What will the return of Jesus really Change?

[Reverend Rick]

I'm sure he will be so pleased with Christian families on their second or third marriage serving a glazed spiral cut ham and exchanging gifts under a tree they brought into the house.

You think he threw a fit last time he was here, you aint seen nothing yet!

 

[ChristineES]

I am sure Jesus, if he weren't coming like lightning, and would say to certain religious leaders "You're just like the religious leaders of my time!"

(Sorry, couldn't resist it).

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

Amen Rick and Christine. We Christians as a whole have departed very far from what Jesus taught us.

I have hope that many people will begin to see the signs of the times and to repent and come unto the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. We will see a great body of saints humbly and steadfastly coming unto Christ. We will take part in a great battle as the world becomes darker and darker. There is hope and that hope is in the power of Jesus Christ.

"And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the power of the Lamb of God, that it descended upon the saints of the church of the Lamb, and upon the covenant people of the Lord, who were scattered upon all the face of the earth; and they were armed with righteousness and with the power of God in great glory."

Do not give up hope my friends!

By the way that whole chapter from a vision Nephi had of our day is awesome!

 

[Shermana]

I think Jesus is going to feel like Moses did when he returned from the mountain.

I'm fairly certain the return is going to be a lot more Revelation-style.

 

[Shermana]

So in other words, our system of government is the same with the exception that we don't whip people's backs open in town square, or chop their heads off, hang them, stone them to death, burn them alive, etc., for not following a religious interpretation. Wait, we did that too not too long ago, such as in Salem, Mass.

We'll know exactly what the interpretation is supposed to be, and there will be confession and repentance, except for certain offenses. Which offense are you so afraid of committing exactly? I think I asked you that last time.

So why not just get rid of secular governments and bring back the rule of the Church in trying heretics? Let's bring back the Inquisition. This is what you are saying above, isn't it?

I'm saying that's pretty much what's going to happen, except the Nazarenes and Torah obedient Christians, not the Catholics or Lutherans/Calvinists will be in charge.

Sounds exactly like the Inquisition with the priests helping the secular authorities who executed the law discern exactly what to do to purify the souls of offenders and to keep a godly civil order. Doesn't it?

Sure does. Except it's going to actually be similar to the early Israelite days, and not the later Church of Rome days.

Which is of course precisely the model of government during the Inquisition.

And? We already have a system which penalizes people for many of the same sins. Which one are you worried about breaking?

Well then, if you believe that "punishment" actually reforms people (which it does not), then our current system of government incarcerating you is far more of a deterrent than a simple flogging. You have just stated this is true. Why would you wish to replace it for a "softer" version that is less effective?

There are entire fields of study to determine whether punishment reforms people, and many different opinions on the matter. I think incarceration is a terrible system that only further breeds criminal culture, gang-mentality, violence, and rape.

Have you ever looked at what it is inside of you that you wish to impose upon others through your image of God?

What are you trying to say? That I have an evil heart for agreeing that the days of old are coming back? What exactly are you so afraid of? What sin are you wanting to commit so badly that results in such punishment? Premarital relations aren't punished unless you falsely claim you're a virgin, (unless you're a priest's daughter which I highly doubt you'll be reborn as), so what's your issue?

 

[Reverend Rick]

I'm fairly certain the return is going to be a lot more Revelation-style.

Oh, I agree. Are we talking about his return appearing in the clouds or some time later, (7 years?) during the battle of Armagedon?

I believe the whole reason for the tribulation is to reunite with Jews 144,000 of them, 12K from each tribe.

 

[Sleeppy]

I'm fairly certain the return is going to be a lot more Revelation-style.

Oh, I agree. Are we talking about his return appearing in the clouds or some time later, (7 years?) during the battle of Armagedon?

I believe the whole reason for the tribulation is to reunite with Jews 144,000 of them, 12K from each tribe.

Are we believing because it was written, or because it can be understood?

 

[Reverend Rick]

Are we believing because it was written, or because it can be understood?

Even John the author of Revelations did not understand everything he wrote. Prophecy will be revealed at the appropriate time.

Revelations is a challenge to understand, just because it takes a large effort does not discount the material.

 

[Sleeppy]

Even John the author of Revelations did not understand everything he wrote. Prophecy will be revealed at the appropriate time.

Revelations is a challenge to understand, just because it takes a large effort does not discount the material.

What does this large effort produce? What is it worth?

 

[roger1440]

He will probably say something like, “Sorry it took so long. I have been busy cleaning the house.”

 

[Shermana]

His arrival is going to be nonstop cleaning house.

