What will happen to organized religion in the next 50 years?

[Gomeza]

It is not the intention of Jehovah's witnesses to make nuisances of themselves. To the contrary, Jw's freely give of their time and resources to share a message of comfort and hope with their neighbors, often at considerable personal expense. None of Jw's are paid to share the Bible's hope, but volunteer out of love for their neighbor and love for God. It seems to me the depth of impudent disrespect to mistreat such kind, inoffensive people. But Jesus said it would be so: "Happy are you when people reproach you and persecute you...rejoice and leap for joy...for in that way they persecuted the prophets prior to you." (Matthew 5:11,12)

It may not be the stated purpose of religiously motivated door to door canvassers to make nuisances of themselves but it is certainly the result. Especially when they are one group of several.

As for justifying this transgression with a bible passage all I can add is this: don't you know a clever sales force motivational ploy when you see it? It borders on brilliant in terms of motivating an unpaid group of volunteers who will inevitably suffer abuse as they canvas for the cause.

 

[Skwim]

It is not the intention of Jehovah's witnesses to make nuisances of themselves. To the contrary, Jw's freely give of their time and resources to share a message of comfort and hope with their neighbors, often at considerable personal expense. None of Jw's are paid to share the Bible's hope, but volunteer out of love for their neighbor and love for God. It seems to me the depth of impudent disrespect to mistreat such kind, inoffensive people. But Jesus said it would be so: "Happy are you when people reproach you and persecute you...rejoice and leap for joy...for in that way they persecuted the prophets prior to you." (Matthew 5:11,12)

Knowing that most people, having already committed themselves to a religion or a religious denomination, evidently the JWs attitude is, "We don't care how many people we **** off by knocking on their door as long as we can convert one someone in the process. Annoying and alienating others is obviously of little concern to JWs.

 

[Gomeza]

Knowing that most people, having already committed themselves to a religion or a religious denomination, evidently the JWs attitude is, "We don't care how many people we **** off by knocking on their door as long as we can convert one someone in the process. Annoying and alienating others is obviously of little concern to JWs.

. . . and that is really the point of their canvassing efforts. It is nothing more than a perpetual subscription drive. However, I don't doubt that those who have drunk the Kool Aid have convinced themselves that they are somehow performing a benevolent social service.

 

[rusra02]

. . . and that is really the point of their canvassing efforts. It is nothing more than a perpetual subscription drive. However, I don't doubt that those who have drunk the Kool Aid have convinced themselves that they are somehow performing a benevolent social service.

Jehovah's witnesses are following the example of Jesus Christ, who similarly preached to people, and experienced similar persecution. (Matthew 4:23,Acts 20:20,21) As to the point or purposes of their doing this preaching work, it is to honor God and bring comfort and hope to people. As Romans 10:13-15 explains: For "everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved." However, how will they call on him in whom they have not put faith? How, in turn, will they put faith in him of whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent forth? Just as it is written: "How comely are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!" Jws believe it is God's will that the good news of His Kingdom be preached, and they are determined to do this work. (Matthew 24:14,1 Timothy 2:3,4) Millions of people appreciate the visits of Jws to their homes, and gladly welcome them.

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[Heathen Hammer]

Millions? And where are they?

 

[rusra02]

Knowing that most people, having already committed themselves to a religion or a religious denomination, evidently the JWs attitude is, "We don't care how many people we **** off by knocking on their door as long as we can convert one someone in the process. Annoying and alienating others is obviously of little concern to JWs.

A man sits entranced by the TV show he's watching, completely unaware his house is burning. A loud, persistent knock at the door grabs his attention. He opens it to see a neighbor warning him that his house is on fire. "Leave me alone. Can't you see I'm busy? Stop bothering me!" he shouts and slams the door, returning his attention to the TV screen,thinking how annoying his neighbor was to interrupt his evening.

 

[rusra02]

Millions? And where are they?

