What the New Testament says about God is true

[Trailblazer]

Just as a curiosity, going over your post there, do Bahai's believe that Bahaullah transmigrated from person to person until he reached a certain status as Bahaullah?

No, Baha'is do not believe that.
Baha'is believe that the soul of Baha'u'llah preexisted in the spiritual world before His birth in this world.
The same applies to Christ and the other Prophets.

(96) PRE-EXISTENCE - of Prophets
The Prophets, unlike us, are pre-existent. The soul of Christ existed in the spiritual world before His birth in this world. We cannot imagine what that world is like, so words are inadequate to picture His state of being.
(Shoghi Effendi: High Endeavors, Page: 71)

 

[Sumadji]

Baha'u'llah never claimed to be Christ, only the fulfillment of the return of Christ as promised in the Bible.

Right ...

 

[Trailblazer]

Can they all be "right"? Yes, wars are fought over ideology and lack of concern for others lives, so again -- with all the contrary beliefs to wonder which religion is "right" is a legitimate question -- for some, of course. Maybe Bahai's don't care or wonder about it, I don't know, since you are a member of that religion, maybe you can explain. Although you do think, with all respect towards you, that Bahaullah was right, don't you, in his assertions? Or -- maybe you don't know -- ??

I believe that Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God, a Messenger of God, so I believe He was right, since God cannot be wrong.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I call Baha'is out all the time about being insulting to Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, Jews and even Muslims. I've seen what Link and Firedragon have said.

The Message contains what you see as insults....yet....I see those same words as Love for all Faiths and for all humanity.

You thus call me out for having no predudices against religion or people's, but for embracing a Message that I see will ultimately unite all humanity, for that to happen, the Councels of the Most High, must be embraced.

So, there it is. If I post on RF, which comes and goes, I will be on the side of championing the Councels of the Pen of the Most High. At least the 98% that are on the opposing team will have some great fodder to debate, keeping it all honest and above board.

Let's bring out all these predudices for the world to see, not hidden behind closed doors.

Maybe the more they are displayed, the more people will see how erroneous they are?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Oh I understand what you are saying. Your contention is their problems with Christians, not Christianity. I understand what you say.

Brother. I am no Bahai. I have interacted with Bahais in this forum for a long long time. Many years. I have many conundrums with them. But "enemy number one" is not one of their features. I promise you that. Yet again. that's my view.

Always happy to exchange conversations, always happy to have a big hug at the end with no hard feelings.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

The Baha'i on this forum make it clear their problem is Christians of all types, from Catholics to evangelical to JW. I'm not saying some types of Christians don't ask for it either.

The reason I have a problem with Christians is explained below.

The fundamental difference between Christians and Baha'is is that Christians believe that Jesus is the only one who has ever been sent by God and the only way to God, making Christianity the only true religion from God for all of eternity, and of course that means that the Baha'i Faith has to be false and Baha'u'llah has to be a false prophet in their eyes. I consider that Christian belief to be not only false but highly arrogant and I will speak out against it every chance I get.

In contrast to Christians, Baha'is believe in Divine Unity, as described in the following passage.
In the passage, the Manifestations of His Cause are the Messengers of God I often refer to.

“Beware, O believers in the Unity of God, lest ye be tempted to make any distinction between any of the Manifestations of His Cause, or to discriminate against the signs that have accompanied and proclaimed their Revelation. This indeed is the true meaning of Divine Unity, if ye be of them that apprehend and believe this truth. Be ye assured, moreover, that the works and acts of each and every one of these Manifestations of God, nay whatever pertaineth unto them, and whatsoever they may manifest in the future, are all ordained by God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Whoso maketh the slightest possible difference between their persons, their words, their messages, their acts and manners, hath indeed disbelieved in God, hath repudiated His signs, and betrayed the Cause of His Messengers.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 59-60

 

[Trailblazer]

Only God can change this world from the conditions we face now to a far better place where there is no more sin or suffering. That includes the Earth. Only God can and will make this world over and unlike Adam and Eve, will remove all obstacles to health and happiness.

Exactly how do you think that God is going to do that?

 

[firedragon]

@Sumadji

I just forgot to mention something. Some of the Bahais in this forum, very very few okay? I have found them absolutely dishonest and pretends to know Arabic and Pali but you know absolutely not even novices but just google artists. That's to me the worst kind of dishonesty. But in my heart I feel though they are dishonest in their attempt to do apologetics here, they are in their personal lives truly lovely people.