 

[nash8]

I think Jesus is going to feel like Moses did when he returned from the mountain.

You mean, break the original commandments that were supposed to be given to the people because they were too undisciplined and ignorant to follow them?

Even John the author of Revelations did not understand everything he wrote. Prophecy will be revealed at the appropriate time.

Revelations is a challenge to understand, just because it takes a large effort does not discount the material.

That's because John was trippin balls. Go eat some shrooms, read revelation, and all will become clear.

 

[Thana]

Will anything change in the World?

Erm, Well if want an unpleasant description of exactly what will happen, I suggest reading Revelations.

But if you'd rather not, Look at it this way.

A god comes down to earth.
Do you really think that won't have an effect on anything at all?

 

[Muffled]

Theologically every progress in the World has its Source in Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is what brings the Bounty to this World from an invisible World.
In Chapter of Revelation it is written at the time of return He is making everything new.
By this is meant that a New Earth would appear in a sense that People would have a completely way of life and a New human Civilization would come to existance by the Power of Holy Spirit.
Baha'u'llah Who in Baha'i View is the return of Christ appeared just about 160 years ago, and when He appeared, indeed a new Civilization of humanity also appeared.
By a new human civilization is meant what we witness in this new age in terms of all new technologies, Sciences, and social and economic systems, which are All new comparing to what people of the past had. Therefore in Baha'i View this promise is Fulfilled.

I don't believe he fulfilled this one:
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth proceedeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of God, the Almighty.

 

[Muffled]

The "believers" would reject Jesus and think he's the Antichrist if he arrived in the flesh and taught the same things he taught when he first arrived.

I believe it depends on what He is doing. However it is foretold in Rev. that the antichrist will perform miracles so that much is true. There is nothing about Jesus healing people on his return.

 

[Muffled]

Oh, I agree. Are we talking about his return appearing in the clouds or some time later, (7 years?) during the battle of Armagedon?

I believe the whole reason for the tribulation is to reunite with Jews 144,000 of them, 12K from each tribe.

I believe He appears in the clouds during the Battle of Armagedon to destroy the enemies (The whole world) of Israel that are attacking.

I don't see any basis for that belief as far as "the reason for the tribulation" goes but it appears to me that the 144,000 Jews are raptured from Mt Olivet as a first fruit of the general rapture.

 

[Windwalker]

We'll know exactly what the interpretation is supposed to be, and there will be confession and repentance, except for certain offenses. Which offense are you so afraid of committing exactly? I think I asked you that last time.

My fear is not of God, as no God would act in this manner. My fear is for the fanatics who believe they are acting on God's behalf. I fear for the world. I fear for the well-being of all humanity. I fear for those who would otherwise come to know God through Love, but are driven into the corner by those who believe they are God's sword on earth. I fear you. To put a point on it.

On the other hand, I would never enforce my views on another. I set an example by my life, and if someone is drawn what they see in me for themselves, then it is real for them. No amount of pouring hot lead down someone's throat to get them to "obey God", will make one iota of change in their heart. You advocate terrorism in the name of God. You celebrate the Spanish Inquisition's tactics as good and proper and true, with the only disagreement with them that you weren't in charge with your flavor of the Gospel message.

May God help us all if you get power in the world over others, claiming it's sanctioned by God.

I'm saying that's pretty much what's going to happen, except the Nazarenes and Torah obedient Christians, not the Catholics or Lutherans/Calvinists will be in charge.

Yes, you agree with the Spanish Inquisition, except it will be you in the red robes pronouncing the edicts upon the heretics.

Do you by chance own weapons?

Sure does. Except it's going to actually be similar to the early Israelite days, and not the later Church of Rome days.

Wonderful. Can't wait to see our loved ones getting stoned to death in town square. God knows how effective that is to loving ones neighbor.

And? We already have a system which penalizes people for many of the same sins. Which one are you worried about breaking?

I am not worried about God in the least. I am worried about you and those fanatics who think the Taliban of a good system of government, so long as it's the right doctrines, like yours of course.

There are entire fields of study to determine whether punishment reforms people, and many different opinions on the matter. I think incarceration is a terrible system that only further breeds criminal culture, gang-mentality, violence, and rape.

Whatever. Global warming isn't happening either.

What are you trying to say? That I have an evil heart for agreeing that the days of old are coming back? What exactly are you so afraid of?

I afraid of people who are so disconnected with love, that they mistake power over others as serving God. I am afraid you lack any compass of compassion, substituting legalism for Love.

What sin are you wanting to commit so badly that results in such punishment?

I have no desire to commit sin.

