What the New Testament says about God is true

[Trailblazer]

Except that these are merely the outward behaviour. It’s the inward journey that is the true spiritual path. The Baha’i faith seems to concentrate mainly upon transforming the outward world. It’s a social project. It’s about being a good person and useful member of society.

You are correct in saying that the Baha’i faith seems to concentrate mainly upon transforming the outward world and it is a social project.
Personally, I think that is a shame, because I think that Baha'is should be more concerned with transforming their own inner life and private character. Shoghi Effendi, the Guardian of the Baha'i Faith, shared my views.

“Not by the force of numbers, not by the mere exposition of a set of new and noble principles, not by an organized campaign of teaching—no matter how worldwide and elaborate in its character—not even by the staunchness of our faith or the exaltation of our enthusiasm, can we ultimately hope to vindicate in the eyes of a critical and sceptical age the supreme claim of the Abhá Revelation. One thing and only one thing will unfailingly and alone secure the undoubted triumph of this sacred Cause, namely, the extent to which our own inner life and private character mirror forth in their manifold aspects the splendor of those eternal principles proclaimed by Bahá’u’lláh.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Bahá’í Administration, Page 66

Christ and other great spiritual figures did not teach this worldly and material form of outward behaviour. They were not concerned with changing the world. They were concerned with the individual heart and soul.

Personally, I think this should be our primary concern, but I am the odd man out, which is one reason why I am not involved in Baha'i community activities, since most of those activities are social projects, which I am not interested in.

The Baha’i will then take selected verses to show that Jesus was indeed a social reformer whose intention was to bring peace on earth and unity of mankind. Then they will use other verses to show that Jesus was not talking about the physical and material world, but about the spiritual.

I do not know any Baha'is who do that. Baha'is should know that Jesus was not a social reformer whose intention was to bring peace on earth and unity of mankind. That was a far cry from the mission of Jesus. Jesus said that He came not to bring peace but a sword. He never even attempted to unify mankind and any such unification would have been impossible 2000 years ago, since most of the world was not even connected.

The Baha’i faith does not hang together in a metaphysical sense. It starts with creating a new and peaceful world, and goes on predicate the cultivation of good human behaviour as the means of getting there. That’s not the way it works.

I fully agree, but I am not going to tell the Baha'is that. What would be the point? They have what they believe is their mission to carry out.

The material world will always be the fractious and ever changing place that it is. It's always 'nature red in tooth and claw'. But 'religion' is about the spiritual.

I think there is hope for this to change, but it has to start with the spiritual, and I do not mean attending devotionals and studying the Baha'i Writings. That does not make Baha'is more spiritual. Spirituality is an individual endeavor and when individuals have it it is projected outwards. Sadly, I don't see that in my Baha'i community. All I see is talk of projects to try to bring religions together.

No other faith, from Taoism to Buddhism and Christianity, and even to Islam, predicates itself upon creating world peace and unity in the material world of nature as the primary object of contact with the divine.

Creating world peace and unity in the material world of nature is not related to contact with the divine, but it is the work that Baha'u'llah entrusted the Baha'is to do, so they are trying to do it.

No, you do not see it in any other religion since the world was not ready for peace and unity until the present age.
However, I think that has been part of God's purpose for humans from the very beginning, and all of human history thus far has been leading up to this age..

“God’s purpose is none other than to usher in, in ways He alone can bring about, and the full significance of which He alone can fathom, the Great, the Golden Age of a long-divided, a long-afflicted humanity. Its present state, indeed even its immediate future, is dark, distressingly dark. Its distant future, however, is radiant, gloriously radiant—so radiant that no eye can visualize it............”

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Promised Day Is Come, Pages 116-117

 

[Trailblazer]

Why do we shine the spotlight on grifters, swindlers, cultists or any other predator?

Now that you have revealed your motive, I consider it insincere that you asked for what you did not really even want, thus wasting people's time.

 

[ppp]

Now that you have revealed your motive, I consider it insincere that you asked for what you did not really even want, thus wasting people's time.

LOL. My "true" motive! You are such a melodrama queen.
Have I not been saying that the Baha'i have no plan all along? If you are only now realizing that I am calling the Baha'i "plan" a grift, then you have been closing your eyes and sticking your fingers in your ears. Don't blame me for your lack of attentiveness.

Here let me rewind for you:

The Baha'i plan does not exist. There is only a concept of a plan.

Don't be silly. He is just a cut-and-paster. He never engages with what is said. He only looks for keywords and delivers a pre-prepared statement from a publicity and marketing script.. Might as well be talking to Level 1 Customer Service.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What I am never swayed by is snake-oil. And that is all that you are giving me.

That is the crux of the matter, preconceived ideas as to the possible content of the proposal.

Regards Tony

 

[ppp]

That is the crux of the matter, preconceived ideas as to the possible content of the proposal.

