What will you give for your life?

[Neuropteron]

This question revolves around a statement Christ made
“ whoever loses his life for my sake will find it... of what benefit is it, if a [person] gains the whole world but forfeits his life? (Mat 16:24-26).

Following consideration is an attempt to understand those words. Your thoughts on this are welcome.
Does it revolve around dedication to Christ? And/or, the promise of everlasting life, versus life now?

If so, how many who claim to be Christian disown themselves and dedicate their lives to God?
To Christians the Apostle Paul wrote: “You do not belong to yourselves, for you were bought with a price, stop becoming slaves of men”.(1Cor 7:23)
How many “Christians” give up pleasures and desires that are contrary to Christ principles and turn themselves over to God for the doing of his will, as Jesus did?
How many unreservedly follow in the footsteps of Jesus ? There may be certain trends to join a Christian church, to put a spin on his teachings and to follow that. But if we don’t make sure, how do we know we are not following traditions and teachings of men?

Why did Jesus mention the “loss of life”? Is it dangerous to be a Christian? Are members of Christendom subjected to persecution? Are Christians in danger of “losing their life for my sake” as Jesus warned would happen?
Fact is, very little, if any persecution is directed towards nominal Christians today. Why is that? Was Jesus wrong in saying that his followers would experience persecution?
“ … a slave is not greater than his master, if they have persecuted me, they will persecute you also”(John 15:20)

Here is one hypothesis. (Maybe you can propose another one).

Christendom is “Christian” in name only, and is not following the teachings of Christ.
It has watered down scriptural principles to conform to popular views.
What views?
Politics, nationalism, immorality, homosexuality, views on marriage, pagan holidays, involvement in wars, image worship, idolatry, false doctrines, interfaith, etc…. Additionally there is the (mostly) forgotten teaching of the Kingdom as the only hope for mankind and the glorification of God’s personal name Jehovah.
Are nominal Christians even aware of Christ views on these matters? Much less being at risk of ridicule, persecution or even death because of adopting them.

What will a man give in exchange for his life?
Is it time consuming and troublesome to examine the doctrines of the clergy and compare them to the Bible? Certainly!
But, the alternative could be exchanging eternal life for convenience and instant gratification.

 

[julianalexander745]

I wouldn't give my penis.

 

[Laika]

What will a man give in exchange for his life?
Is it time consuming and troublesome to examine the doctrines of the clergy and compare them to the Bible? Certainly!
But, the alternative could be exchanging eternal life for convenience and instant gratification.

It's not what you'd die for that counts. It's what you'd kill for, and how you live with yourself years later waking up from the nightmares in your bed with the screams and torment of your victims echoing round in your head. We don't have to idealise our suffering or the suffering of others in the name of "sacrifice" to recognise that there are no heroes, there are no martyrs, there are only survivors. Strip away the uniforms, the flags and the guns and you have the same men: the children who grew up to go to war. Each war ends the same way; people get tired of killing and tired of dying and decide it is better to go home to be loved with their families and nurse their wounds, whether they be in their heart, mind or body.

It is far easier to die for a cause than to live for one, because the latter means living with it's consequences and seeing its results. Life presents it's own judgement upon our faith, whatever it may be. We risk becoming old men and old women full of regret, shame and guilt because we wasted our lives believing in false gods and false prophets and were too eager to pay a price of blood in their name. The power of words can inspire us to great deeds, but just as easily manipulate us to commit terrors. In those decisions, it is easy for us to see the truth too late to turn back the clock.

I am no Christian, but I think that was part of the meaning of why Jesus died on the cross. It wasn't cowardice, it was courage to see the humanity of his enemies enough to forgive them and spare them the pain of a holy war. If Jesus had waged war on the Romans and urged his followers to kill them, he would have only accelerated the inevitable demise of each individual and of the empire. Everyone dies and the only thing gained by killing is the time they might have lived.

The test of faith comes, not in the false urgency to destroy the corrupt and the debased based on our fear that it may conquer us, but in the knowledge that a world built on lies cannot endure and is already destined to crumble whatever we do. Christ died knowing he went to the cross with a "truth" on his side, and hence his captors and executioners were already destined to lose for their empire of lies would perish.

It is very dangerous to tell the truth when those with power want you dead. But no matter how many the "Romans" kill, people will continue to whispering in to each other's ears that the tyrants are mortal and they have built their temples and palaces on the illusion that their rule and their kingdom is all powerful and everlasting. Death comes for all of us and there is no power on earth that can stop the passage of time. Everything has its time and everything passes, so that new life may be born on it's ruins. The millennium, whatever we believe it to be, comes and the truth is crowned in triumph.

 

[ChristineM]

Wouldn't give anything for it, we all have to die sometime, why pay for the privilege?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Eradication of poverty in India.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

This question revolves around a statement Christ made
“ whoever loses his life for my sake will find it... of what benefit is it, if a [person] gains the whole world but forfeits his life? (Mat 16:24-26).

Following consideration is an attempt to understand those words. Your thoughts on this are welcome.
Does it revolve around dedication to Christ? And/or, the promise of everlasting life, versus life now?