All over the world. Over 8.4 million people study the Bible with Jws, on average, each month, including over 700,000 in the U.S. Many millions more receive their visits to explain the Bible with friendly appreciation.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

A man sits entranced by the TV show he's watching, completely unaware his house is burning. A loud, persistent knock at the door grabs his attention. He opens it to see a neighbor warning him that his house is on fire. "Leave me alone. Can't you see I'm busy? Stop bothering me!" he shouts and slams the door, returning his attention to the TV screen,thinking how annoying his neighbor was to interrupt his evening.

Im sure that makes you feel like those invasive unwanted visits, are not.

The Great Commission was only given to those Jesus taught directly, personally. It was never meant for anyone else to take up; that instruction was given by someone who also chose independently to take it up, and was not taught by Jesus.

Basically it's like someone who read an issue of Kung Fu magazine thinking he can open a dojo.

 

[beerisit]

Jehovah's witnesses are following the example of Jesus Christ, who similarly preached to people, and experienced similar persecution. (Matthew 4:23,Acts 20:20,21) As to the point or purposes of their doing this preaching work, it is to honor God and bring comfort and hope to people. As Romans 10:13-15 explains: For "everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved." However, how will they call on him in whom they have not put faith? How, in turn, will they put faith in him of whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent forth? Just as it is written: "How comely are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!" Jws believe it is God's will that the good news of His Kingdom be preached, and they are determined to do this work. (Matthew 24:14,1 Timothy 2:3,4) Millions of people appreciate the visits of Jws to their homes, and gladly welcome them.

OK I just called out "I call on the name of Jehovah" so I'm saved, btw I'd like a seat on the bus of the Gross Thousand. I'll work on that. The rest of you are on your own. Don't the JW's believe that because the JW's exist all of the alleged prophecies Charles Russell perceived in the bible regarding the end times were now fulfilled and the end was imminent? It is a firmly held tenet of the JW's that they and their preaching are in fact god's final trigger for the end?
But it doesn't really matter I'm saved, the unsaved class can kiss my ****, oh sorry to steal your song.:run:

 

[work in progress]

Jehovah's witnesses are following the example of Jesus Christ, who similarly preached to people, and experienced similar persecution. (Matthew 4:23,Acts 20:20,21) As to the point or purposes of their doing this preaching work, it is to honor God and bring comfort and hope to people. As Romans 10:13-15 explains: For "everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved." However, how will they call on him in whom they have not put faith? How, in turn, will they put faith in him of whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent forth? Just as it is written: "How comely are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!" Jws believe it is God's will that the good news of His Kingdom be preached, and they are determined to do this work. (Matthew 24:14,1 Timothy 2:3,4) Millions of people appreciate the visits of Jws to their homes, and gladly welcome them.

Your religion is one that should have died out decades ago, after successive failed "prophecies," especially the last time the Governing Body picked a year for the end of this world - 1975. If they hadn't started walking back that end of the world prediction a couple of years prior -- with a qualifier that stated the Fall of 75 was just 6000 years after Adam's creation and we didn't know exactly how much longer we would have to wait until 6000 years post-Eve -- the final creation) the Kingdom Halls would have emptied out when 1976 rolled around!

As history played out in the 70's, there were thousands of Jehovah's Witnesses who started questioning just how long they would have to wait for 6000 years after Eve, and Jesus establishing God's Kingdom on Earth., and they mostly just quietly stopped attending and going door to door. A poll on JW's in Canada during the 80's found that over two thirds of baptized Witnesses left within five years of joining. And this where Gomeza's "permanent subscription drive" analogy fits, as a description of the real need for constant proselytizing. After leaving home, every member of my family, including my father...who forced his family in to this religion...ended up leaving, and the majority of the families that I knew who were members in the 70's, have also moved on. The Kingdom Halls are still there; but they are filled with families who have all been brought in in more recent years. And, if it was just about failed prophecies, no one would care much! But this is an autocratic, authoritarian religion, run by a handful of men in New York, who have caused unnecessary suffering to many, by demanding adherence to prohibitions on using blood, and then waffling on the application of that ban when applied to transplant and dialysis patients. Plus the Witnesses' leadership have played their own games hiding sex abuse scandals (just like the Catholic Church) and trying to prevent the prosecution of many elders for sex crimes.

