What was the nature of Jesus?

[moorea944]

The flesh nature of the Messiah is stressed throught scripture. It is not a disguise. It is not a deceit or false doctrine. Although Jesus was the center point of the Creator's plan and intended from the beginning, Jesus did not exist as a living sentient being until he was born of Mary. The human nature (flesh nature) of Christ is absolutely essential for his role, his victory and the path he has created for other to follow.
Deut 18v15-18, Moses addresses the nation of Israel before his death about the coming Messiah. This prophecy is directly quoted of Jesus in Acts 3v22.

We read of the promise that God would "raise up" (not desend) a prophet.

Romans 1v1-3, ....... Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh. Paul is not telling people about a triune God. Or that Jesus is God.

Psalm 89v19 and verses 26-33 of this Psalm clearly confirm verse 19 should be understood in reference to the Messiah. Here the Messiah is chosen "out of the people". We read that God will "make him" His firtborn.

1 Cor. 15v21-22 We are cautioned to understand that the resurrection came by man.

Hebrews 2v16-17. Jesus was made like his brethren in every respect. Once again, Jesus had an origin. He was made (not re-made)

2 John 1 "For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist."

Jesus is the co-inheritor of God with us. One cannot inherit himself, as would be the case if we accept the concept of the trinity. And he also needed salvation.

Jesus never once expresses to his disciples that he is really God masquerading as a human being. Why would that be..... if that understanding was the truth? Jesus tells everyone he gave up his LIFE (not just his disguise body or his fake human nature charade). An immortal cannot die, therefore, if Christ were an immortal claiming he was sacrificing his life and not just a mortal disguise, then he lied. If we accept the doctrine of the trinity we most conclude that Jesus could not possibly give up a life that was immortal but had to be limited to only shedding the painful and very limited mortal shell he had temporarily inhabited, just like an overcoat.

If we accept the notion of the trinity we are forced to accept the fact that God misrepresented Himself constantly about being a man and being mortal and having the capacity to sin and actualy dying and sacrificing His life and coming back from the dead. ... when God states that He is incaplable of being seen by mortal men, of being tempted or dying. If we limit the greatness of the Creator to humanity, we are diminishing the glory of God and making God a reflection of ourselves, as well as rendering the challenges of Jesus and his victory as utterly shallow and meaningless. Every form of false doctrine elevates mortal man and degrades our Creator.

 

[AllanV]

The flesh nature of the Messiah is stressed throught scripture. It is not a disguise. It is not a deceit or false doctrine. Although Jesus was the center point of the Creator's plan and intended from the beginning, Jesus did not exist as a living sentient being until he was born of Mary. The human nature (flesh nature) of Christ is absolutely essential for his role, his victory and the path he has created for other to follow.

The nature of Jesus is at the core of access to God for any individual.
The fast of forty days that Jesus took presented a challenge in the mind and Satan needed to be overcome.
Satan stands in place of Knowing God in the mind. Therefore what goes on in own thoughts is a barrier but it seems relatively benign and can be acceptable and comfortable. Most will never test or push boundaries and Satan will not be revealed powerfully.

But when tested aspects of the personality are revealed and their truly powerful hold understood. There are genetically driven nature traits that develop a flawed personality that is seen and worked with and against by others.
Irritation could lead to aggravation and onto murder. Satan will latch onto the smallest part and build on it to prompt and temp a person into an action they may not have the will power to draw back from.

Own quest must be acted on and it is a journey of transformation.
There is a spiritual realm to assist and take one through and the momentum must be continued in a forward manner. The way into transformation is opened up and the way forward is revealed progressively. It is in the mind and heart.
The old belief in own self with its attachments must be seen for what it is.
The heart and spirit must be broken and contrite and full belief and deepening faith allows the will power to push away the last pieces of the tainted personality.

Immediately the incomprehensible gentle nature and consciousness of Jesus is apparent and there is an energizing power within. The heart is ecstatic being fully open and an incredible melody plays on it.
It is as though the heart has been shriveled and this is what circumcision of it is about.

