What will heaven be like?

[TLK Valentine]

No, I believe there will be plenty of things to do in heaven, so it won't be boring. One thing people who are in heaven will be doing is helping those who are in hell get out of hell.

Plenty to do, but will it be anything but busy work? Is failure an option in heaven?

And I keep having to remind myself that you're Baha'i; In Chrstianity, getting out of Hell isn't on the table.

You may well find out what the meaning of this life was without even having to ask. On the other hand I think there will be other more advanced souls you can ask if you don't realize it yourself.

Hopefully one of them can shed some light on the platypus situation.

No, That is not exactly what Christians believe a glorified body will be. They believe it will be a physical body that is like what they believe Jesus had after He was resurrected. It will be physical but immortal and it will have special powers, just as Jesus had. Other than that I don't know what they believe it will be like.

Transgender will be a moot point since souls in heaven will get a spiritual body and it won't have a gender or sexuality.

Raises some interesting questions, to be sure.

 

[Trailblazer]

Plenty to do, but will it be anything but busy work? Is failure an option in heaven?

I have no idea what souls will be doing in heaven, aside from serving the Cause of God and worshiping God.
No, I don't think failure will be an option as failure is only for this world. We stumble and fall as part of our journey through this life in order to achieve spiritual growth and if we succeeded in getting to heaven there will be no more failures.

And I keep having to remind myself that you're Baha'i; In Chrstianity, getting out of Hell isn't on the table.

I believe there is hope for those who are in hell unless they choose to remain there...
I will tell some Baha'i jokes about heaven in a minute.

Hopefully one of them can shed some light on the platypus situation.

What about that situation do you want to know about?

 

[Trailblazer]

@TLK Valentine
@Sgt. Pepper

Here are the Baha'i jokes I was referring to.

A Baha'i dies and is met at the Gates of Heaven by St. Peter, who welcomes him and offers to show him around to get him oriented. "Heaven," St. Peter says, "is like a huge mansion, with lots of rooms in it. Here, for example, is the room where all of the Jews stay." He opens a door and lets him look inside, where a great many Jews are living.

"Over here," St. Peter says, "is where the Muslims stay." Again, he opens the door and lets the Baha'i look in for a few minutes. "This next room is for the Buddhists." Again, he is shown a room full of people. This goes on for a time, until St. Peter suddenly urges him to remain quiet, and they tiptoe past one more door. Once they're past it, the Baha'i asks, "What's in there, and why do we have to be so quiet?"

"Ah," St. Peter says. "That's where the Christians live. They like to think they're the only ones up here."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Baha'i dies and is met at the Gates of Heaven by St. Peter, who welcomes him and offers to show him around to get him oriented. To make this short, I'll just say he goes through the same deal as in the previous joke, except he gets to see the Christians. Finally, they come to one last door, which St. Peter opens. "This was built for the Baha'is," he says. But when the Baha'i looks in, he finds that the room is empty!

"Oh no!" he cries. "This can't be! How can I be the only Baha'i here??"

"Calm down," St. Peter says. "The Baha'is are all off travel teaching in hell."

 

[TLK Valentine]

I have no idea what souls will be doing in heaven, aside from serving the Cause of God and worshiping God.

Isn't that what we're supposed to be doing here?

No, I don't think failure will be an option as failure is only for this world. We stumble and fall as part of our journey through this life in order to achieve spiritual growth and if we succeeded in getting to heaven there will be no more failures.

No more failure, no more stumbling and falling... no more growth. What you're describing isn't "heaven," it's stagnation.

Ever see the Twilight Zone episode "A Nice Place to Visit"? A gangster dies and goes to "heaven," which is a casino where he never loses... ater a month, he's so bored of winning that he demands the angel send him to "the other place," to which the angel responds, "This IS 'The Other Place!'"

I believe there is hope for those who are in hell unless they choose to remain there...
I will tell some Baha'i jokes about heaven in a minute.

What about that situation do you want to know about?

That was a joke.

That's the other thing about heaven - no more jokes; no more laughter.
After all, what will be funny in heaven?