Also in all honesty, exactly 50% of the people I associated here are not even dishonest pretending to know languages they don't know. They are absolutely beautiful people my friend. I don't agree with them, and I think their theology is absolutely ridiculous just like maybe you might think is mine. But "Christians being enemy number one" is in my thoughts absolutely far from the Bahais' thinking.

Sorry I thought it's necessary that I said this. Cheers.

 

[Trailblazer]

The Message contains what you see as insults....yet....I see those same words as Love for all Faiths and for all humanity.

Indeed.

“Through each and every one of the verses which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed, the doors of love and unity have been unlocked and flung open to the face of men. We have erewhile declared—and Our Word is the truth—: “Consort with the followers of all religions in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship.” Whatsoever hath led the children of men to shun one another, and hath caused dissensions and divisions amongst them, hath, through the revelation of these words, been nullified and abolished. From the heaven of God’s Will, and for the purpose of ennobling the world of being and of elevating the minds and souls of men, hath been sent down that which is the most effective instrument for the education of the whole human race.”
(Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 95)

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 92-98

 

[Trailblazer]

I will point out that the constant barrage of attacks is on the Baha'is, not the Baha'is attacking others.
Baha'is are doing x, Baha'is are doing y, I am sick to death of reading these negative posts.

Disagreeing with certain Christian beliefs or beliefs of other religions on a debate forum is not an attack.
This is to be expected on a debate forum.

 

[Sumadji]

Jesus is the only one who has ever been sent by God and the only way to God,

Don't judge a book by it's cover. The meaning of the incarnation, life and death and resurrection and ascension of the Abrahamic Christ goes on to ever deeper levels, regardless of the noisy evangelical We Christians Club, or the shallow Baha'i interpretation of Jesus

 

[Spice]

The reason I have a problem with Christians is explained below.

The fundamental difference between Christians and Baha'is is that Christians believe that Jesus is the only one who has ever been sent by God and the only way to God, making Christianity the only true religion from God for all of eternity, and of course that means that the Baha'i Faith has to be false and Baha'u'llah has to be a false prophet in their eyes. I consider that Christian belief to be not only false but highly arrogant and I will speak out against it every chance I get.

But will the Christian belief stop you from having your belief?

A child in lower elementary school learns that 2 + 2 = 4. But they don't learn, at the same time at least, that the equation is worked in the 10th power, our decimal ststem. Nor that if you change the power to 3 the result is 16. It should not be necessary to "call them out" on what they do not yet know. They may never know it.

In the right tone, one can smile and congratulate them on their discovery of mathematics, encourage them to continue digging into what the world of mathematics has to offer, and wish them happiness. But remember, what they have learned IS correct.

In contrast to Christians, Baha'is believe in Divine Unity, as described in the following passage.
In the passage, the Manifestations of His Cause are the Messengers of God I often refer to.

Christians, too believe in Divine Unity. They believe everyone is encouraged and welcomed to accept Jesus as their Savior and enter the kingdom of heaven. Since Jesus brought that message first, is it canceled out? Why "can't" all be correct? At least for the believer.

As stated by M.Z. Bradley, "No one should ever mock the name by which another found God."

Namaste

 

[YoursTrue]

Exactly how do you think that God is going to do that?

He didn't tell me. I'm waiting to see and looking forward to it. I do know this, that He will ruin those who are ruining the earth. I know that because the Bible says so and -- it makes sense. Revelation 11 has some figurative language about what will happen--

"And the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their fces and worshiped God, 17saying:
“We give thanks to You, O Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,b
because You have taken Your great power
and have begun to reign.

18The nations were enraged,c
and Your wrath has come.
The time has come to judge the deadd
and to reward Your servants the prophets,
as well as the saints and those who fear Your name,
both small and great—
and to destroy those who destroy the earth.”

19Then the temple of God in heaven was opened, and the ark of His covenant appeared in His temple. And there were flashes of lightning, and rumblings, and peals of thunder, and an earthquake, and a great hailstorm."

Of course this is symbolic but true and yet to be fulfilled. Some of us are waiting -- looking forward. He (God) will take out every harmful thing from the Earth and universe. That's what the Bible says and that's what I believe.

 

[Trailblazer]

Don't judge a book by it's cover. The meaning of the incarnation, life and death and resurrection and ascension of the Abrahamic Christ goes on to ever deeper levels, regardless of the noisy evangelical We Christians Club, or the shallow Baha'i interpretation of Jesus

As everyone who knows me knows, I am a straight shooter. Are you denying that Christians believe that Jesus is the only one who has ever been sent by God and the only way to God? I have never known a Christian who denied believing that.