The mind then is empowered and the nature gentle and humans are unable to play their minds against a human personality because it doesn't exist.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

The flesh nature of the Messiah is stressed throught scripture. It is not a disguise. It is not a deceit or false doctrine. Although Jesus was the center point of the Creator's plan and intended from the beginning, Jesus did not exist as a living sentient being until he was born of Mary. The human nature (flesh nature) of Christ is absolutely essential for his role, his victory and the path he has created for other to follow.
Deut 18v15-18, Moses addresses the nation of Israel before his death about the coming Messiah. This prophecy is directly quoted of Jesus in Acts 3v22.

We read of the promise that God would "raise up" (not desend) a prophet.

Romans 1v1-3, ....... Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh. Paul is not telling people about a triune God. Or that Jesus is God.

Psalm 89v19 and verses 26-33 of this Psalm clearly confirm verse 19 should be understood in reference to the Messiah. Here the Messiah is chosen "out of the people". We read that God will "make him" His firtborn.

1 Cor. 15v21-22 We are cautioned to understand that the resurrection came by man.

Hebrews 2v16-17. Jesus was made like his brethren in every respect. Once again, Jesus had an origin. He was made (not re-made)

2 John 1 "For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist."

Jesus is the co-inheritor of God with us. One cannot inherit himself, as would be the case if we accept the concept of the trinity. And he also needed salvation.

Jesus never once expresses to his disciples that he is really God masquerading as a human being. Why would that be..... if that understanding was the truth? Jesus tells everyone he gave up his LIFE (not just his disguise body or his fake human nature charade). An immortal cannot die, therefore, if Christ were an immortal claiming he was sacrificing his life and not just a mortal disguise, then he lied. If we accept the doctrine of the trinity we most conclude that Jesus could not possibly give up a life that was immortal but had to be limited to only shedding the painful and very limited mortal shell he had temporarily inhabited, just like an overcoat.

If we accept the notion of the trinity we are forced to accept the fact that God misrepresented Himself constantly about being a man and being mortal and having the capacity to sin and actualy dying and sacrificing His life and coming back from the dead. ... when God states that He is incaplable of being seen by mortal men, of being tempted or dying. If we limit the greatness of the Creator to humanity, we are diminishing the glory of God and making God a reflection of ourselves, as well as rendering the challenges of Jesus and his victory as utterly shallow and meaningless. Every form of false doctrine elevates mortal man and degrades our Creator.

Jesus is fully human I agree, your verses demonstrate that.

He is also fully God.

John 8:58 - Before Abraham was, I AM.

John 1 that Jesus is the Word and was in the beginning with God and was God. All things were made through Him.

There are many verses but those are pretty definitive themselves.

 

[wizanda]

lol, love how you ask a question, and then use everywhere else other than what Yeshua stated, to justify what you think he should be. Why ask the question, if you're not interested in the answers.

 

[Estro Felino]

TThe human nature (flesh nature) of Christ is absolutely essential for his role, his victory and the path he has created for other to follow.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Great definition,sir

 

[moorea944]

lol, love how you ask a question, and then use everywhere else other than what Yeshua stated, to justify what you think he should be. Why ask the question, if you're not interested in the answers.

That' s not true at all.

 

[moorea944]

Jesus is fully human I agree, your verses demonstrate that.

He is also fully God.

John 8:58 - Before Abraham was, I AM.

John 1 that Jesus is the Word and was in the beginning with God and was God. All things were made through Him.

There are many verses but those are pretty definitive themselves.

"Before Abraham was, I Am" Jesus is just stating the the Gospel was preached all the way back to Abraham. That's all. It's not talking about the pre-existence of Christ at all.

John 1 isnt talking about Christ yet, it's talking about the "logos", God's plans, thoughts and reason. Yes, Jesus was in it too, the same with us. Then in verse 14 it talks about Jesus.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

we are diminishing the glory of God and making God a reflection of ourselves,

I like this. I think this is in Christianity and many faiths in general. We interpret the supernatural based on our perceptions. We cannot live outside of our own perception of reality. So, if Jesus was God, then we (people back then and today) are interpreting His nature as a reflection of ours--as I agree. It belittles God only because some of us believe we have a sinful nature. I don't believe anyone has a sinful nature; so, anyone can do what Jesus did in respect of dying for all. Only He was called to do so (as far as we only know what's written).