 

[Kathryn]

Here's what I believe about Heaven:

I believe first of all that we are all in for some surprises regarding the afterlife. Myself included. It's a great mystery that no one has answers to. But I do believe that terms like "eternal" or "eternity" do imply a time frame so I don't think they are an accurate description of what we'll be doing for how long in heaven. I don't think we will have any sort of time in heaven (mind blown).

I also thing we will be reunited with all sorts of people in a sense but since there's no time, I don't think they will necessarily be waiting for us there. Waiting implies time. But I do think we will run across them.

I don't think we will have bodies as we think of bodies. But I do think everything including whatever we end up as will be perfected.

 

[Trailblazer]

Here's what I believe about Heaven:

I believe first of all that we are all in for some surprises regarding the afterlife. Myself included. It's a great mystery that no one has answers to. But I do believe that terms like "eternal" or "eternity" do imply a time frame so I don't think they are an accurate description of what we'll be doing for how long in heaven. I don't think we will have any sort of time in heaven (mind blown).

I also thing we will be reunited with all sorts of people in a sense but since there's no time, I don't think they will necessarily be waiting for us there. Waiting implies time. But I do think we will run across them.

I don't think we will have bodies as we think of bodies. But I do think everything including whatever we end up as will be perfected.

I could not agree with you more.... that's a *WINNER*

 

[Trailblazer]

Isn't that what we're supposed to be doing here?

I don't know what we are 'supposed to be doing' in Heaven. Only God knows that, and God is keeping it under His Hat.

No more failure, no more stumbling and falling... no more growth. What you're describing isn't "heaven," it's stagnation.

I did not say there would be no more growth. We will continue to grow and advance for all of eternity. We just won't have to grow from stumbling and falling. I do not know exactly HOW we will advance, but there are more things we don't know than we do know about the afterlife.

Ever see the Twilight Zone episode "A Nice Place to Visit"? A gangster dies and goes to "heaven," which is a casino where he never loses... ater a month, he's so bored of winning that he demands the angel send him to "the other place," to which the angel responds, "This IS 'The Other Place!'"

Yes, I have see that episode more than once, but heaven won't be like that. We won't be bored with getting everything we want. In fact, we won't be bored at all because there will be a lot to do. I just don't know exactly what that will be, nobody does.

That was a joke.

That's the other thing about heaven - no more jokes; no more laughter.
After all, what will be funny in heaven?

I don't know if there will be jokes and laughter in heaven, but if there aren't any then God will replace those with something that is much better.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I don't know what we are 'supposed to be doing' in Heaven. Only God knows that, and God is keeping it under His Hat.

I did not say there would be no more growth. We will continue to grow and advance for all of eternity. We just won't have to grow from stumbling and falling. I do not know exactly HOW we will advance, but there are more things we don't know than we do know about the afterlife.

You understand how that might come off sounding like a hat full of empty promises... We grow through learning, we learn through experience, and we gain experience through trial and error - which can't happen if we take "error" out of the equation.

Yes, I have see that episode more than once, but heaven won't be like that. We won't be bored with getting everything we want. In fact, we won't be bored at all because there will be a lot to do. I just don't know exactly what that will be, nobody does.

Well, it's not my style to sign up for any program (let alone an eternal one) blindfolded... so I'm going to pass on "Heaven."

I don't know if there will be jokes and laughter in heaven, but if there aren't any then God will replace those with something that is much better.

As I was saying before -- what would there be to laugh at? All humor involves a sense of wrongness, and what can be "wrong" in Heaven?

 

[Trailblazer]

You understand how that might come off sounding like a hat full of empty promises... We grow through learning, we learn through experience, and we gain experience through trial and error - which can't happen if we take "error" out of the equation.

We do learn by trial and error in THIS life but that does not mean the NEXT life will be the same. There is no reason to believe it will be the same and every reason to believe it will be different... After all, it is not a material world, it is a spiritual world and that is very different.

Why can't you accept the mystery of it? I am not singling you out because you certainly are not the only person who imagines the next world will be like this world. Most nonbelievers assumes that and even some believers do.