The founder of this religion - Charles Taze Russell, thought he was creating a movement that would empty the churches, and win over the vast majority of people to his International Bible Students movement, before the end of times. Instead, what he created, ended up just being another marginal fringe religion that has to keep on sending all members out proselytizing, and seeking out new members to keep itself alive.

 

[rusra02]

Your religion is one that should have died out decades ago, after successive failed "prophecies," especially the last time the Governing Body picked a year for the end of this world - 1975. If they hadn't started walking back that end of the world prediction a couple of years prior -- with a qualifier that stated the Fall of 75 was just 6000 years after Adam's creation and we didn't know exactly how much longer we would have to wait until 6000 years post-Eve -- the final creation) the Kingdom Halls would have emptied out when 1976 rolled around!

As history played out in the 70's, there were thousands of Jehovah's Witnesses who started questioning just how long they would have to wait for 6000 years after Eve, and Jesus establishing God's Kingdom on Earth., and they mostly just quietly stopped attending and going door to door. A poll on JW's in Canada during the 80's found that over two thirds of baptized Witnesses left within five years of joining. And this where Gomeza's "permanent subscription drive" analogy fits, as a description of the real need for constant proselytizing. After leaving home, every member of my family, including my father...who forced his family in to this religion...ended up leaving, and the majority of the families that I knew who were members in the 70's, have also moved on. The Kingdom Halls are still there; but they are filled with families who have all been brought in in more recent years. And, if it was just about failed prophecies, no one would care much! But this is an autocratic, authoritarian religion, run by a handful of men in New York, who have caused unnecessary suffering to many, by demanding adherence to prohibitions on using blood, and then waffling on the application of that ban when applied to transplant and dialysis patients. Plus the Witnesses' leadership have played their own games hiding sex abuse scandals (just like the Catholic Church) and trying to prevent the prosecution of many elders for sex crimes.

The founder of this religion - Charles Taze Russell, thought he was creating a movement that would empty the churches, and win over the vast majority of people to his International Bible Students movement, before the end of times. Instead, what he created, ended up just being another marginal fringe religion that has to keep on sending all members out proselytizing, and seeking out new members to keep itself alive.

You are presenting a very distorted and inaccurate view of Jws. In 1978, there were 2,086,698 Jws world wide in 205 lands. As of 2012, there are 7,395,672 Jws in 236 lands. It is true some leave the faith, as they did in the early Christian congregation, for a variety of reasons. (1 John 2:19, 2 Timothy 4:10) Following the Christ requires dedication and strong faith, as well as a spirit of self-sacrifice. Many are simply unwilling to do this.(Luke 9:23)
The command to "abstain from...blood" does not come from a "handful of men in New York" as you allege, but from the Bible. (Acts 15:29) Neither is this command waived for dialysis or transplant patients, as you allege.
Jw's do not "hide sex abuse scandals" nor try to prevent prosecution of anyone for sex crimes. Unrepentant sexual predators are expelled from association with Jws, as I am persuaded you already know.
The command to preach and teach comes from the Bible also, and Jws are the only religion that are truly following that command. (Acts 10:42,43, Matthew 28:19,20)

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[rusra02]

Im sure that makes you feel like those invasive unwanted visits, are not.

The Great Commission was only given to those Jesus taught directly, personally. It was never meant for anyone else to take up; that instruction was given by someone who also chose independently to take it up, and was not taught by Jesus.

Basically it's like someone who read an issue of Kung Fu magazine thinking he can open a dojo.

You are wrong, of course, about Jesus commission being given to only those personally taught by Jesus. The Bible clearly shows sharing one's faith and witnessing to others is a Christian requirement. (Romans 10:9,10) Paul encouraged the early Christians to "always offer to God a sacrifice of praise, that is, the fruit of lips which make public declaration to his name." (Hebrews 13:15) When all the early Christians were scattered from Jerusalem by persecution, (all except the apostles), the Bible states that "those who had been scattered went through the land declaring the good news of the word." (Acts 8:4)

Philip Schaff is one of many who attests that the ALL the early Christians were preachers. He writes in History of the Christian Church: "every congregation was a missionary society and every Christian believer a missionary." It is only after the great apostasy from true Christianity occurred that a titled clergy class arose and claimed the sole perogative as preachers and teachers.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