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

"Before Abraham was, I Am" Jesus is just stating the the Gospel was preached all the way back to Abraham. That's all. It's not talking about the pre-existence of Christ at all.

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day.He saw it and was glad.” 57 So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” 59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

They're asking Jesus how has He seen Abraham when he is not old enough, and he says "Before Abraham was I am".

Why is this referring to the Gospel and not Jesus Himself? Why does 'I am' signify the Gospel and not God? Why would Jesus say "I am" and not just "the Gospel"? Why were the Jews so offended that they picked up stones to throw at him?

It seems you are trying to avoid the plain meaning of the verse.

John 1 isnt talking about Christ yet, it's talking about the "logos", God's plans, thoughts and reason. Yes, Jesus was in it too, the same with us. Then in verse 14 it talks about Jesus.

The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. The Word, the Logos, is Christ. If we are all "in" the Logos, then what is the significance of the Word becoming flesh and dwelling among us?

 

[Muffled]

The flesh nature of the Messiah is stressed throught scripture. It is not a disguise. It is not a deceit or false doctrine. Although Jesus was the center point of the Creator's plan and intended from the beginning, Jesus did not exist as a living sentient being until he was born of Mary. The human nature (flesh nature) of Christ is absolutely essential for his role, his victory and the path he has created for other to follow.
Deut 18v15-18, Moses addresses the nation of Israel before his death about the coming Messiah. This prophecy is directly quoted of Jesus in Acts 3v22.

We read of the promise that God would "raise up" (not desend) a prophet.

Romans 1v1-3, ....... Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh. Paul is not telling people about a triune God. Or that Jesus is God.

Psalm 89v19 and verses 26-33 of this Psalm clearly confirm verse 19 should be understood in reference to the Messiah. Here the Messiah is chosen "out of the people". We read that God will "make him" His firtborn.

1 Cor. 15v21-22 We are cautioned to understand that the resurrection came by man.

Hebrews 2v16-17. Jesus was made like his brethren in every respect. Once again, Jesus had an origin. He was made (not re-made)

2 John 1 "For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist."

Jesus is the co-inheritor of God with us. One cannot inherit himself, as would be the case if we accept the concept of the trinity. And he also needed salvation.

Jesus never once expresses to his disciples that he is really God masquerading as a human being. Why would that be..... if that understanding was the truth? Jesus tells everyone he gave up his LIFE (not just his disguise body or his fake human nature charade). An immortal cannot die, therefore, if Christ were an immortal claiming he was sacrificing his life and not just a mortal disguise, then he lied. If we accept the doctrine of the trinity we most conclude that Jesus could not possibly give up a life that was immortal but had to be limited to only shedding the painful and very limited mortal shell he had temporarily inhabited, just like an overcoat.

If we accept the notion of the trinity we are forced to accept the fact that God misrepresented Himself constantly about being a man and being mortal and having the capacity to sin and actualy dying and sacrificing His life and coming back from the dead. ... when God states that He is incaplable of being seen by mortal men, of being tempted or dying. If we limit the greatness of the Creator to humanity, we are diminishing the glory of God and making God a reflection of ourselves, as well as rendering the challenges of Jesus and his victory as utterly shallow and meaningless. Every form of false doctrine elevates mortal man and degrades our Creator.

I believe He does in John 14.

I believe this presumes that Jesus has a spiritual nature as I believe we all do. There is no conotation of giving up one's spiritual existence when Jesus say that He lays down His life and at His death He commends His spirit to the Father's hands which is metaphoric since the Father doesn't have hands.

I believe there is no suorting scripture for this.

I believe there is nothing to support this notion.

I believe mortality does not equate to false doctrine.

 

[Muffled]

I couldn't have said it better myself. Great definition,sir

I am not much interested in the dieing on the cross part. I believe no-one loves us enough to do that other than God Himself.