If so, how many who claim to be Christian disown themselves and dedicate their lives to God?
To Christians the Apostle Paul wrote: “You do not belong to yourselves, for you were bought with a price, stop becoming slaves of men”.(1Cor 7:23)
How many “Christians” give up pleasures and desires that are contrary to Christ principles and turn themselves over to God for the doing of his will, as Jesus did?
How many unreservedly follow in the footsteps of Jesus ? There may be certain trends to join a Christian church, to put a spin on his teachings and to follow that. But if we don’t make sure, how do we know we are not following traditions and teachings of men?

Why did Jesus mention the “loss of life”? Is it dangerous to be a Christian? Are members of Christendom subjected to persecution? Are Christians in danger of “losing their life for my sake” as Jesus warned would happen?
Fact is, very little, if any persecution is directed towards nominal Christians today. Why is that? Was Jesus wrong in saying that his followers would experience persecution?
“ … a slave is not greater than his master, if they have persecuted me, they will persecute you also”(John 15:20)

Here is one hypothesis. (Maybe you can propose another one).

Christendom is “Christian” in name only, and is not following the teachings of Christ.
It has watered down scriptural principles to conform to popular views.
What views?
Politics, nationalism, immorality, homosexuality, views on marriage, pagan holidays, involvement in wars, image worship, idolatry, false doctrines, interfaith, etc…. Additionally there is the (mostly) forgotten teaching of the Kingdom as the only hope for mankind and the glorification of God’s personal name Jehovah.
Are nominal Christians even aware of Christ views on these matters? Much less being at risk of ridicule, persecution or even death because of adopting them.

What will a man give in exchange for his life?
Is it time consuming and troublesome to examine the doctrines of the clergy and compare them to the Bible? Certainly!
But, the alternative could be exchanging eternal life for convenience and instant gratification.

You're misusing this gospel. Jesus is not talking about sacrifice but rather than one should not give up his soul for the approval of the world. Yes, it is admirable to want to follow Jesus even at the cost of one's life, but Jesus's next line in Mark (maybe not in Matthew) says, "For what can a man give in return for his soul?" (or in some case, "is there anything worth more than your soul?")

Jesus died to give you your life back. You can use it any way you like, but I suppose the point is not to get entangled in soul-draining stuff again. You can volunteer to help the poor if it really fills you with joy. You can also do so because of a need to be praised, and eventually get stuck in a situation where the people you are helping are effectively hurting your heart or making you feel exploited. One of these is following Jesus. The other is senseless sacrifice and losing your soul.

 

[Left Coast]

Here is one hypothesis. (Maybe you can propose another one).

Christendom is “Christian” in name only, and is not following the teachings of Christ.
It has watered down scriptural principles to conform to popular views.
What views?
Politics, nationalism, immorality, homosexuality, views on marriage, pagan holidays, involvement in wars, image worship, idolatry, false doctrines, interfaith, etc…. Additionally there is the (mostly) forgotten teaching of the Kingdom as the only hope for mankind and the glorification of God’s personal name Jehovah.

Fascinating hypothesis. How do we test it?

 

[danieldemol]

Fascinating hypothesis. How do we test it?

And how do we know in such a hypothesis we are not simply being replaced by a clone of us?

Have you ever seen the movie Oblivion starring Tom Cruise where the Tet clones the central actor and replaces him with a clone having the exact replica of his memories?

The Jehovah’s Witness god is a bit like the Tet. It destroys you and replaces you with a clone.

In case you are not familiar with Oblivion see my robot analogy here: www.religiousforums.com/threads/can-a-jw-please-answer-this-one-question-pretty-please.222273/page-2#post-6179993

 

[Left Coast]

And how do we know in such a hypothesis we are not simply being replaced by a clone of us?

Have you ever seen the movie Oblivion starring Tom Cruise where the Tet clones the central actor and replaces him with a clone having the exact replica of his memories?

The Jehovah’s Witness god is a bit like the Tet. It destroys you and replaces you with a clone.

In case you are not familiar with Oblivion see my robot analogy here: www.religiousforums.com/threads/can-a-jw-please-answer-this-one-question-pretty-please.222273/page-2#post-6179993

Interesting point, I've heard that objection before. The other point that stuck out to me is that "Christendom" is not a thing. We're not in the Middle Ages. Christianity is diverse umbrella that includes many competing groups and theologies. And ironically the OP claims the rest of "Christendom" are "Christians in name only," which is usually what gets JWs bent out of shape because so many other varieties of Christians say that about them.

 

[Neuropteron]

Fascinating hypothesis. How do we test it?

By reading and knowing the scriptures (Mat 4:4)

 

[Left Coast]

By reading and knowing the scriptures (Mat 4:4)

"The Scriptures" are just more claims. How do we test them to know they're actually correct?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

The best I can try to figure about Christ, is that maybe he was like an extremely intelligent and inspirational person, and when the notes got passed down and written about later, the details, like him bringing the dead back to life, were a bit fudged. Maybe.

 

[Neuropteron]

"The Scriptures" are just more claims. How do we test them to know they're actually correct?

