What the New Testament says about God is true

[CG Didymus]

more erroneous than helpful.

Of course it is. Why would you, a possessor of the truth, care what I think?

 

[Trailblazer]

What are you apologising to me for? It's not my problem.

It is not my problem either.

 

[Trailblazer]

But you've said that no one can close your heart to the message of Baha'u'llah, and I know some who will never allow their heart to be closed to the message of Paul, on behalf of the teachings of Jesus. As long as those hearts are open by someone's words so the Spirit can work, all's good. Yes?

I guess I am different from you because I do not think it is good if their hearts are opened by someone who is teaching falsities.

 

[Spice]

I guess I am different from you because I do not think it is good if their hearts are opened by someone who is teaching falsities.

Because a less than stellar voice opens the heart, does not mean the Spirit cannot work with what is there. Sometimes, the heart is opened from disappointment, anger, frustration once that voice is received and dissected. Think of all the post-Christians who have found their fit. Christianity opened their heart for the exploration, and they found better.

Jesus's disciples were highly disappointed when Jesus died. He had opened their heart, but their understanding didn't match what they saw with their own eyes. Did he teach them falsehoods just because they misunderstood?

And then with (the story of) the Resurrection their frustration caused by the misunderstanding was appeased and the Holy Ghost came upon them at Pentecost.

So what's false? The message or the understanding of the message?

 

[Trailblazer]

So what's false? The message or the understanding of the message?

I think it is the understanding of the message that is false, although I also think that some messages such as from Paul are false.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Or... it's making a person a believer in what their religion actually tells them to do.

Did Jesus fulfill the Bible prophecies about the Messiah? I think Jews have some good reasons to believe he didn't.

Is Jesus the only way. Is it only through him we can be saved? I think that's exactly what the NT is saying.

Are all religions one? Yeah, if a person wants to believe in how the Baha'i Faith interprets things.

The exact questions we need to clarify for our own selves CG.

Do we really want the answers? I know I desire those answers, even if a loose my way at times.

Regards Tony

 

[Spice]

I think it is the understanding of the message that is false, although I also think that some messages such as from Paul are false.

Yeah, IMO Paul took things a bit wack-a-doodle, but without his participation it's rather doubtful we would have ever heard Jesus's message. Hillel taught much the same, but how vastly has his work been known?

 

[YoursTrue]

You can continue to wait with the other Christians, nobody is going to stop you.
I thank God that I have nothing to wait for.

No, the Bible does not say that God will ruin those who are ruining the earth.
That is only your personal interpretation regarding what certain verses mean.

I'm afraid you're not reading it properly. Notice the last line please.
Revelation 11

We give thanks to You, O Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because You have taken Your great power
and have begun to reign

18The nations were enraged,

and Your wrath has come.

The time has come to judge the dead
and to reward Your servants the prophets,
as well as the saints and those who fear Your name,
both small and great—

and to destroy those who destroy the earth.”

 

[Spice]

I'm afraid you're not reading it properly. Notice the last line please.
Revelation 11

We give thanks to You, O Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because You have taken Your great power
and have begun to reign

18The nations were enraged,

and Your wrath has come.

The time has come to judge the dead
and to reward Your servants the prophets,
as well as the saints and those who fear Your name,
both small and great—

and to destroy those who destroy the earth.”

This is what I found for the NWT translation of Rev 11:18
18 But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time came for the dead to be judged and to reward your slaves the prophets and the holy ones and those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.”

I see a pretty big difference between "destroying" and "ruining" so I checked a good many translations, and indeed "destroying" is the most prominent.

I'm not big on Rev, so thanks for the incentive to pull it up.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Perhaps I've misunderstood your intended view with your words as follows:
"We can open our hearts to God, yet in the process make ourselves God by our self induced understandings of that Word."
From this, I take it that you believe we are overstepping our abilities as humans, when we think for ourselves when reading the words of those who speak on behalf of God. Is this correct?

Consider if all Messengers are from God, our choice of excluding a majority for only One is highly erroneous. It is us making our own self an interpreter of the Word."
Here, again, I understand you saying that if we self-interpret, we will be just as wrong as if we didn't listen to all. Is that correct?

Yes, we are overstepping our given Authority in faith, we have no Authority of interpretation and that is what a Baha'i will share quotes. w
When offering a passage as proof of their own personal statement, others then get to see if they also agree in the light of that quote.

Yes, as we are not really listening to the Messenger we have embrace if we exclude all other God given Messengers, as they all teach the same Holy Spirit. On can say, seeing the whole elephant.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

This is what I found for the NWT translation of Rev 11:18
18 But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time came for the dead to be judged and to reward your slaves the prophets and the holy ones and those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.”

I see a pretty big difference between "destroying" and "ruining" so I checked a good many translations, and indeed "destroying" is the most prominent.

I'm not big on Rev, so thanks for the incentive to pull it up.

The time for the destruction of the world is prevalent in the Writings.

It is basically a reap what you sow scenario.

