What verifiable evidence is there that god exists?

[JJ50]

That rather depends on whether the god in question is supposed to cause any detectable effects in the material world. Certainly, you'd expect a god with an important message, to make it clear to everybody...

Not merely a matter of faith.

 

[oldbadger]

@JJ50 ............ Hi......
I've got one of two ideas for you.

Could we focus upon the initiation of our Universe or what might lay beyond it........ could we do that?

Do you think that this initiation was activated or triggered by something, or somehow, ....? Was there a reason or a cause for or of it?

Thankyou.....

 

[ratiocinator]

Wouldn't healings, personal experiences, visions etc be examples of detectable effects?

The problems are the personal experiences and visions are, by their nature, personal and subjective. Healings are never consistent - all attempts at finding objective evidence, for example, that prayer makes a difference have failed.

Added to which, none those are unique to one religion.

 

[JJ50]

Healing can and does occur naturally and unexpectedly, no miracle involved.

 

[WalterTrull]

Healing can and does occur naturally and unexpectedly, no miracle involved.

Uhmm... "Natural" miracle?

 

[ratiocinator]

Could we focus upon the initiation of our Universe or what might lay beyond it........ could we do that?

Do you think that this initiation was activated or triggered by something, or somehow, ....? Was there a reason or a cause for or of it?

I don't know the answers but I'll just point out that postulating a god doesn't actually help with the mystery of existence. A god that can imagine, plan, and make a universe, is no less mysterious and unexplained than just a universe.

We can ask "why does the universe exist?" or "why this universe and not another, or nothing at all?"

If we postulate a creator god, we just end up with: "why does god exist?" or "why this god and not another, or nothing at all?"

See? It's got us nowhere at all, really.

 

[WalterTrull]

What (objective) evidence is there for any of the many, many god ideas?

Ahhh... You believe there are objects. Got it. Explains a lot of your premises.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Something is scientifically verifiable if it can be tested and proven to be true. Verifiable comes from the verb verify, "authenticate" or "prove," from the Old French verifier, "find out the truth about." The Latin root is verus, or "true."

I noticed that it was explained before that we can provide evidence that God is, but no one is able to prove it 'beyond any doubt'.
The same goes for many other things in life, like the origin of the universe, and life, or evolution as explained by scientists today.

I wasn't aware that anyone said or thought they could prove God is.
However, they are people that speak of Darwinian Evolution as though it has been proven.
Perhaps it is how we use words. Some people may think proven means what we think or believe.
So I think you have clarified a very important point... Christians have faith in the evidence they can't verify 100%, and evolutionist have faith in evidence they can't verify 100%.

That's what is puzzling Christians.... Why are there people that are acting as if only Christians have faith? Why are there people that keep presenting questions they know can't be answered with 100% certainty and yet they have no answer at all alternately other than what's in their mind - nothing they can prove outside of that?

The theory of evolution has been tested countless times and been repeatedly confirmed. Creationists quite often have the mistaken idea that a specific event needs to be testable. That is not the case. What needs to be testable is the the concept. And there have been millions of tests by now done on the theory of evolution. It has not failed a major one yet. Minor tests that tweaked the theory have falsified specific ideas within the theory.

But back to your point, there is no reliable evidence for a God. The "evidence" that a Muslim finds for his God will be rightfully denied by a Christian and rightfully so. The same will happen with a Christian's evidence for his God given to a Muslim.

The theory of evolution has been proven far beyond a reasonable doubt and theists still cannot find reliable evidence for a God.

 

[Jos]

The problems are the personal experiences and visions are, by their nature, personal and subjective.

But can't they still be seen as an intervention on the part of the Divine? They can't be ruled as out interventions on His behalf, can they?

Healings are never consistent - all attempts at finding objective evidence, for example, that prayer makes a difference have failed

Well prayer by its nature spiritual and non physical so wouldn't it be difficult impossible to use science to examine something spiritual?

Added to which, none those are unique to one religion.

Fair enough but according to Christianity, Satan also has the power to heal, so... there's that.

 

[Jos]

Healing can and does occur naturally and unexpectedly, no miracle involved.

Granted but what about those that report healings instantly and miraculously due to prayer? Surely they're not all lying?

 

[Jos]

If we postulate a creator god, we just end up with: "why does god exist?" or "why this god and not another, or nothing at all?"