Well, it's not my style to sign up for any program (let alone an eternal one) blindfolded... so I'm going to pass on "Heaven."

I used to tell my late husband, who was also a Baha'i, that I do not want to go to the Baha'i afterlife (which is called the Abha Kingdom) and I don't care if it is supposed to be so great... Many a night we would discuss this, and now he is there and I am here all alone. Now I want to go there but I cannot because I have to do my time here.

His point to me was that I cannot 'pass' on the afterlife as it will be whatever God has designed for us and there is nothing we can do about it. Of course I knew he was right since that is only logical. If the soul is immortal, which I believe it is, we are going to continue to exist forever, so it is just a matter of HOW we want to exist, what state we want to exist in, heaven or hell. I opt for heaven even though I am not excited about living forever in an another dimension which is largely unknown.

As I was saying before -- what would there be to laugh at? All humor involves a sense of wrongness, and what can be "wrong" in Heaven?

All humor involves a sense of wrongness? Why do you think that?
But there might be nothing to laugh at, I don't know. If there is nothing to cry about, as the Bible says, then there will probably be nothing to laugh about, since those are complementary feelings.

 

[TLK Valentine]

We do learn by trial and error in THIS life but that does not mean the NEXT life will be the same. There is no reason to believe it will be the same and every reason to believe it will be different... After all, it is not a material world, it is a spiritual world and that is very different.

Is it different, though? Simply saying it "must" be isn't enough. Believing is no substitute for finding out, and wishful thinking is no substitute for believing.
Besides, I've grown in immaterial ways the same way I have in the material - through trial and error.

Why can't you accept the mystery of it? I am not singling you out because you certainly are not the only person who imagines the next world will be like this world. Most nonbelievers assumes that and even some believers do.

Because generally speaking, it's not in human nature to simply "accept" mysteries -- it's more in our nature to figure them out.
Our nature is one of curiosity - experiencing, learning, growing.

Granted, many people can let the unknown remain unknown with a simply shrug and a "well, it's none of my business..." but in the case of life after death, it very much is our business...

I'm not singling you out either, nor am I trying to be confrontational -- but I've heard this before... and a lot less politely. Besides, when we talk about the "Afterlife," we're not just talking about the unknown, but the unknowable. Nobody who's discovered the answer has comeback to tell us about it (although many have claimed to).

I used to tell my late husband, who was also a Baha'i, that I do not want to go to the Baha'i afterlife (which is called the Abha Kingdom) and I don't care if it is supposed to be so great... Many a night we would discuss this, and now he is there and I am here all alone. Now I want to go there but I cannot because I have to do my time here.

"Do my time here" sounds very depressing. It literally makes life sound like a prison sentence -- well, we're all sentenced to life, but you've had all this time to realize that.

If the Afterlife (whatever it may be) is as wonderful as we've all been taught to think it is, then it won't matter if we get there 100 years from now or next Thursday -- we will get there, and it'll be worth it.

And if there isn't an Afterlife, that means that this world is all there is -- so we had best make it a good one.

Either way, here we are - in a world that can be as wonderful (or as miserable) as we make it. I vote for "wonderful" -- it's a beautiful day, so I'm going to put on my headphones, play some Pink Floyd, and take a walk in the park.

His point to me was that I cannot 'pass' on the afterlife as it will be whatever God has designed for us and there is nothing we can do about it. Of course I knew he was right since that is only logical. If the soul is immortal, which I believe it is, we are going to continue to exist forever, so it is just a matter of HOW we want to exist, what state we want to exist in, heaven or hell. I opt for heaven even though I am not excited about living forever in an another dimension which is largely unknown.

Well, if there is a God, then it's about what state He wants us to exist in... but that's another matter.
Personally, I think we're making a mistake thinking "heaven" and "hell" are the only two options -- but again, I can fret over the unknowable, or I can make the best of the here and now.

All humor involves a sense of wrongness? Why do you think that?
But there might be nothing to laugh at, I don't know. If there is nothing to cry about, as the Bible says, then there will probably be nothing to laugh about, since those are complementary feelings.