Spoiler: Destruction of the World

“The time for the destruction of the world and its people,” Bahá’u’lláh’s prophetic pen has proclaimed, “hath arrived.” “The hour is approaching,” He specifically affirms, “when the most great convulsion will have appeared.” “The promised day is come, the day when tormenting trials will have surged above your heads, and beneath your feet, saying: ‘Taste ye what your hands have wrought!’” “Soon shall the blasts of His chastisement beat upon you, and the dust of hell enshroud you.” And again: “And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake.” “The day is approaching when its [civilization’s] flame will devour the cities, when the Tongue of Grandeur will proclaim: ‘The Kingdom is God’s, the Almighty, the All-Praised!’” “The day will soon come,” He, referring to the foolish ones of the earth, has written, “whereon they will cry out for help and receive no answer.” “The day is approaching,” He moreover has prophesied, “when the wrathful anger of the Almighty will have taken hold of them. He, verily, is the Omnipotent, the All-Subduing, the Most Powerful. He shall cleanse the earth from the defilement of their corruption, and shall give it for an heritage unto such of His servants as are nigh unto Him.”

Search this link for more of the quote

The Promised Day Is Come | Bahá’í Reference Library

A letter written by Shoghi Effendi to the Bahá’ís of the West, dated 28 March 1941.

www.bahai.org

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Of course it is. Why would you, a possessor of the truth, care what I think?

CG, sorry, that was not supposes to be a personal remark, I have little time to post amd did not check the reply, it should have been I do not know if we can, and posting this stuff seems more erroneous than helpful.

Even now I have lost the context of what I was replying too.

Regards Tony

 

[Sumadji]

never felt God in prayers, either. Some say they do, and I don't get it. The one time I know I put my whole heart in prayer was when I began saying the Lord's Prayer aloud while being raped. It got me a beating. Probably not God's answer, huh?

This is awful. I hope you are able to recover from this. God bless you

 

[YoursTrue]

This is what I found for the NWT translation of Rev 11:18
18 But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time came for the dead to be judged and to reward your slaves the prophets and the holy ones and those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.”

I see a pretty big difference between "destroying" and "ruining" so I checked a good many translations, and indeed "destroying" is the most prominent.

I'm not big on Rev, so thanks for the incentive to pull it up.

Yes, I notice a difference of wording. I haven't checked the Greek texts but the point I was bringing out is that God will bring to ruin/destruction (an end) all those ruining/destroying the earth. God will do it. Mankind cannot. That's what the Bible says.

 

[YoursTrue]

@Spice I was just reading your comment about having been raped. My response was as I was reading it, "Oh, my God." I am so sorry about that -- how horrible --

 

[Trailblazer]

I'm afraid you're not reading it properly. Notice the last line please.
Revelation 11

We give thanks to You, O Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because You have taken Your great power
and have begun to reign

18The nations were enraged,

and Your wrath has come.

The time has come to judge the dead
and to reward Your servants the prophets,
as well as the saints and those who fear Your name,
both small and great—

and to destroy those who destroy the earth.”

"and to destroy those who destroy the earth.”

To destroy those who destroy the earth means God will destroy the unbelievers who have no connection to God and are thereby destroying the earth by their disbelief. It has nothing to do with destroying the physical earth.
Destroy has the idea of punish, not annihilate.

 

[YoursTrue]

This is what I found for the NWT translation of Rev 11:18
18 But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time came for the dead to be judged and to reward your slaves the prophets and the holy ones and those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.”

I see a pretty big difference between "destroying" and "ruining" so I checked a good many translations, and indeed "destroying" is the most prominent.

I'm not big on Rev, so thanks for the incentive to pull it up.

Yes, according to what I read of many translations is that the word "destroy" is used there. But when I checked the Interlinear and explanations for that Greek word I see various words used. Basically they mean ruin/utter and complete destruction -- you may find this at bible.cc.

diaphtheiró: to destroy utterly, to spoil, corrupt
Original Word: διαφθείρω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: diaphtheiró
Phonetic Spelling: (dee-af-thi'-ro)
Definition: to destroy utterly, to spoil, corrupt
Usage: I destroy, waste; hence met: I corrupt.

Another source (below -- Thayer's) does use the word ruin as a possible translation. As far as I am concerned, destruction by God and ruin by God is essentially the same thing.
According to the Bible, yes, God will ruin (destroy) those destroying (ruining) the earth. And for this I am very, very happy, because -- for one thing, no matter how much good some people may do, only God can really fix things up.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 1311: διαφθείρω

διαφθείρω; 1 aorist διεφθειρα; passive (present διαφθείρομαι); perfect participle διεφθαρμενος; 2 aorist διεφθαρην; the Sept. very often for שִׁחֵת, occasionally for חִבֵּל; in Greek writings from Homer down;
1. to change for the worse, to corrupt: minds, morals; τήν γῆν, i. e. the men that inhabit the earth, Revelation 11:18; διεφθαρμένοι τόν νοῦν, 1 Timothy 6:5 (τήν διάνοιαν, Plato, legg. 10, p. 888 a.; τόν γνώμην, Dionysius Halicarnassus Antiquities 5, 21; τούς ὀφθαλμούς, Xenophon, an. 4, 5, 12).

2. to destroy, ruin, (Latinperdere);

 

[YoursTrue]

"and to destroy those who destroy the earth.”
...
Destroy has the idea of punish, not annihilate.

It does?

 

[YoursTrue]

"and to destroy those who destroy the earth.”

To destroy those who destroy the earth means God will destroy the unbelievers who have no connection to God and are thereby destroying the earth by their disbelief. It has nothing to do with destroying the physical earth.
Destroy has the idea of punish, not annihilate.

God will not destroy this earth. He will do away with/destroy/bring to ruin those who ARE unrepentantly destroying the earth.

 

[Trailblazer]

It does?

That is what I believe.