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What would a religion without professional clergy be like?

Sunstone

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
A few days ago, I was in a conversation with a friend on the topic of organized religion. The two of us got to wondering what a religion without professional clergy would be like. Given, of course, that perhaps the best way of deorganizing a religion would be to fire its professional clergy.

So, do you think a clergy-less religion could be feasible? If so why? If not, why not?

Would some hybrid religion that was largely clergy-less, but not entirely so, be feasible?

How would a clergy-less religion operate? Would Judaism, Christianity, and Islam still be communal religions sans clergy? Could Hinduism exist without clergy? What about the various Native American religions? Don't they already exist in large measure without professional clergy?

Would a clergy-less religion overall be a good thing? A bad thing? Why or why not?

Your thoughts, please.
 
Sees

Sees

Dragonslayer
In Ásatrú/Heathenry clergy is basically a community volunteer, an elder, a mother and/or father, your self, etc. It's more like how we decide who will set up a company picnic or family reunion than designated pro religionists. Some groups/kindreds the one who got it all started up and organized may preside over rituals more often, while others are always taking turns. Pre-Christian times the head of the household, community, etc. lead rituals so it's sort of similar. There were back then professional healers, seers, attendents to special sacred places...but not like clergy as we know them.
 
CynthiaCypher

CynthiaCypher

Well-Known Member
Sees said:
In Ásatrú/Heathenry clergy is basically a community volunteer, an elder, a mother and/or father, your self, etc. It's more like how we decide who will set up a company picnic or family reunion than designated pro religionists. Some groups/kindreds the one who got it all started up and organized may preside over rituals more often, while others are always taking turns. Pre-Christian times the head of the household, community, etc. lead rituals so it's sort of similar. There were back then professional healers, seers, attendents to special sacred places...but not like clergy as we know them.
Click to expand...

So everyone used their own gifts or talents to serve?
 
Sees

Sees

Dragonslayer
CynthiaCypher said:
So everyone used their own gifts or talents to serve?
Click to expand...

Yes to serve each other and gift the Gods, their ancestors, spirits of the land, etc. Some gifted individuals would travel and had a life more focused on what we would call religion - as far as Greece, Russia, etc.

Some say mainland Germanic tribes did have their version of Druids for a while but I'm not sure...even knowing how blended the Celt/Germanic lines were.
 
sun rise

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Sees said:
In Ásatrú/Heathenry clergy is basically a community volunteer, an elder, a mother and/or father, your self, etc. It's more like how we decide who will set up a company picnic or family reunion than designated pro religionists. Some groups/kindreds the one who got it all started up and organized may preside over rituals more often, while others are always taking turns. Pre-Christian times the head of the household, community, etc. lead rituals so it's sort of similar. There were back then professional healers, seers, attendents to special sacred places...but not like clergy as we know them.
Click to expand...
That's a good point. There are people of wisdom and one listens to them not because of their formal titles but because of what they know.

And as far as rituals go, they can be meaningless if one's heart is not in them. Or they can be a structure that helps one approach the truth. It's time for the kind of rituals that people do because that's how they've been trained to end and the time for meaningful rituals to take their place.
 
Pegg

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Sunstone said:
A few days ago, I was in a conversation with a friend on the topic of organized religion. The two of us got to wondering what a religion without professional clergy would be like. Given, of course, that perhaps the best way of deorganizing a religion would be to fire its professional clergy.

So, do you think a clergy-less religion could be feasible? If so why? If not, why not?

Would some hybrid religion that was largely clergy-less, but not entirely so, be feasible?

How would a clergy-less religion operate? Would Judaism, Christianity, and Islam still be communal religions sans clergy? Could Hinduism exist without clergy? What about the various Native American religions? Don't they already exist in large measure without professional clergy?

Would a clergy-less religion overall be a good thing? A bad thing? Why or why not?

Your thoughts, please.
Click to expand...

Jehovahs Witnesses are a clergyless christian relgion.

Its a good thing because everyone is accountable and noone is above another in our structure.

We have a body of elders who work together to keep our meetings and field ministry organised, we have a governing body (a group of 8 elders) who oversee the teaching and distribution of literature and other administrative tasks.

