you're referring to Ishmael and Isaac, the Baha'is believe the Bible story is wrong. They say it was Ishmael taken by Abraham to be sacrificed.

Now after that if they have Ishmael going to Arabia, begetting some kids there. And some of his kids went off to Persia and hung out there until some descendance of David somehow ended up in Persia and did some begetting. And low and behold the guy that took the title of Baha'u'llah, got begetted.

Oh, is Baha'u'llah on the throne of David? That must be figuratively... But the ancestry, that literal.

Unbelievable how many things the Baha'is invent to try and make their guy the return of Christ. Trouble is... they have to do the same thing with the Buddha and with Krishna. And they do.

I can't wait to see the genealogy they have going back to Krishna and the Buddha. Somehow Baha'u'llah is everybody that was ever promised to return and solve the world's problems and bring peace.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

“As the embodied soul continually passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change.“ Bhagavad-gita 2.13

Bible supports this in as a release from the physical to spiritual body. A self-realised soul understands this existence is a matrix we are born from into tye spiritual worlds of God.

We do not re-enter the womb of this material world.

Likewise all quotes are addressed in a new frame of reference. Baha'u'llah has given a lot more clearer answers as to the journey of the soul.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

If the promised Messiah was to be descended from a Persian, why does Scripture not mention anyone in the official genealogy of the Messiah from that area at all?

“I will wait for the God of my salvation … In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria …” (Micah 7:7, 12)

Well, that settles it. This guy, William Sears, found all these indisputable proofs... verse after verse taken out of context and interpreted by him to point directly at Baha'u'llah.

By taking it from a different translation, NIV, and adding a verse before and after, changes everything...

Micah 7:11 The day for building your walls will come,​

the day for extending your boundaries.​

12 In that day people will come to you​

from Assyria and the cities of Egypt,​

even from Egypt to the Euphrates​

and from sea to sea​

and from mountain to mountain.​

13 The earth will become desolate because of its inhabitants,​

as the result of their deeds.​

​

So, when was this day for "building" walls? I don't know. Maybe the Baha'is know.

But it is in "that" day the "people" in the NIV or the "he" like the KJV says, will come to you. Is it "he" or "people"?

But what does all this mean? The earth will become "desolate"? I really don't know what's going on.

But... not to worry William Sears knows. That is he knows what verse twelve means... That is... what verse twelve means when translated by the KJV people. And Bill Sears knows for sure that they translated it correctly? And then, by taking only that one verse, that he is interpreting it correctly?

"Thief in the Night" Is a great book... For Baha'is. Kind of meaningless and full of $&%# for Christians.

 

[CG Didymus]

Bible supports this in as a release from the physical to spiritual body. A self-realised soul understands this existence is a matrix we are born from into tye spiritual worlds of God.

We do not re-enter the womb of this material world.

Likewise all quotes are addressed in a new frame of reference. Baha'u'llah has given a lot more clearer answers as to the journey of the soul.

Regards Tony

Well the NT seems to support that some souls go to heaven and some go to hell. But Baha'is don't believe that.

And then what about those verses from the Bhagavad-gita? True or false? The truth from Krishna? Or a false, made up story by people? Or just a misinterpretation of what Krishna said?

For me, I don't see what the big deal is. It is the soul that is put into a body in both religions. With reincarnation, the soul is put into more than one body. That way it experience life from another perspective. Maybe one time rich... another time poor. One time a woman.... another time a man.

With the Baha'is, the soul only gets one chance to experience things as a human being. Then gets judged by how well they did and gets placed in some spiritual world according to how they did. Then... still gets to progress in that spiritual world.

The Earth and living life as a human is a perfect training ground. Why not send the soul back again and again until they learn everything they need to know to move on?

Why do Baha'is have to be so sure they have it right? Of course, it is because you believe you are absolutely right. Because Baha'u'llah said so.

Which means Hinduism and Buddhism are wrong. Again, when did they go wrong? What were these mysterious "original" teachings?

Why can't that just be the beliefs of those people in India. It made sense to them. They have their Gods and incarnations of those Gods and sages and gurus that told them these things and they believe it. And you, and other people in Abrahamic religions have different beliefs.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But what does all this mean? The earth will become "desolate"? I really don't know what's going on.

12 In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.

13 Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.

When Baha'u'llah arrived Akka was so desolate and dilapidated that a tradition stated when birds flew over they would drop dead. That is Mt Carmel in 1894

14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.

Wow, in the midst of Carmel we now have this.



15 According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.

That is 40 Years, the length of Baha’u’llah's Revelation from Vision in 1852, to passing.

Just imagine if Christians had so much prophecy that could be attributed to Jesus! Four things in just 4 verses.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Well the NT seems to support that some souls go to heaven and some go to hell. But Baha'is don't believe that.

We do CG, just with knew understanding that these are not physical places, they are spiritual realities, closeness to God = Heaven, remoteness from God = hell.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But what does all this mean? The earth will become "desolate"? I really don't know what's going

Another of Abdul'baha in 1920.


Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.

@CG Didymus Also consider "let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old."