 

[Muffled]

"Before Abraham was, I Am" Jesus is just stating the the Gospel was preached all the way back to Abraham. That's all. It's not talking about the pre-existence of Christ at all.

John 1 isnt talking about Christ yet, it's talking about the "logos", God's plans, thoughts and reason. Yes, Jesus was in it too, the same with us. Then in verse 14 it talks about Jesus.

I believe there is no way to derive that meaning from the text but I would like to see you try.

I believe God has always existed, so that Spirit in Him always existed but Christ only pre-exists in prophecy.

I believe the context ties the two together, I don't know what you are talking about when you say "same with us."

 

[Estro Felino]

I am not much interested in the dieing on the cross part. I believe no-one loves us enough to do that other than God Himself.

yes...the only difference is that I believe that humans can love as God does

 

[AllanV]

yes...the only difference is that I believe that humans can love as God does

Yes and we need to crucify within by steeping through a crucial threshold from own nature with the obvious personality traits to the nature of Jesus. God will energize the power of Love apparent in the nature of Jesus.

And this can occur in a human form that is completely purified. But it can not be comprehended in the natural mind

I know most if not all Christians are taught the doctrine that says that their own rebellious nature is acceptable to God. It is perfect and Holy through the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross.
But the reality is what is leading them into everything they do. By observation it must be their own self.
There is a transformation required where the mind is renewed. Every thought must be brought into the obedience of Christ.
If Adam has one consciousness that brings a rebellious nature and sin, then Christ is the consciousness and nature that gives life and takes one all the way to immortality.

 

[Estro Felino]

Yes and we need to crucify within by steeping through a crucial threshold from own nature with the obvious personality traits to the nature of Jesus. God will energize the power of Love apparent in the nature of Jesus.



I know most if not all Christians are taught the doctrine that says that their own rebellious nature is acceptable to God. It is perfect and Holy through the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross.
But the reality is what is leading them into everything they do. By observation it must be their own self.
There is a transformation required where the mind is renewed. Every thought must be brought into the obedience of Christ.
If Adam has one consciousness that brings a rebellious nature and sin, then Christ is the consciousness and nature that gives life and takes one all the way to immortaly.

I'm Pelagian so I totally agree

 

[Desert Snake]

I'm Pelagian so I totally agree

However just because I'm not pelagian, doesn't mean I 'disagree'.

 

[moorea944]

I believe there is no way to derive that meaning from the text but I would like to see you try.

I believe God has always existed, so that Spirit in Him always existed but Christ only pre-exists in prophecy.

I believe the context ties the two together, I don't know what you are talking about when you say "same with us."

Sorry about that. I'll rephase what I stated. I didnt state that Jesus pre-existed. I was saying that God knew Jesus before he was born, but in plan. Scripture also tells us that it was the same case with Jeremiah and us. We werent born yet, but God already knew who we were going to be. That's all. Sorry I wasnt more clear on that.

 

[kjv4me2you]

(John 8:58 KJV) Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

When Jesus spoke of being before Abraham, he was referring to God's foreknowledge as understood revealed in scripture with YaH knowing Jeremiah and ordaining him before he was formed.

(Jer 1:4 KJV) Then the word of YHWH-YaH came unto me-Jeremiah, saying,
(Jer 1:5 KJV) Before I-YHWH formed thee-Jeremiah in the belly I-YHWH_YaH knew thee-Jeremiah; and before thou-Jeremiah camest forth out of the womb I-YHWH-YaH sanctified thee-Jeremiah, and I-YHWH-YaH ordained thee-Jeremiah a prophet unto the nations.
YHWH-YaH also ordained Jesus a prophet before He formed Jesus in the womb of Mary.

JESUS THE PROPHET
(Deu 18:18 KJV) I-YaH will raise them-Israel up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee -Moses and will put my-YaH's words in his-Jesus' mouth; and he-Jesus shall speak unto them-Israel all that I-YHWH-YaH shall command him-Jesus.
.
YHWH-YaH is speaking to Moses about the prophet Jesus and Peter declares in Acts 3:22 that Jesus was that prophet of Duet 18:18.