Mal 3:10 "Bring all the tenth part' (symbolic fo doing God's requirements.
"test me out...whether I shall not open to you people the floodgates of the heavens and actually empty out upon you a blessing until there is no more want"

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

The best I can try to figure about Christ, is that maybe he was like an extremely intelligent and inspirational person, and when the notes got passed down and written about later, the details, like him bringing the dead back to life, were a bit fudged. Maybe.

I've spent this last 10 minutes trying to think of what I currently think Jesus as. A prophet? I'll be fair, I think he may have been better than that. God Himself? No, I don't believe it. Then it hit me what I think of him as: an angel.

Edit: Or for the Hindus, I'll use the term "middle-being" or some such.

 

[Left Coast]

Mal 3:10 "Bring all the tenth part' (symbolic fo doing God's requirements.
"test me out...whether I shall not open to you people the floodgates of the heavens and actually empty out upon you a blessing until there is no more want"

So wait, you're interpreting the requirement symbolically, is the "blessing" symbolic too?

 

[Alone]

This question revolves around a statement Christ made
“ whoever loses his life for my sake will find it... of what benefit is it, if a [person] gains the whole world but forfeits his life? (Mat 16:24-26).

Following consideration is an attempt to understand those words. Your thoughts on this are welcome.
Does it revolve around dedication to Christ? And/or, the promise of everlasting life, versus life now?

If so, how many who claim to be Christian disown themselves and dedicate their lives to God?
To Christians the Apostle Paul wrote: “You do not belong to yourselves, for you were bought with a price, stop becoming slaves of men”.(1Cor 7:23)
How many “Christians” give up pleasures and desires that are contrary to Christ principles and turn themselves over to God for the doing of his will, as Jesus did?
How many unreservedly follow in the footsteps of Jesus ? There may be certain trends to join a Christian church, to put a spin on his teachings and to follow that. But if we don’t make sure, how do we know we are not following traditions and teachings of men?

Why did Jesus mention the “loss of life”? Is it dangerous to be a Christian? Are members of Christendom subjected to persecution? Are Christians in danger of “losing their life for my sake” as Jesus warned would happen?
Fact is, very little, if any persecution is directed towards nominal Christians today. Why is that? Was Jesus wrong in saying that his followers would experience persecution?
“ … a slave is not greater than his master, if they have persecuted me, they will persecute you also”(John 15:20)

Here is one hypothesis. (Maybe you can propose another one).

Christendom is “Christian” in name only, and is not following the teachings of Christ.
It has watered down scriptural principles to conform to popular views.
What views?
Politics, nationalism, immorality, homosexuality, views on marriage, pagan holidays, involvement in wars, image worship, idolatry, false doctrines, interfaith, etc…. Additionally there is the (mostly) forgotten teaching of the Kingdom as the only hope for mankind and the glorification of God’s personal name Jehovah.
Are nominal Christians even aware of Christ views on these matters? Much less being at risk of ridicule, persecution or even death because of adopting them.

What will a man give in exchange for his life?
Is it time consuming and troublesome to examine the doctrines of the clergy and compare them to the Bible? Certainly!
But, the alternative could be exchanging eternal life for convenience and instant gratification.

You know I have pondered this part of the scriptures over and over and over and over again and the bottom line is, it would be a rare thing for someone to take this scripture literally as far as I can tell, however I personally think that it is literal, and it is not easy to give your life up, I had never heard anyone say oh yeah this will be fun let's just go out today and kill ourselves, there are people who have committed suicide however I think that is different most of them do it of course in my opinion because of inner turmoil or even possibly trauma from Life experiences,(I also think that suicide victims are usually very miserable so that is a different death experience) we also know from the scriptures that not everyone will hear the lambs voice? And take up his cross. Very interesting post.

 

[MonkeyFire]

To remember you must forget. For memory you need both gone. To save there must be danger. I can't help it, but this is certainly knowledge of good and evil. The sin of man was war now the world will go for all eternity with an anomally... leading up to this very post. And God speed.

 

[HiddenDjinn]

You know I have pondered this part of the scriptures over and over and over and over again and the bottom line is, it would be a rare thing for someone to take this scripture literally as far as I can tell, however I personally think that it is literal, and it is not easy to give your life up, I had never heard anyone say oh yeah this will be fun let's just go out today and kill ourselves, there are people who have committed suicide however I think that is different most of them do it of course in my opinion because of inner turmoil or even possibly trauma from Life experiences,(I also think that suicide victims are usually very miserable so that is a different death experience) we also know from the scriptures that not everyone will hear the lambs voice? And take up his cross. Very interesting post.

This passage doesn't concern suicide. It does, however, concern martyrdom from the Christian perspective.

 

[Alone]

This passage doesn't concern suicide. It does, however, concern martyrdom from the Christian perspective.

Yes I understand that, you probably will not agree with me on this and that's okay however if you are willing to die for A cause essentially that is suicide, especially if you know the cause will take your life beforehand.

 

[Alone]

Consider the Monk it was on YouTube many years back he stood in the Town square and as he professed his faith in the name of his God he let himself on fire. In the monks mind he just died a martyr in the name of his God, in the mind of the viewers outside looking in they probably thought he was just some crazy guy. So who's right? It's all a matter of perspective.