What was the motive for this fairy tale?

[Spiderman]

So why did the Apostles and Disciples make up this lie about Jesus? What did they gain by it? Aside from the miracles, it isn’t a very remarkable story like you see in other myths. Peter denied him three times, Judas betrayed him and committed suicide, Jesus was arrested,humiliated, and executed. Then the author of Scripture even says that he cried out “Father, why have you forsaken me”?

If you were trying to make Jesus look like a Superhero, why would you write that?
Also, the Authors of the New Testament didn’t get rich off of it. From the research I’ve done, 11 of the twelve were persecuted and killed for what they believe. St. Paul didn’t benefit from preaching the Gospel and converting from a persecutor of Christians to becoming the persecuted and eventually a martyr.

So what benefit is there in making up such a story. The Disciples fled like cowards when it was time for Jesus to get executed. The story doesn’t make them look that good. The women were more courageous than them. It was the women who were at the foot of the cross, the women who went to the tomb, and the first people Jesus appeared to were women who had more faith and courage than the twelve that were with him and witnessed his works and were anointed to do the same works. In fact, Peter, the head of the Apostles, was the one who appeared most cowardly after Judas of course.

So what did they have to gain by making up such a story? They didn’t get rich from the story. They suffered and got killed for it. There are many accounts of the early Christians getting fed to wild animals and lit on fire and impaled on poles. They didn’t crack. They weren’t benefiting from believing this “lie”.

IT is also interesting that the enemies of Jesus didn’t call his miracles a hoax. They accussed him of being a magician and using demonic forces to work miracles, but they never denied that the miracles happened. If it is a fable, it is an extremely unique one.

 

[Spiderman]

Also, if they knew they had made it up, they wouldn't have suffered so much for it. So, even if it wasn't true, they definitely believed it to be true.

 

[Koldo]

What are you talking about specifically? The death and ressurection?

 

[Spiderman]

What are you talking about specifically? The death and ressurection?

The Gospels.

 

[jeager106]

The Gospels.

Hey Matt? Are you saying all the Gospels are made up?
Please clarify that for me.

 

[Ouroboros]

So why did the Apostles and Disciples make up this lie about Jesus? What did they gain by it? Aside from the miracles, it isn’t a very remarkable story like you see in other myths. Peter denied him three times, Judas betrayed him and committed suicide, Jesus was arrested,humiliated, and executed. Then the author of Scripture even says that he cried out “Father, why have you forsaken me”?

If you were trying to make Jesus look like a Superhero, why would you write that?
Also, the Authors of the New Testament didn’t get rich off of it. From the research I’ve done, 11 of the twelve were persecuted and killed for what they believe. St. Paul didn’t benefit from preaching the Gospel and converting from a persecutor of Christians to becoming the persecuted and eventually a martyr.

Well, there's a reason why the Greek dramas catches us. We like underdogs who go through tough times and sometimes are not perfect, but then brought up to light and restoration. You can see this theme in TV shows, movies, books, and more. We don't like the perfect superheroes that much. Even Superman has flaws. Batman has a dark side. What catches a person in the story about Jesus is the humiliation, betrayal, and execution. All that he supposedly went through, it makes us think "what a guy! And yet he didn't give up."

The benefits, it's hard to say because we really don't know that much about the 11. Martyrdom tends to fuel cults more than quench them. It's just how it works. If they had a leader who was killed for the sake of their belief that he was messiah, they were probably very upset. And I think the fact that there were a strong cult in the early century suggests that something like this did happen. The cult's leader was killed somehow, and that's why they were pissed.

So what benefit is there in making up such a story. The Disciples fled like cowards when it was time for Jesus to get executed. The story doesn’t make them look that good. The women were more courageous than them. It was the women who were at the foot of the cross, the women who went to the tomb, and the first people Jesus appeared to were women who had more faith and courage than the twelve that were with him and witnessed his works and were anointed to do the same works. In fact, Peter, the head of the Apostles, was the one who appeared most cowardly after Judas of course.

If I remember right, the stories aren't united in who went to the tombs and saw Jesus first. But with that being said, it's not unique to the Bible to have fallen heroes or disciples making mistakes or being discouraged. That's part of a good story.

So what did they have to gain by making up such a story? They didn’t get rich from the story. They suffered and got killed for it. There are many accounts of the early Christians getting fed to wild animals and lit on fire and impaled on poles. They didn’t crack. They weren’t benefiting from believing this “lie”.

Perhaps they weren't the ones making up the story. Just suggesting a solution to your dilemma. They had their experiences, but people who told their stories over and over again, from mouth to mouth, expanded and changed. Not intentionally, but changed nonetheless.

IT is also interesting that the enemies of Jesus didn’t call his miracles a hoax. They accussed him of being a magician and using demonic forces to work miracles, but they never denied that the miracles happened. If it is a fable, it is an extremely unique one.

Actually, I'd say it's the other way around. The fact that we have no writings outside the Gospels talking about Jesus's miracles in neither positive nor negative view suggests that there wasn't much noise at all. There wasn't big cities, big crowds, everyone seeing this or that, but rather small groups at the best, or perhaps none at all. Personally, I do think there was a group with some religious leader, but the stories grew out of hand. These few guys couldn't stand a chance against the flood of stories, especially not after they were also martyred. Who was there to correct the stories in the details after they were gone?

 

[Ouroboros]

Also, if they knew they had made it up, they wouldn't have suffered so much for it. So, even if it wasn't true, they definitely believed it to be true.