Think about it: From the pun to the pratfall, everything that we find "funny" involves something that should not be or should not have happened... that's what makes it funny.
In a perfect world, nothing is ever out of place; nothing is ever anywhere it doesn't belong; nothing ever happens that isn't supposed to... therefore, nothing is funny.

Robert Heinlein said it best in Stranger in a Strange Land; I'm paraphrasing from memory here, but basically, "We don't laugh at a goodness; We laugh because it hurts -- and laughing at it is the only way to make it stop hurting."

 

[Kathryn]

You understand how that might come off sounding like a hat full of empty promises... We grow through learning, we learn through experience, and we gain experience through trial and error - which can't happen if we take "error" out of the equation.




Well, it's not my style to sign up for any program (let alone an eternal one) blindfolded... so I'm going to pass on "Heaven."




As I was saying before -- what would there be to laugh at? All humor involves a sense of wrongness, and what can be "wrong" in Heaven?

You're looking at all of this from a very limited perspective.

 

[TLK Valentine]

You're looking at all of this from a very limited perspective.

I'm looking at all of this from a very human perspective... appropriate, as I am a human.

 

[Trailblazer]

Is it different, though? Simply saying it "must" be isn't enough. Believing is no substitute for finding out, and wishful thinking is no substitute for believing.
Besides, I've grown in immaterial ways the same way I have in the material - through trial and error.

How do you think you can 'find out'? There are no brochures of the spiritual world. Thus we either believe based upon the evidence that is available or we don't believe. There could be trial and error in the next world, I don't know.

Because generally speaking, it's not in human nature to simply "accept" mysteries -- it's more in our nature to figure them out.
Our nature is one of curiosity - experiencing, learning, growing.

That is correct. It's not in human nature to simply "accept" mysteries -- it's more in our nature to figure them out -- if we can figure them out.
The only way we can know more about the spiritual world is by communicating with spirits who are there through the use of mediums, but what comes to us through mediums is that the spiritual world is so different that it cannot be described. In other words, any words we have cannot do it justice.

Granted, many people can let the unknown remain unknown with a simply shrug and a "well, it's none of my business..." but in the case of life after death, it very much is our business...

I'm not singling you out either, nor am I trying to be confrontational -- but I've heard this before... and a lot less politely. Besides, when we talk about the "Afterlife," we're not just talking about the unknown, but the unknowable. Nobody who's discovered the answer has comeback to tell us about it (although many have claimed to).

Even if the afterlife is our business, if it s unknowable, how does it help that it is our business?

"Do my time here" sounds very depressing. It literally makes life sound like a prison sentence -- well, we're all sentenced to life, but you've had all this time to realize that.

It can be depressing for some people. For others life is joyful. For some it is a mixed bag.

If the Afterlife (whatever it may be) is as wonderful as we've all been taught to think it is, then it won't matter if we get there 100 years from now or next Thursday -- we will get there, and it'll be worth it.

I agree.

And if there isn't an Afterlife, that means that this world is all there is -- so we had best make it a good one.

I agree. We should try to make the best of this life, live life to the fullest.

Either way, here we are - in a world that can be as wonderful (or as miserable) as we make it. I vote for "wonderful" -- it's a beautiful day, so I'm going to put on my headphones, play some Pink Floyd, and take a walk in the park.

Some things we have control over, other things we have no control over because they are within the realm of fate. All we can do is our best to make it wonderful, if that is our goal.... It is a beautiful day here, raining, just as I like it, so I am going to look out the kitchen window at the squirrels and birds eating on my deck.

Well, if there is a God, then it's about what state He wants us to exist in... but that's another matter.
Personally, I think we're making a mistake thinking "heaven" and "hell" are the only two options -- but again, I can fret over the unknowable, or I can make the best of the here and now.

I do not believe that heaven or hell are the only two options. I believe there are gradations, degrees of heaven and hell.

Think about it: From the pun to the pratfall, everything that we find "funny" involves something that should not be or should not have happened... that's what makes it funny.
In a perfect world, nothing is ever out of place; nothing is ever anywhere it doesn't belong; nothing ever happens that isn't supposed to... therefore, nothing is funny.