Regards Tony

That is a sorry sad excuse, Tony. The fact of the matter is that I have had preconceived ideas, and that people (not you) who thought their positions through and presented them with intelligence and well constructed arguments have changed my mind. You are just trying to blame me for your lack of evidence or thoughtful consideration.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That is a sorry sad excuse, Tony. The fact of the matter is that I have had preconceived ideas, and that people (not you) who thought their positions through and presented them with intelligence and well constructed arguments have changed my mind. You are just trying to blame me for your lack of evidence or thoughtful consideration.

No worries, I have broad shoulders and will carry that load. There is an OP on the topic.

Regards Tony

 

[ppp]

No worries, I have broad shoulders and will carry that load. There is an OP on the topic.

Regards Tony

You are such a sorry interlocutor. No one gives a crap about your shoulders. Your so called response deals with with nothing at all in my post. All you did was try to play the sad-sack victim. Instead try to take some responsibility and deal with your own claims. Sheesh dude. Quit whining.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You are such a sorry interlocutor. No one gives a crap about your shoulders. Your so called response deals with with nothing at all in my post. All you did was try to play the sad-sack victim. Instead try to take some responsibility and deal with your own claims. Sheesh dude. Quit whining.

No wonder people leave this forum. I will only wish you all the best, I am not offering more about any peace messages to ppp.

Tony

 

[ppp]

No wonder people leave this forum. I will only wish you all the best, I am not offering more about any peace messages to ppp.

Tony

You have never offered any peace messages. To anyone. Ever,

 

[Brian2]

The meaning of IMPASSABLE is incapable of being passed, traveled, crossed, or surmounted.

Definition of IMPASSABLE

incapable of being passed, traveled, crossed, or surmounted… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Impassible, with an "i" means:
1
a
: incapable of suffering or of experiencing pain
b
: inaccessible to injury

2
: incapable of feeling : impassive

 

[Trailblazer]

Impassible, with an "i" means:
1
a
: incapable of suffering or of experiencing pain
b
: inaccessible to injury

2
: incapable of feeling : impassive

I do not know if God is incapable of suffering or of experiencing pain.
I believe that God is inaccessible to injury since God is not a physical being.

 

[Ebionite]

I believe that God is inaccessible to injury since God is not a physical being.

And YHWH spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.
Exodus 33:11

 

[Sumadji]

No, you do not see it in any other religion since the world was not ready for peace and unity until the present age.
However, I think that has been part of God's purpose for humans from the very beginning, and all of human history thus far has been leading up to this age..

“God’s purpose is none other than to usher in, in ways He alone can bring about, and the full significance of which He alone can fathom, the Great, the Golden Age of a long-divided, a long-afflicted humanity. Its present state, indeed even its immediate future, is dark, distressingly dark. Its distant future, however, is radiant, gloriously radiant—so radiant that no eye can visualize it............”
Bahá'í Reference Library - The Promised Day Is Come, Pages 116-117

I do not think so. I believe that the material dimension of nature, time and space will always be the formation ground of the soul. It’s in the story of the descent of Adam from the perfect and eternal spiritual dimension into the imperfect, ever-changing dimension of nature. That requires every creature to take the lives of other creatures in order to sustain its own, even just by breathing and drinking, and ends in death for every living thing. Even suns and planets will die.

The world will always be the world. The lion will never lie down with the lamb in this world. Nature will always be nature. How can there be a perfect world when death is at the very heart of it?

Perfection of nature requires the reabsorption of the lesser dimension of nature within the greater dimension of spirit that surrounds and contains and weaves nature.

I don't think spiritual teachers promising a perfect world on earth should be believed.

 

[Sumadji]

This is wishful thinking.

Your words indicate that those of us who do not subscribe to your religion have to be wary and suspicious of Baha’is and Baha’i institutions. You will not convert us. You will not make our religions and ways of life disappear.

Baha'is are not trying to do this. We have no interest in doing this.

“All nations and kindreds,” ‘Abdu’l-Bahá likewise has written, “…will become a single nation. Religious and sectarian antagonism, the hostility of races and peoples, and differences among nations, will be eliminated. All men will adhere to one religion, will have one common faith, will be blended into one race, and become a single people. All will dwell in one common fatherland, which is the planet itself.”
Baha'i Library

The issue is not that humanity should work towards world peace, as most reasonable people would like to see, but that it can really only be achieved by following the Baha'i faith?

I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be difficult. But the Baha'i do spend a lot of energy explaining to others how they wrongly understand their own religions. Especially Christians. They really do. Of course there will be pushback in religious discussion forums.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I believe that what the New Testament says about God is true.

I also believe that what Baha'u'llah wrote about God is true.

Christians and Baha'is share common beliefs, that God is loving, merciful, forgiving, and trustworthy. It would be nice if Baha'is and Christians could build a bridge around the beliefs we have in common rather than arguing all the time about things that we disagree upon. I believe that what the New Testament says about God is true, and Baha'u'llah wrote essentially the same things about God and about how believers should conduct themselves towards God.