Can you explain the meaning of the incarnation, life and death and resurrection and ascension of the Abrahamic Christ which goes on to ever deeper levels?

Can you explain 'what you think' is the shallow Baha'i interpretation of Jesus?

 

[Sumadji]

As everyone who knows me knows, I am a straight shooter. Are you denying that Christians believe that Jesus is the only one who has ever been sent by God and the only way to God? I have never known a Christian who denied believing that.

Can you explain the meaning of the incarnation, life and death and resurrection and ascension of the Abrahamic Christ which goes on to ever deeper levels?

Can you explain 'what you think' is the shallow Baha'i interpretation of Jesus?

Bahá'í is a very wordy religion. Go deeper.

 

[Trailblazer]

But will the Christian belief stop you from having your belief?

No, but by the same token, will the Baha'i belief stop Christians from having their belief?

Christians, too believe in Divine Unity. They believe everyone is encouraged and welcomed to accept Jesus as their Savior and enter the kingdom of heaven. Since Jesus brought that message first, is it canceled out? Why "can't" all be correct? At least for the believer.

No, Christians do not believe in Divine Unity as it is taught by the Baha'i Faith.
With Christians, in order to enter the kingdom of heaven, it has to be by belief in Jesus.

Christians make a distinction between Jesus and all the other Messengers of God, who they say are all false.
Christians believe that Jesus is the only way to God and that is a fundamental teaching of Christianity.

By contrast, Baha'is believe that all the Messengers of God are of equal standing.

"Beware, O believers in the Unity of God, lest ye be tempted to make any distinction between any of the Manifestations of His Cause, or to discriminate against the signs that have accompanied and proclaimed their Revelation. This indeed is the true meaning of Divine Unity, if ye be of them that apprehend and believe this truth. Be ye assured, moreover, that the works and acts of each and every one of these Manifestations of God, nay whatever pertaineth unto them, and whatsoever they may manifest in the future, are all ordained by God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Whoso maketh the slightest possible difference between their persons, their words, their messages, their acts and manners, hath indeed disbelieved in God, hath repudiated His signs, and betrayed the Cause of His Messengers."

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 59-60

I love Jesus but I do not love Christianity, I do not even like it.

 

[Trailblazer]

Bahá'í is a very wordy religion. Go deeper.

And the New Testament is not wordy?

You did not answer either of my questions, instead you deflected.

I asked:
Can you explain the meaning of the incarnation, life and death and resurrection and ascension of the Abrahamic Christ which goes on to ever deeper levels?

Can you explain 'what you think' is the shallow Baha'i interpretation of Jesus?

What does that mean, go deeper?
I cannot guess what you are thinking and I won't even try to.
If you want to converse with me you will have to be a straight shooter.
Then again maybe that is not what you want.
Maybe you just want to take pot shots at the Baha'i Faith.

 

[Trailblazer]

He didn't tell me. I'm waiting to see and looking forward to it.

You can continue to wait with the other Christians, nobody is going to stop you.
I thank God that I have nothing to wait for.

I do know this, that He will ruin those who are ruining the earth. I know that because the Bible says so and -- it makes sense.

No, the Bible does not say that God will ruin those who are ruining the earth.
That is only your personal interpretation regarding what certain verses mean.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Well there you have it: the avenging armies of Baha'u'llah. The mask is dropped.

Armies of the Word, not the Sword.

Baha'u'llah said

"The aim of this Wronged One in sustaining woes and tribulations, in revealing the Holy Verses and in demonstrating proofs hath been naught but to quench the flame of hate and enmity, that the horizon of the hearts of men may be illumined with the light of concord and attain real peace and tranquillity.

The Enemy you face will embrace all in Love and Unity on a global scale.

"That one indeed is a man who, today, dedicateth himself to the service of the entire human race. The Great Being saith: Blessed and happy is he that ariseth to promote the best interests of the peoples and kindreds of the earth. In another passage He hath proclaimed: It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."

Regards Tony

 

[Spice]

I love Jesus but I do not love Christianity, I do not even like it.

But is it so terrible if it opens hearts to God?

I believe in the teachings of Jesus, but I also believe in, at least most of, the teachings of Buddha, and Confucius, Laozi, and Krishna, and even some of what I've read to date of Mohammad and Baha’u’llah. And I intend to continue to explore what the sages have had to say, Ovid, Lucretius, St. Frances and what modern "thinkers" have contemplated, Emerson, Nehru, Gandhi, Rabbi Freeman, and on and on and on. In all of this, the only thing I do not like is attempting to set boundaries on God. He speaks to all that take time to listen.

Namaste