Premarital relations aren't punished unless you falsely claim you're a virgin, (unless you're a priest's daughter which I highly doubt you'll be reborn as), so what's your issue?

My issue is fanatics who like the Taliban and the Inquistion believe they are living for God, and will impose their terror on others they see aren't. I am afraid of you.

 

[Shermana]

Do you ask Muslims who support Sharia if they own weapons? Do you tell them you fear them? Why not? Go tell the Muslim DIR that you fear them if they support Sharia. If you don't, then I'll have to assume you're just singling me out and trying to make personal attacks based on what I'm saying.

Do you devote half your attention to doing something about places in the world that actively are already doing what I'm saying is going to happen in the next age or is your focus only on those who believe something is going to happen that's not already here? Do you even understand what I'm saying? I'm saying what the text says. I'm not even saying if I agree with it or not, and if I do, that's my constitutional right to believe so. If you don't like it, you don't have to. You might as well go start posting on the orthodox Judaism DIR how evil you think they are that they believe the Third Temple and a return to the Sanhedrin is coming. Why don't you do that?

Why don't you go ahead and start condemning everyone who believes Revelation is going to actually happen.

That's what I thought.

Maybe I should ask people who are vehemently opposed to religious people if THEY own weapons. I've seens LOTS of them talk about the need to kill religious people. In fact, it's already happened several times.

So get to it. Start posting on the Muslim and Orthodox Judaism DIRs about how much you fear them individually as persons, and how you are afraid if they own weapons. Do it!!!

 

[Windwalker]

Do you ask Muslims who support Sharia if they own weapons? Do you tell them you fear them? Why not? Go tell the Muslim DIR that you fear them if they support Sharia. If you don't, then I'll have to assume you're just singling me out and trying to make personal attacks based on what I'm saying.

I can and will say what I have above to anyone who supports terrorism. Anyone who says the only problem with the Spanish Inquisition is that the torture they inflicted was because it was done in the name of the wrong beliefs. I will speak negatively, with just cause, against any belief that imposes itself upon another through violence and threats of harm. In fact, the RF site itself is opposed to it, and at one point I reported a post that advocated it, to which it was promptly removed.

Even though you are not advocating doing this now, you celebrate the day when it will be done in the name of your particular brand of religion. What can I say to this? You asked what I was afraid of. This is your answer.

Do you devote half your attention to doing something about places in the world that actively are already doing what I'm saying is going to happen in the next age or is your focus only on those who believe something is going to happen that's not already here?

My point in discussion with you is to see if reason can prevail against a mentality that I see as cancerous in the world. I like to think people are reachable, that if they can stop and compare this sort of ideal of some Utopia in the future that looks exactly like the Spanish Inquisition, that they might just stop and actually think about what they are actually advocating.

Do you even understand what I'm saying? I'm saying what the text says.

People read the text the way they want to. I read the same text, but my take-away is not the same as yours. My understanding reflects my views just as yours do yours. Mine do not include the imposition of religious beliefs on others through violence. I do not see Christ at all the same as you do. I read in the Bible, "God is Love". The rest of that warrior crap is historical mythologies and political jargon. We see what reflects our ideals. And what you seem to celebrate, scares me. Can you say the same about my views? Do they threaten you in any imagined future I envision? Perhaps indirectly they do somehow...

I'm not even saying if I agree with it or not, and if I do, that's my constitutional right to believe so. If you don't like it, you don't have to. You might as well go start posting on the orthodox Judaism DIR how evil you think they are that they believe the Third Temple and a return to the Sanhedrin is coming. Why don't you do that?

If they said the Spanish Inquisition was a good thing, whose only wrong was that they weren't doing it for the true religion, I'd be equally as vocal. Why shouldn't everyone living in a rational world be? I would hope they would be as well.

Why don't you go ahead and start condemning everyone who believes Revelation is going to actually happen.

I'm not condemning you. I challenging you to use your mind, and more importantly, your heart.

Maybe I should ask people who are vehemently opposed to religious people if THEY own weapons. I've seens LOTS of them talk about the need to kill religious people. In fact, it's already happened several times.

Yes, they scare me too. I consider them the flip-side of this same coin. Fundamentalists.

So get to it. Start posting on the Muslim and Orthodox Judaism DIRs about how much you fear them individually as persons, and how you are afraid if they own weapons. Do it!!!

Only if they advocate imposing their views on other through violence. And if they are only imaging a future Utopia when the infidels get flogged in public to bring in God's rule of Holy Love, then I will challenge them as I am you to use their minds and their hearts.