How does anything in the following passage contradict what what the New Testament says?

"The virtues and attributes pertaining unto God are all evident and manifest, and have been mentioned and described in all the heavenly Books. Among them are trustworthiness, truthfulness, purity of heart while communing with God, forbearance, resignation to whatever the Almighty hath decreed, contentment with the things His Will hath provided, patience, nay, thankfulness in the midst of tribulation, and complete reliance, in all circumstances, upon Him. These rank, according to the estimate of God, among the highest and most laudable of all acts. All other acts are, and will ever remain, secondary and subordinate unto them….

The spirit that animateth the human heart is the knowledge of God, and its truest adorning is the recognition of the truth that “He doeth whatsoever He willeth, and ordaineth that which He pleaseth.” Its raiment is the fear of God, and its perfection steadfastness in His Faith. Thus God instructeth whosoever seeketh Him. He, verily, loveth the one that turneth towards Him. There is none other God but Him, the Forgiving, the Most Bountiful. All praise be to God, the Lord of all worlds."

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 290-291

reference.bahai.org

Here's one passage from the New Testament (Romans 13:1-5) that speaks about God:

Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except by God’s appointment,[a] and the authorities that exist have been instituted by God. 2 So the person who resists such authority[b] resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will incur judgment 3 (for rulers cause no fear for good conduct but for bad). Do you desire not to fear authority? Do good and you will receive its commendation 4 because it is God’s servant for your well-being. But be afraid if you do wrong because government[c] does not bear the sword for nothing. It is God’s servant to administer punishment on the person who does wrong. 5 Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of the wrath of the authorities[d] but also because of your conscience.[e]

The Bàb was executed by the governing authorities, right?

 

[mangalavara]

I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be difficult.

You at least revealed with that passage from your scripture that Baha’is are an institution that the rest of us must be wary and suspicious of.

But the Baha'i do spend a lot of energy explaining to others how they wrongly understand their own religions. Especially Christians.

That is the activity of an extremely condescending group. It makes Baha’is unattractive.

They really do

Wow, the arrogance…

All men will adhere to one religion, will have one common faith, will be blended into one race, and become a single people.

Why seek a common religion, a common ‘faith,’ and a single nation for all human beings when we are by nature a diverse species? What your prophet or whoever envisions makes me think of the dystopian novel This Perfect Day by Ira Levin.

Fortunately, my religion and way of life, Sanātana Dharma, is what it always has been and always will be: the eternal religion.

 

[Sumadji]

You at least revealed with that passage from your scripture that Baha’is are an institution that the rest of us must be wary and suspicious of.



That is the activity of an extremely condescending group. It makes Baha’is unattractive.



Wow, the arrogance…



Why seek a common religion, a common ‘faith,’ and a single nation for all human beings when we are by nature a diverse species? What your prophet or whoever envisions makes me think of the dystopian novel This Perfect Day by Ira Levin.

Fortunately, my religion and way of life, Sanātana Dharma, is what it always has been and always will be: the eternal religion.

@mangalavara

Neither @CG Didymus nor I are Baha'i

 

[mangalavara]

@mangalavara

Neither @CG Didymus nor I are Baha'i

Thank you for informing me about that.

I am terribly sorry for sounding hostile toward you.

 

[Trailblazer]

And YHWH spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.
Exodus 33:11

1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

Exodus 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

Yet one more of the many contradictions in the Bible.

 

[Trailblazer]

I do not think so. I believe that the material dimension of nature, time and space will always be the formation ground of the soul. It’s in the story of the descent of Adam from the perfect and eternal spiritual dimension into the imperfect, ever-changing dimension of nature. That requires every creature to take the lives of other creatures in order to sustain its own, even just by breathing and drinking, and ends in death for every living thing. Even suns and planets will die.

I agree.

The world will always be the world. The lion will never lie down with the lamb in this world. Nature will always be nature.

I agree. Nature will always be nature. Those verses about the lion laying down with the lamb and figurative, not literal. I believe they mean that
in the future diverse religions and races will become comrades, friends and companions. The contentions of races, the differences of religions, and the barriers between nations will be completely removed, and all will attain perfect union and reconciliation. Eventually, there will be only one religion, the religion of God. Mind you, this will not take place until the distant future. Humanity has a long way to go before this can happen.

How can there be a perfect world when death is at the very heart of it?

1. I never said that there will ever be a perfect world. That is a belief of the Jehovah's Witnesses.
2. What does death at the end have to do with 'living' in a better world? (I won't say perfect because I don't believe this world will ever be perfect).

Perfection of nature requires the reabsorption of the lesser dimension of nature within the greater dimension of spirit that surrounds and contains and weaves nature.

Sorry, I don't know anything about that.

I don't think spiritual teachers promising a perfect world on earth should be believed.

Neither do I, and that is why I reject the teachings of the Jehovah's Witnesses.