You are wrong, of course, about Jesus commission being given to only those personally taught by Jesus. The Bible clearly shows sharing one's faith and witnessing to others is a Christian requirement. (Romans 10:9,10) Paul encouraged the early Christians to "always offer to God a sacrifice of praise, that is, the fruit of lips which make public declaration to his name." (Hebrews 13:15) When all the early Christians were scattered from Jerusalem by persecution, (all except the apostles), the Bible states that "those who had been scattered went through the land declaring the good news of the word." (Acts 8:4)

Philip Schaff is one of many who attests that the ALL the early Christians were preachers. He writes in History of the Christian Church: "every congregation was a missionary society and every Christian believer a missionary." It is only after the great apostasy from true Christianity occurred that a titled clergy class arose and claimed the sole perogative as preachers and teachers.

Yes, as I knew, you would quote Paul.

That's the problem.

Paul was the self-appointed person I spoke of. He had no authority to tell anyone this.

 

[rusra02]

Yes, as I knew, you would quote Paul.

That's the problem.

Paul was the self-appointed person I spoke of. He had no authority to tell anyone this.

Far from being self-appointed, Jesus Christ told the man sent to help Paul learn the truth: "this man [Paul] is a chosen vessel to me to bear my name to the nations as well as to kings and the sons of Israel. for I shall show him plainly how many things he must suffer for my name." (Acts 9:15,16) Paul could write, therefore: "For the purpose of this witness I was appointed a preacher and an apostle...a teacher of nations in the matter of faith and truth." Paul's credentials as an apostle appointed by Christ were accepted by the early congregation and those taking the lead. (2 Peter 3:15,16) The testimony of the Bible clearly establishes Paul's rightful authority as Christ's apostle to the nations.

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[work in progress]

You are presenting a very distorted and inaccurate view of Jws. In 1978, there were 2,086,698 Jws world wide in 205 lands. As of 2012, there are 7,395,672 Jws in 236 lands. It is true some leave the faith, as they did in the early Christian congregation, for a variety of reasons. (1 John 2:19, 2 Timothy 4:10) Following the Christ requires dedication and strong faith, as well as a spirit of self-sacrifice. Many are simply unwilling to do this.(Luke 9:23)

No, you are presenting the distortions and inaccuracies; because you are just presenting the official line the Watchtower Society presents to the public. The only time they acknowledged a real decline in publishers was in the late 70's, and the losses were blamed on those who lost faith because of an inaccurate understanding of God's word. Even by 1975, the publications that were proclaiming the year 1975 heralding the end of this system of things (such as Life Everlasting In The Freedom Of the Sons of God) had been removed from Kingdom Hall libraries, and since my father had received that book several years before actually joining, he wasn't aware that he had a prohibited book sitting on his library shelf!

What is most striking...especially when we consider that this is a religion that claims exclusivity in being the only Christians who will be saved when the Kingdom is established, is how much the growth rate has fallen since the time I was involved. Back then, when learning the door to door ministry, we were taught to mention the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses was the fastest growing religion in the world wherever possible, to at least make the subject curious about what they might be missing out on. Nowadays, as a statistical analysis of the numbers of average publishers, no. of baptisms, and numbers attending the annual memorial service show -- the rate of growth post-1995 is less than half of what it was prior: A detailed analysis of Watchtower Statistics regarding publishers, baptisms and leavers. concluding that:

The Watchtower explains the Last Days have continued so long as Jehovah desires all to attain to repentance. If only active Jehovahs Witnesses will be saved then this Scripture does not make sense. On average, over 200,000 people are born everyday, but the number of active Jehovah's Witnesses increases by only 224 (2005 daily increase in average publishers). Each day that Armageddon delays requires Jehovah to destroy an extra 200,000 people.
It has been stated that Jehovah is speeding up the growth of the Watchtower Society, with predictions that the momentum would continue.