Begin with the village | Baha'i Faith Articles

The Bahá’í teachings offer a theoretical approach to rural development. It is meant to be tested in the real world and adapted accordingly.

www.upliftingwords.org

Abdul'baha brought a village in 1901, 930 acres and gave 230 acres away. On this he started farms. (See story link above)

It was the food from those farms that fed many people through the First World War and then the British Army at the end of the war, and the reason Abdul'baha was bestowed the title of a Knight of the British Empire.

Lots people are yet to find out about the amount of work and businesses that Abdul'baha was involved in. He assisted many Baha'i in setting up businesses.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

With the Baha'is, the soul only gets one chance to experience things as a human being. Then gets judged by how well they did and gets placed in some spiritual world according to how they did. Then... still gets to progress in that spiritual world.

Why should a soul get more than one chance? The Messengers of God had revealed how we are supposed to live and everyone has an equal opportunity to read the scriptures. This is fair, and if their life is cut short there will be a recompense from God.

The Earth and living life as a human is a perfect training ground. Why not send the soul back again and again until they learn everything they need to know to move on?

This this world is a dark and narrow place full of suffering so why would a loving and merciful God send anyone back here to re-experience it?

Why do Baha'is have to be so sure they have it right? Of course, it is because you believe you are absolutely right. Because Baha'u'llah said so.

Why do you have to always make it about Baha'is being right? It is not about being right. We simply believe what we believe, just as Christians and Jews and Muslims and other religious folks believe what they believe.

 

[Sumadji]

It is YOU insulting God. Muhammad and Jesus are both Messengers Annointed of God. I decided to call you and all Christians out on their blind deception of Muhammad.

Suck it up, you get a chance to be well informed about the Message of Muhammad or remain in ignorance. The whole world has this chance. Ignorance breeds predudices.

Oh no, my problem is not with Islam or with Muhammad (pbuh). My problem is with the internet Bahai’s who try to impose the Quran upon the New Testament, and try to make the two scriptures compatible, or to try to present the Quran as updating and informing the NT, neither of which they appear to have actually read.

I respect Islam as an independent belief that around two billion people adhere to. As I respect Buddhism and Christianity and other world religions. I do not respect that internet Baha’i are in a position to inform Christians or anyone else about Muhammad (pbuh) or Jesus, or that I am insulting God because I do not accept the Baha’i position of owning the inerrant truth for the simple reason that Baha’u’llah said so.

Christianity, Judaism and Islam are independent religions which, although they cross in certain areas, are essentially self-contained and requiring no updating by Bahai’s in the attempt to convince people of their progressive revelation. That in simple fact is the Baha'i attempt to replace Jesus with Baha'u'llah as the new Christ, and to replace all previous world scriptures with the Baha'i writings as the only true guidance for the entire human race, at least for the rest of the millennium until another messenger comes along.

Won't happen, even if they do get their war.

@TransmutingSoul I'm not really even talking to you, but to other people who read the thread, because I know there is no chance of having a proper discussion with you

 

[YoursTrue]

You are free to believe that it will be Christ's Kingdom, but Baha'is believe it will be Baha'u'llah's kingdom.

Baha'is believe that Baha’u’llah was the Prince of Peace and the Lord of hosts and that world peace will be established during His religious dispensation, which will last no less than 1000 years (from 1852 AD).

Please note that the prophecy does not say 'when' peace will be established. It says that it will increase which means it will unfold over time. Where it says there shall be no end to the peace means that the world will become more and more peaceful over time. The same is true for the government. It says that there shall be 'no end' to the government which means it will begin and be established gradually and continue to develop over time. The government will be more developed in the future as the prophecy says (increase in government).

Baha’u’llah set up a 'system of government' and it has already been established among the Baha’is. The institutions of that government are fully operational, but still in their infancy. What we now refer to as Local Spiritual assemblies (LSAs) and will eventually evolve into what will be called Houses of Justice.

Baha'is believe that verse means that God will set up a kingdom through Baha'u'llah, and that kingdom will never be destroyed.
It will put an end to all other kingdoms and it will last forever.

Just as a curiosity, going over your post there, do Bahai's believe that Bahaullah transmigrated from person to person until he reached a certain status as Bahaullah?

 

[YoursTrue]

Why should a soul get more than one chance? The Messengers of God had revealed how we are supposed to live and everyone has an equal opportunity to read the scriptures. This is fair, and if their life is cut short there will be a recompense from God.

This this world is a dark and narrow place full of suffering so why would a loving and merciful God send anyone back here to re-experience it?

Why do you have to always make it about Baha'is being right? It is not about being right. We simply believe what we believe, just as Christians and Jews and Muslims and other religious folks believe what they believe.

Can they all be "right"? Yes, wars are fought over ideology and lack of concern for others lives, so again -- with all the contrary beliefs to wonder which religion is "right" is a legitimate question -- for some, of course. Maybe Bahai's don't care or wonder about it, I don't know, since you are a member of that religion, maybe you can explain. Although you do think, with all respect towards you, that Bahaullah was right, don't you, in his assertions? Or -- maybe you don't know -- ??

 

[Dimi95]

Don't they teach you to first look into your own backyard before talking about your neighbour's?