These men are appointed if they meet scriptural qualifications. So no one pays for a certificate which qualifies them to be elders... they are appointed after proving themselves as christians through their adherence to the scriptures and its laws and by showing in their conduct and way of life that they are spiritually minded and guided. It may take a man several years before they are appointed as elders, so no one can just become an elder through being 'voted in'.
 
Ingledsva

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Sunstone said:
A few days ago, I was in a conversation with a friend on the topic of organized religion. The two of us got to wondering what a religion without professional clergy would be like. Given, of course, that perhaps the best way of deorganizing a religion would be to fire its professional clergy.

So, do you think a clergy-less religion could be feasible? If so why? If not, why not?

Would some hybrid religion that was largely clergy-less, but not entirely so, be feasible?

How would a clergy-less religion operate? Would Judaism, Christianity, and Islam still be communal religions sans clergy? Could Hinduism exist without clergy? What about the various Native American religions? Don't they already exist in large measure without professional clergy?

Would a clergy-less religion overall be a good thing? A bad thing? Why or why not?

Your thoughts, please.
Click to expand...


We actually have a clergy-less Christian group here. I was invited and decided to go to see what they were about.

They met in homes, and had a potluck supper at each "service."

They gathered in a group and anyone that had something to share - did so.

Some read scripture, others talked about morals, problems in society, etc.

They also covered good things happening in their lives.

Then they sat down to a communal potluck dinner.

It was actually rather nice when compared to the monotonous, on-droning, normal clergy lectures. :)


*
 
Brinne

Brinne

Active Member
Folk Shinto and certain smaller shines are completely community run. This is generally in the rural areas of Japan, far from the big city shrines and the affiliated shrines.

So yes it's possible considering it already exists.
 
Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I think a clergyless religion would fall into a communal category of unified spirituality likedemonstrated in some tribes where are spiritual duties but no centralized figure like a preist or specialised representative that needs to act as any type of liaison. Like Jamesworths example.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Christianity cannot be, by definition, Christianity, without clergy, because it is, at it's base, an apostolic faith, built on a communal structure. The clergy are the people who are separated out for the specific ministry of teaching that faith.
 
psychoslice

psychoslice

Veteran Member
I feel the problem with religion is that it is organized, true religion comes from within each one of us. It would be much better if we could meet together and compare our own inner understanding of how we ourselves relate to all there is. It would be much better also if we all read all scriptures and come to our own completion of how best religion can serve us.

Most religion teaches us not to step out of side of its dogma, I feel this is wrong, it only imprisons one to stay in the teaching and only believe in its teachings, in this prison we can never grow beyond the teachings. Teachings are not that which they teach, they can only point to that which is, we only need to use the teachings and when we are done with them, we need to discard them, like a butterfly breaking through its crystallise shell, when it is fully emerged it fly's away, it doesn't need its shell anymore, and so it should be with organized religion.
 
savagewind

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Pegg said:
Jehovahs Witnesses are a clergyless christian relgion.

Its a good thing because everyone is accountable and noone is above another in our structure.

We have a body of elders who work together to keep our meetings and field ministry organised, we have a governing body (a group of 8 elders) who oversee the teaching and distribution of literature and other administrative tasks.

These men are appointed if they meet scriptural qualifications. So no one pays for a certificate which qualifies them to be elders... they are appointed after proving themselves as christians through their adherence to the scriptures and its laws and by showing in their conduct and way of life that they are spiritually minded and guided. It may take a man several years before they are appointed as elders, so no one can just become an elder through being 'voted in'.
Click to expand...

If clergy means the body of all people ordained for religious duties, especially in the Christian Church.

and if

professional means relating to a job that requires special education, training, or skill and being paid a living wage

it might be true JWs have nothig like that.

But if clergy means people (such as elders) who are the directors of religious information and who attend to religious services to teach such information

and if

professional means full time work and not hobbyish

then it is not true Jehovah's Witnesses have no clergy.

The governing body of JWs are full time evangelizers. They get a stipend for life's essentials but they get all their room, board, travel, health care and insurance free.

There are other brothers who are also full time evangelizers who get those things without cost too. I know for a fact the brothers and their wives who do it full time are heroes to most JWs and get plenty of gifts of appreciation.

I hear a lie when I hear Jehovahs Witnesses are a clergyless christian relgion.

If the true meaning of clergy is teacher then they are the most powerful clergy in the world after the pope because they claim their real leader is Jesus Christ but they teach what they think is best.
 
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