"What We Call God's Justice...."

[Sunstone]

"What we call God's justice is only man's idea of what he would do if he were God." -- Elbert Hubbard.

Do you think Hubbard is right? Why or why not? And if so, would you be so kind as to give an example of something that folks tend to think of as "God's justice", but which is really "only man's idea, etc."?

If you disagree with Hubbard, why do you disagree? And if "God's justice" is more than man's idea of it, then how do we know it is more than man's idea of it? Is there any way we can be certain God's justice is actually God's justice?

 

[JRMcC]

The classic question for someone who believes God determines what is right and wrong is: " If God said 'insert horrible act here' is good, would it be good?"
Most of the time I think the answer will be no, of course not, God would never say that is right. But that doesn't sound like a logically or philosophically sound response to me. It sounds like human judgement comes first, and then we impose that on what we call God.

 

[Sunstone]

The classic question for someone who believes God determines what is right and wrong is: " If God said 'insert horrible act here' is good, would it be good?"
Most of the time I think the answer will be no, of course not, God would never say that is right. But that doesn't sound like a logically or philosophically sound response to me. It sounds like human judgement comes first, and then we impose that on what we call God.

That strikes me as a rather brilliant way to answer the questions I posed. Thanks!

 

[Sunstone]

One thing that occurs to me is that the Book of Job might provide a counter-example to Hubbard's notion in so far as it would seem the Book's message is something along the lines of "We humans do not understand why God does what God does, nor His justice, nor His righteousness."

 

[George-ananda]

"What we call God's justice is only man's idea of what he would do if he were God." -- Elbert Hubbard.

Do you think Hubbard is right?

Yes, I agree.

And if so, would you be so kind as to give an example of something that folks tend to think of as "God's justice", but which is really "only man's idea, etc."?

I think the so-called Problem of Evil is an example. Man thinks of this one life as all there is so he doesn't see all the causes and effects beyond that and before that and thinks God lacks benevolence. God has the full perspective so it looks quite different from his perspective

 

[Guy Threepwood]

One thing that occurs to me is that the Book of Job might provide a counter-example to Hubbard's notion in so far as it would seem the Book's message is something along the lines of "We humans do not understand why God does what God does, nor His justice, nor His righteousness."

Exactly, a central premise of faith is accepting that we don't expect to understand the reason for everything, but that there is one. The opposite of what Hubbard is saying

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

"What we call God's justice is only man's idea of what he would do if he were God." -- Elbert Hubbard.

*a psychopath's

Normal human beings wouldn't have done half the crap attributed to the OT deity.

 

[Meriweather]

"What we call God's justice is only man's idea of what he would do if he were God." -- Elbert Hubbard.

Do you think Hubbard is right? Why or why not? And if so, would you be so kind as to give an example of something that folks tend to think of as "God's justice", but which is really "only man's idea, etc."?

If you disagree with Hubbard, why do you disagree? And if "God's justice" is more than man's idea of it, then how do we know it is more than man's idea of it? Is there any way we can be certain God's justice is actually God's justice?

People may have trouble envisioning God's overwhelming love and compassion for each of us. As such, we may not appreciation the healing power of this love and compassion when the wrong is done against us, or the readiness of the wrong-doer to emulate God and extend greater love and compassion to those he has wronged.

Man's justice seems to begin and end with punishment. A lack of love (and sometimes of being loved) drives us to wrong-doing, and there is no love and compassion to help us through and out of the predicament we got ourselves into. On the other hand, we cannot equate love/compassion with no consequences, or lighter sentences. That's not necessarily love or compassion, it may be enabling. It doesn't help that some wrong-doers don't think they have done anything wrong. In other words, mankind hasn't the power or the knowledge to judge and assist as God does. However, perhaps we could do better than we currently are?