Peter knows Jesus was that prophet like Moses.

Peter quotes Duet 18:18 in (Acts 3:22 KJV) For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall YHWH your God-Elohim raise up unto you of your brethren(Israe), like unto me-Moses; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

Moses was not YHWH-YaH Elohim Shaddai- YaH God Almighty but he was a God to Pharaoh.

Moses was a prophet Duet 18:18 and a God Exo 7:1 to Pharaoh and Jesus was a prophet Act 3:22.
(Exo 7:1 KJV) And YHWH-YaH said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a God to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

Jesus the son of man was not YHWH-YaH Elohim Shaddai- YaH God Almighty but he was a God like Moses because of Mashiach-Christ's spirit the image of God.

Moses had Mashiach Christ's spirit
(Isa 63:11 KJV) Then he-Isaiah remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he YHWH-YaH that brought them-Israel up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?

"The shepherd of YHWH-YaH's flock" was Mashiach-Christ-Messias- the anointing spirit in Moses and in Israel's prophets.

MY INTERPRETATION OF WHAT ISAIAH SAID IN ISA 63:11
Isaiah said in Isa 63:11 "Where is he ( YHWH-YaH) that stirred H5927-alah' Israel up-H5972-alah" out of the sea with the shepherdH7462-associate of YHWH-YaH's flock? Where is YHWH-YaH that "put-H7760-ordained-sum siym YHWH-Yah's portionH6944-qôdesh SpiritH7307-7306-rûach-wind by resemblance of breath within him-Moses and Israel the Son of YHWH-YaH even Yah's Firstborn.

When YHWH-YaH brought Israel out of Egypt's bondage, YHWH-YaH declares to Pharaoh that Israel is YaH's my Son even YaH's Firstborn Son
(Exo 4:22 KJV) And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith YHWH-YaH, Israel is my Son, even my Firstborn:

The reason YHWH-YaH called Israel His Son, even YaH's Firstborn is because of Mashiach-Christ in Israel's prophets.

willyah

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

(John 8:58 KJV) Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

When Jesus spoke of being before Abraham, he was referring to God's foreknowledge as seen with YaH knowing Jeremiah.

(Jer 1:4 KJV) Then the word of YHWH-YaH came unto me-Jeremiah, saying,
(Jer 1:5 KJV) Before I-YHWH formed thee-Jeremiah in the belly I-YHWH_YaH knew thee-Jeremiah; and before thou-Jeremiah camest forth out of the womb I-YHWH-YaH sanctified thee-Jeremiah, and I-YHWH-YaH ordained thee-Jeremiah a prophet unto the nations.

YHWH-YaH also ordained Jesus a prophet before He formed Jesus in the womb of Mary.
(Deu 18:18 KJV) I-YaH will raise them-Israel up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee -Moses and will put my-YaH's words in his-Jesus' mouth; and he-esus shall speak unto them-Israel all that I-YHWH-YaH shall command him-Jesus.
.
YHWH-YaH is speaking to Moses about the prophet Jesus and Peter declares in Acts 3:22 that Jesus was the prophet of Duet 18:18.

Peter knows Jesus was that prophet like Moses
(Acts 3:22 KJV) For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

Moses was a to Pharaoh
(Exo 7:1 KJV) And YHWH-YaH said unto Moses , See, I have made thee a God-Elohim,
to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet

How do you see it as foreknowledge from the text itself? There's nothing in John 8:58 that suggests that. Why would the Jews try to stone Him over that?

Furthermore, what was the glory Jesus had with the Father before the creation of the world if it was just foreknowledge? (John 17:5)

 

[moorea944]

1. The Jews did like Jesus for many reasons. Some of them were that Jesus kept on telling them that they were corrupt and not keeping the law. They didnt like that Jesus called himself the son of God. They didnt like the fact that their God would have a son thru a woman. So many things.

2. John 17. Jesus was in the mind of God before creation. Bible is clear on that. God created everything. God knew he would have a son. He knew that Adam & Eve would sin. Therefor, He would have to bring a son into the world to take away sin.