JEHOVAH is now speeding up the ingathering of sheeplike ones. Surely, then, this is no time for his people to slow down in their Kingdom-preaching and disciple-making work. (Isaiah 60:8, 22; Matthew 24:14; 28:19, 20) Indeed, increased witnessing activity by so many more publishers and pioneers is now stirring up the world field. And the momentum of this joyous ingathering will yet grow.Isaiah 60:11 Watchtower 1988 Jul 15 p.15
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Statistics show this no longer holds true. It will take major policy change for the Watchtower Society to have a hope of turning this trend around and start growing at any significant rate.

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Even back in my middle teen years, when I believed, I found the fact that the vast majority of people in the world would be unsaved to be a troubling concept always in the back of my mind. This is even more the case now that the rate of growth of this religion, even with requiring more hours of proselytizing, can never catch up with the rate of population growth in the world. So, the longer it takes to reach whenever that final day is supposed to be, the more people are decimated during the end times. For the record, I believe something similar to a massive dieoff of the world population is going to happen at some time in the coming decades; but if I believed that there was some divine controlling force allowing it to happen and doing nothing to stop it, I would say that this god is a trickster, who would treat his so called prize creation worse than a child would a pet dog, cat, or even a hamster!

The command to "abstain from...blood" does not come from a "handful of men in New York" as you allege, but from the Bible. (Acts 15:29) Neither is this command waived for dialysis or transplant patients, as you allege.

Well then, this is one more change that I wasn't aware of! An understanding from many years ago was that kidney dialysis was just a mechanical continuation of the circulatory system. But, if the blood issue itself was so important, why was it not made an issue before Rutherford took over? It's also worth noting that J.W.'s were anti-vaccers between 1921 and 1952 Medical Advice - Dangerous Watchtower Mistakes

Jw's do not "hide sex abuse scandals" nor try to prevent prosecution of anyone for sex crimes. Unrepentant sexual predators are expelled from association with Jws, as I am persuaded you already know.
The command to preach and teach comes from the Bible also, and Jws are the only religion that are truly following that command. (Acts 10:42,43, Matthew 28:19,20)

About five years ago, the Organization made the network news cycle when they had to settle 9 abuse cases. This NBC News clip shows they had no intention to notify police after learning about the abuse cases, and just like the abuse scandals involving the Catholic Church and other authoritarian religions, they are almost certainly the tip of the iceberg, since there are so many real and imagined obstacles standing in the way of the young victims notifying anyone about the crimes. These scandals are especially noteworthy, since Jehovah's Witnesses' literature trumpets every example of corruption and scandal in other religions, but acts in the same way as the others when scandal is at their door:
[youtube]QLAC9kS_EqM[/youtube]
NBC Jehovah's Witnesses child sexual abuse - YouTube

If we can get this little side issue about one particular authoritarian sect in the broader frame of what happens to organized religion in the next 50 years -- the biggest enemy of these groups now is the internet itself! With the arrival of internet networking, the open availability of information, fact-checking is so much easier than it was 30 or 40 years ago! I've noticed the same thing with ex-mormon groups, and in many others who have started to feel uneasy and question coercive, authoritarian cults and religions. This is even the case outside religion altogether....as anyone who is unsure about ESP, or UFO's, whether the Mayan Calendar actually predicts the end in 2012, or watched some bs conspiracy show on TV...like Fox...that the Apollo Moon Landings were fake....all of these stories have fact-checking watchdog websites that the curious viewer can go to if they really want to have a second opinion, and weigh in some contradictory facts to the stories they had been presented before. Back in the old days, no one had the time for all of this! Or more correctly, those of us who did, had to do what I did back in the 70's with the J.W.'s -- spend an idle winter while unemployed going to the library every day, researching information and even requesting books from other libraries. Now, with the internet, there is a deluge of information, and the only challenge is to learn some basic skeptical analysis tools to evaluate its authenticity.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What I see is not a decline in belief in God and spirituality but more people in the 'Spiritual but not Religious' category.

How does one separate spiritual but not religious?
Doesn't one have to be spiritual to worship ?

Religious waters [people] are drying up spiritually [Rev. 17 vs 1,15].
They have an outward form of godly devotion but prove false to it.
The world's religious sector thinks of herself as some sort of religious 'queen' that will never see decline or demise [Rev. 18 vs 7,8].
Her end however is not happening by a slow decline but comes by surprise or suddenly as when a thief arrives [1st Thess. 5 vs 2,3].