If the stories about their martyrdom are true. Most of them are told in the same book. We do know that Acts doesn't add up with Paul's stories, so perhaps there were some other embellished stories in there? Who knows?

 

[Spiderman]

Hey Matt? Are you saying all the Gospels are made up?
Please clarify that for me.

Im saying many think they are so im asking for suggestions as to why. I can understand why people like Muhammad draw people because he could share a lot of loot with people when he conquered cities and people are drawn to a mighty warrior.

Why make up a story abut some poor carpenter saying love your enemies and care for the hungry and turn the other cheek, and get nailed to across, all the while forgiving those who are doing that to you.

It isn't a superman tale and it isn't a message people want to hear. And it isn't a message people want to make up to die for.

Also, it was a patriarchal society where women were not counted as much. Yet in the story, the women were more courageous and loyal then his closest male followers.

 

[Spiderman]

If the stories about their martyrdom are true. Most of them are told in the same book. We do know that Acts doesn't add up with Paul's stories, so perhaps there were some other embellished stories in there? Who knows?

Specify how acts doesn't add up with Paul's stories.

 

[Ouroboros]

Specify how acts doesn't add up with Paul's stories.

I don't remember. I would have to look it up.

 

[Koldo]

The Gospels.

First of all, the authorship of the gospels is unknown. But most likely none of them were eyewitnesses. And if I remember correctly, at least one or two of the gospels was a compilation from other sources.
So, perhaps, a better question would be: What would the authors have gained from telling a lie?

 

[Nietzsche]

So why did the Apostles and Disciples make up this lie about Jesus? What did they gain by it? Aside from the miracles, it isn’t a very remarkable story like you see in other myths. Peter denied him three times, Judas betrayed him and committed suicide, Jesus was arrested,humiliated, and executed. Then the author of Scripture even says that he cried out “Father, why have you forsaken me”?

If you were trying to make Jesus look like a Superhero, why would you write that?
Also, the Authors of the New Testament didn’t get rich off of it. From the research I’ve done, 11 of the twelve were persecuted and killed for what they believe. St. Paul didn’t benefit from preaching the Gospel and converting from a persecutor of Christians to becoming the persecuted and eventually a martyr.

So what benefit is there in making up such a story. The Disciples fled like cowards when it was time for Jesus to get executed. The story doesn’t make them look that good. The women were more courageous than them. It was the women who were at the foot of the cross, the women who went to the tomb, and the first people Jesus appeared to were women who had more faith and courage than the twelve that were with him and witnessed his works and were anointed to do the same works. In fact, Peter, the head of the Apostles, was the one who appeared most cowardly after Judas of course.

So what did they have to gain by making up such a story? They didn’t get rich from the story. They suffered and got killed for it. There are many accounts of the early Christians getting fed to wild animals and lit on fire and impaled on poles. They didn’t crack. They weren’t benefiting from believing this “lie”.

IT is also interesting that the enemies of Jesus didn’t call his miracles a hoax. They accussed him of being a magician and using demonic forces to work miracles, but they never denied that the miracles happened. If it is a fable, it is an extremely unique one.

No more unique than Mithras or Plato(or was it Aristotle? Or Socrates? that probably didn't exist?).

 

[Spiderman]

No more unique than Mithras or Plato(or was it Aristotle? Or Socrates? that probably didn't exist?).

Yeah...Aristotle and Socrates had such a following of so many people that would die for being their followers.

 

[viole]

First of all, the authorship of the gospels is unknown. But most likely none of them were eyewitnesses. And if I remember correctly, at least one or two of the gospels was a compilation from other sources.
So, perhaps, a better question would be: What would the authors have gained from telling a lie?

What would an alien abductee gain by telling a lie?

Not lying does not equal telling the truth. Delusional people, for instance, are not conscious liars.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Nietzsche]

Yeah...Aristotle and Socrates had such a following of so many people that would die for being their followers.

Question.

Raud the Strong died for his beliefs in Odin-Allfather, Thor Protector of Mankind, Tyr-Law-speaker, and the rest of the Old Gods.

Do you think the Aesir & Vanir lived as well?

 

[Koldo]

What would an alien abductee gain by telling a lie?

Not lying does not equal telling the truth. Delusional people, for instance, are not conscious liars.

Ciao

- viole

Agreed.

 

[Spiderman]

What would an alien abductee gain by telling a lie?

Not lying does not equal telling the truth. Delusional people, for instance, are not conscious liars.

Ciao

- viole

I think if an Alien Abductee would be taken before a court and whipped, and wear a crown of thorns, and be nailed to a cross, he would deny it for the purpose of relieving some of the agony~!

 

[Nietzsche]

What would an alien abductee gain by telling a lie?

Not lying does not equal telling the truth. Delusional people, for instance, are not conscious liars.

Ciao

- viole

Exactly. There is a difference between lying and telling what you think is the truth.

 

[viole]

I think if an Alien Abductee would be taken before a court and whipped, and wear a crown of thorns, and be nailed to a cross, he would deny it for the purpose of relieving some of the agony~!

And A God man would use a miracolous pain killer to actually remove the agony while still giving the impression of suffering from it. i would.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Spiderman]

Question.

Raud the Strong died for his beliefs in Odin-Allfather, Thor Protector of Mankind, Tyr-Law-speaker, and the rest of the Old Gods.

Do you think the Aesir & Vanir lived as well?

And they taught people to live in poverty and overcome desire for wealth and fame and sensual pleasure, and love the unlovable, love enemies, turn the other cheek, and care for the sick.

It seems a bit more unique than the superheroes. He was just a carpenter born in a smelly stable.