Interesting point. This is worth some pondering. I've thought about that too, like why an all-good God rather than an all-evil God but I've heard that Good is objective and evil is a privation of good kinda like how coldness is a privation of heat... so an evil God would be a contradiction in terms since there has to be a preexisting Good to private from. There God has to be good.

 

[ratiocinator]

But can't they still be seen as an intervention on the part of the Divine? They can't be ruled as out interventions on His behalf, can they?

Of course they can be seen like that, and obviously you can't 100% rule out that explanation. The problem is that there are plenty of other explanations, so there is no actual evidence.

Well prayer by its nature spiritual and non physical so wouldn't it be difficult impossible to use science to examine something spiritual?

Well either praying for somebody to be healed has an effect on the person's health or it doesn't. Surely you'd at least expect a statistical effect - even if only some people who were prayed for got better miraculously, that would mean more people who were prayed for would recover than those who weren't prayed for. Otherwise what's the point of praying and how can 'healings' be evidence?

Fair enough but according to Christianity, Satan also has the power to heal, so... there's that.

So, again, what value are healings as evidence for a god if they happen anyway?

 

[Hawkins]

I am of the opinion that the Biblical god is a human creation, I have not seen any evidence to suggest otherwise. If god really exists why does it hide away, instead of revealing itself to all humanity in a way that is indisputable?

The Bible God is said to be omnipotent. Let's assume that it's true for the sake of argument. If this God has all the power to stop humans from gathering His evidence, then how can human gather the evidence of His existence?

The Bible God has to stop humans (except for a few) from gathering His evidence simply because the covenant between God and men says that humans need to be saved by faith and faith alone.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

One convicted prisoner said the condition his brain was in that it needed a good washing !.

Thanks for the ad hom personal attack. As well as a straw man logical fallacy.

Reading the Bible can be a good thing, but I find reading it through is Not a study thing.
The Bible is Not meant to be a novel to just read from cover to cover ( Adam to Revelation ).

Straw man, ad hom, judgemental, etc, etc, etc-- you name it, you committed the fallacy.

I studied it religiously (literally) for more than 30 years of my life. Read it backwards and forwards, over and over.

But it took a college level course-- 3 of them, in fact, for me to really get the principle message of the bible: It's god? Is pure evil, of the most vile sort, no question. And my faith in the bible? Slowly leaked away, followed by any faith I had in god(s). Gone like dry ice on a hot sidewalk.

The god as described in the very ugly bible? Is the most narcissistic, petulant, capricious, plays favorites, thin skinned monstrous being as ever fabricated by humans.

Such a being is unworthy of further consideration, as it cannot possibly exist.

Proof? We are still here... if the bible is even a tenth accurate it it's descriptions, that beast would have wiped out the earth, many times before now.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

The last time I looked I found 'verifiable evidence that the Bible exists', exists world wide.

Yet... neither you nor anyone else can muster up a single example of this so-called "evidence". Here, you had a chance to mention it, or post a link or something.

Did you? Absolutely not! You divert into some silly conspiracy bologna than no sane person would take seriously, if they thought about it without preconceived ideas.

 

[Hawkins]

Yet... neither you nor anyone else can muster up a single example of this so-called "evidence". Here, you had a chance to mention it, or post a link or something.

Did you? Absolutely not! You divert into some silly conspiracy bologna than no sane person would take seriously, if they thought about it without preconceived ideas.

What evidence do you have for your lunch taken yesterday. Show us what you ate in one of your million meals you ever had in your life time!

 

[ratiocinator]

The Bible God has to stop humans (except for a few) from gathering His evidence simply because the covenant between God and men says that humans need to be saved by faith and faith alone.

So god likes irrational, overly credulous humans? Or, more accurately, the subset of those who just happen to choose the 'right' apparent myth to believe?

 

[Hawkins]

So god likes irrational, overly credulous humans? Or, more accurately, the subset of those who just happen to choose the 'right' apparent myth to believe?

No, what God chooses is the common way how humans can get to a truth! Believing in human testimonies in a form is how humans get to a truth of any kind!

 

[ratiocinator]

No, what God chooses is the common way how humans can get to a truth!

Blind faith is some random myth? Seriously?

 

[Hawkins]

Blind faith is some random myth? Seriously?

In your terms, all kind of human history are blind faith.

You consider them as blind faith simply because you are clueless about how humans usually employ to get to a truth.

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