Scripture shows in the past when people became spiritually dried up [played false to God] that God used the political/military world as his long arm of the law to go against them. Already the United Nations sees a hauntingly dangerous religious climate brewing in today's world such as with religious terrorism. How does one keep nuclear weapons out of the hands of such religious terrorists? With backing the UN can be strengthened to become God's modern-day long arm of the law to go against all run afoul religions.
For the sake of 'peace and security' or 'peace and safety' they will need to act much sooner than 50 years and possibly act even sooner than 5 years.

 

[Gomeza]

Even back in my middle teen years, when I believed, I found the fact that the vast majority of people in the world would be unsaved to be a troubling concept always in the back of my mind. This is even more the case now that the rate of growth of this religion, even with requiring more hours of proselytizing, can never catch up with the rate of population growth in the world. So, the longer it takes to reach whenever that final day is supposed to be, the more people are decimated during the end times. For the record, I believe something similar to a massive dieoff of the world population is going to happen at some time in the coming decades; but if I believed that there was some divine controlling force allowing it to happen and doing nothing to stop it, I would say that this god is a trickster, who would treat his so called prize creation worse than a child would a pet dog, cat, or even a hamster!

I too have always had a problem with beliefs held by so many people of so many religions and sects which almost flippantly dismisses the damnation of all of humanity except themselves. It is sadly amusing to hear this from so many different groups around the world. You use the word "trickster", I would expand on this by adding that to adhere to a belief of such exclusivity by which all of humanity is condemned except an historically miniscule segment can be nothing more than a man made con. One designed to solicit action, subscription or wealth from those not discerning enough to realize that the God they claim to be serving must be redefined as fallible, spiteful, vain and unloving.

How else could a being capable of this be defined?

 

[Desfox]

Well being a believer, I don't particularity enjoy talking in these terms, but here goes.

Religion has always been extremely chaotic, with major faiths, minority faiths, and cults competing amongst each other.

As Christianity in America has been shrinking, it has been growing greatly in China (interestingly enough) Islam is also spreading rapidly throughout the world.

The fact is that many religions deal with questions like:
"Why are we here" and
"Where will I go when I die"

They also provide codes for living and discipline.

These ideas will never become unimportant to humanity, so religion(thus organized religion as well) will continue to exist.

 

[Gomeza]

Well being a believer, I don't particularity enjoy talking in these terms, but here goes.

Religion has always been extremely chaotic, with major faiths, minority faiths, and cults competing amongst each other.

As Christianity in America has been shrinking, it has been growing greatly in China (interestingly enough) Islam is also spreading rapidly throughout the world.

The fact is that many religions deal with questions like:
"Why are we here" and
"Where will I go when I die"

They also provide codes for living and discipline.

These ideas will never become unimportant to humanity, so religion(thus organized religion as well) will continue to exist.

You seem to be speaking more in terms of religious beliefs than about organized religion. If you are a young person I would guess it is hard to visualize the dramatic changes that have taken place in the last 50 years. I cannot disagree however with the notion that the importance of religious beliefs to our species will insure that they will always exist in some form but you seem to not realize that your Christian brethren have been inflating the numbers concerning China.

Chinese authorities flatly deny that Christianity has grown to 130 million or more people in China placing the real numbers at about 1/10th of claims made by some Christian groups. The only real truth in these claims is in the word "growth", doubling in size from a few million to 12 million or so in the last few decades could even be referred to as dramatic as you have described but these numbers are insignificant in stemming the overall worldwide decline.

 

[Desfox]

I would caution in you using the government of China as an absolute source. I don't think you truly believe the Chinese government finds joy in spreading the truth, and does not believe in the use of propaganda.

The Chinese government is expressly atheist, and is an unreliable singular source of information.

The Chinese government puts the Christian population around 25 million while many independent sources conservatively put it at 60 million.

Can't post URLs, I found this on BBC news, UK, online magazine, article titled "Christians in China: Is the country in spiritual crisis?"