Robert Heinlein said it best in Stranger in a Strange Land; I'm paraphrasing from memory here, but basically, "We don't laugh at a goodness; We laugh because it hurts -- and laughing at it is the only way to make it stop hurting."

No wonder I have been laughing so much. Humor is one way of dealing with pain. I try to laugh about some of the things that I could be angry about, like these con men who try to con me out of money on dating sites, and I even laugh about the other men who only want sex. It is funny, because they are not getting either one from me.

 

[Jimmy]

I have no idea what souls will be doing in heaven, aside from serving the Cause of God and worshiping God.
No, I don't think failure will be an option as failure is only for this world. We stumble and fall as part of our journey through this life in order to achieve spiritual growth and if we succeeded in getting to heaven there will be no more failures.

I believe there is hope for those who are in hell unless they choose to remain there...
I will tell some Baha'i jokes about heaven in a minute.

What about that situation do you want to know about?

Is hell in another realm or does it just mean bad times on earth in your view?

 

[Trailblazer]

Is hell in another realm or does it just mean bad times on earth in your view?

In my view, the spiritual world is another realm of existence, and there souls can be in state of heaven or hell.
Heaven is a state of the soul who is near to God, and we can be in heaven in this life or in the next life.
Hell is a state of the soul who is distant from God, and we can be in hell in this life or in the next life.

 

[TLK Valentine]

How do you think you can 'find out'? There are no brochures of the spiritual world. Thus we either believe based upon the evidence that is available or we don't believe. There could be trial and error in the next world, I don't know.

My point exactly - We can't find out.
Which is why I remain highly skeptical of anyone or anything that says they already have.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of the whole "physical/spiritual" dichotomy in the first place -- a little too Platonic for my liking. But that's another matter.

That is correct. It's not in human nature to simply "accept" mysteries -- it's more in our nature to figure them out -- if we can figure them out.

And in this case, we cannot. At least not yet; possibly not ever.

The only way we can know more about the spiritual world is by communicating with spirits who are there through the use of mediums, but what comes to us through mediums is that the spiritual world is so different that it cannot be described. In other words, any words we have cannot do it justice.

If we consider such "mediums" to be accurate and trustworthy.
Personally, I do not.

Even if the afterlife is our business, if it s unknowable, how does it help that it is our business?

Our business is what we do in the current life, of course. Those who choose to spend it preparing for a next one, well - that's their business, not mine.

Those who wish to compel me to prepare for it, well - that's my business, and none of theirs.

It can be depressing for some people. For others life is joyful. For some it is a mixed bag.

Well, it was Hamlet who said that nothing is good or bad but thinking makes it so. Life throws experiences at us, whether they are depressing or joyful depends a lot on how we choose to see them.

For example, tomorrow is Monday, and plenty of people (myself included), are going to have to get up early and go to work. Whether they dread it or look forward to it is based on their own attitude and choices.

No wonder I have been laughing so much. Humor is one way of dealing with pain. I try to laugh about some of the things that I could be angry about, like these con men who try to con me out of money on dating sites, and I even laugh about the other men who only want sex. It is funny, because they are not getting either one from me.

It probably explains my love for gallows humor. One of my favorite TV shows is M*A*S*H, and I remember Hawkeye once saying something like, "The reason I tell all these jokes is because it's the only way I can open my mouth without screaming."

 

[Kathryn]

I'm looking at all of this from a very human perspective... appropriate, as I am a human.

So you say.

Meanwhile, so am I - or so I say. LOL

 

[Trailblazer]

My point exactly - We can't find out.
Which is why I remain highly skeptical of anyone or anything that says they already have.

There is nothing wrong with being skeptical of unknowable things.

And in this case, we cannot. At least not yet; possibly not ever.

We cannot find out now but I believe we will find out after we die. If we don't we will never know the difference since we will be DEAD.

If we consider such "mediums" to be accurate and trustworthy.
Personally, I do not.

All mediums are not the same. Some are accurate and trustworthy, others are not. The key is to distinguish between the two.

Our business is what we do in the current life, of course. Those who choose to spend it preparing for a next one, well - that's their business, not mine.

Those who wish to compel me to prepare for it, well - that's my business, and none of theirs.

If there is a next life we are all preparing for it, either consciously or unconsciously. I prefer to live consciously, knowing the purpose of this life, so I will be prepared for the next life.

What you choose to prepare for or not prepare for is nobody's business except your own. I hate it when people tell me what I should be doing as it is none of their business.

Well, it was Hamlet who said that nothing is good or bad but thinking makes it so. Life throws experiences at us, whether they are depressing or joyful depends a lot on how we choose to see them.

That is true, but we cannot always control how we how we choose to see our experiences. We can try to reframe them and see them in a more positive light but that doesn't always work.

For example, tomorrow is Monday, and plenty of people (myself included), are going to have to get up early and go to work. Whether they dread it or look forward to it is based on their own attitude and choices.

Lucky you.... I don't have to get up and go to work till Tuesday, since I work four tens, Tuesday-Friday...
I work in my living room and I like my job and coworkers so it is not bad for me, as long as I get enough sleep.

Attitudes can be changed, but I do not believe attitudes are as easily changed as some people think they are, and sometimes they cannot be changed. People are complex and all our lives are very different so there are many factors that contribute to how we think about things.

It probably explains my love for gallows humor. One of my favorite TV shows is M*A*S*H, and I remember Hawkeye once saying something like, "The reason I tell all these jokes is because it's the only way I can open my mouth without screaming."

I never really thought about why I am always joking around, but now I know! Thanks for that.
I have to joke around in order to deal with my life such as it is. It is not really funny at all, but there is nothing I can do about it except keep plodding along and if I take it too seriously and worry all the time I would not survive one more day.

I do scream when I am alone.... I yell out "Help me Jesus, help me God!" Nobody hears me except the cats and it doesn't seem to bother them.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I never really thought about why I am always joking around, but now I know! Thanks for that.
I have to joke around in order to deal with my life such as it is. It is not really funny at all, but there is nothing I can do about it except keep plodding along and if I take it too seriously and worry all the time I would not survive one more day.

Will a day come when the race will detect the funniness of these juvenilities and laugh at them--and by laughing at them destroy them? For your race, in its poverty, has unquestionably one really effective weapon--laughter. Power, Money, Persuasion, Supplication, Persecution--these can lift at a colossal humbug,--push it a little-- crowd it a little--weaken it a little, century by century: but only Laughter can blow it to rags and atoms at a blast. Against the assault of Laughter nothing can stand.

~Mark Twain

 

[joelr]

T

My belief that there will be something has evidence to back it up, not only what religions say, so there is a better reason to believe that there is something rather than nothing.

Yes, it has evidence it was a Greek myth that was adapted by the Hebrews (who did not have it during their ~1000 year run).
So Yahweh never told people about heaven for almost 1000 years, an entire civilization, then 2 cultures that have those myths show up and now Judaism has it after a few more centuries? Yet you still find this story true?


During the period of the Second Temple (c. 515 BC – 70 AD), the Hebrew people lived under the rule of first the Persian Achaemenid Empire, then the Greek kingdoms of the Diadochi, and finally the Roman Empire.[51] Their culture was profoundly influenced by those of the peoples who ruled them.[51] Consequently, their views on existence after death were profoundly shaped by the ideas of the Persians, Greeks, and Romans.[52][53] The idea of the immortality of the soul is derived from Greek philosophy[53] and the idea of the resurrection of the dead is thought to be derived from Persian cosmology,[53] although the later claim has been recently questioned.[54] By the early first century AD, these two seemingly incompatible ideas were often conflated by Hebrew thinkers.[53] The Hebrews also inherited from the Persians, Greeks, and Romans the idea that the human soul originates in the divine realm and seeks to return there.[51] The idea that a human soul belongs in Heaven and that Earth is merely a temporary abode in which the soul is tested to prove its worthiness became increasingly popular during the Hellenistic period (323–31 BC).[44] Gradually, some Hebrews began to adopt the idea of Heaven as the eternal home of the righteous dead.[44]