What's the Abortion Debate Really About?

[Me Myself]

That is your opinion
What gives you the right to force your opinion on others?

If you feel forced into my opinion by reading my posts, and this bothers you, I would advice you not to read my posts or put me on ignore.

Then again, I am forcing that unth you now, arent I?

 

[adi2d]

If you feel forced into my opinion by reading my posts, and this bothers you, I would advice you not to read my posts or put me on ignore.

Then again, I am forcing that unth you now, arent I?

No force here on the interwebz. You stated abortion was not a right. I disagree.

 

[Falvlun]

Almost everyone pro life that I personally know practice premarital safe sex. My two closest bisexual friends are pro life, my atheist/agnostic aunt is pro life, there are several women in my college that decided to go through with their maternity given pro life values even though it was highly inconvinient for them

Furthermore, most of the cases I've heard when someone wants someone to have an abortion, its the man begging the woman to get an abortion because he does not want to be a father. With mixed cases where sometimes the woman makes him pay financially after having the baby and some others where she just decides she will do it by herself and with the help of her family.

I know of almost no one in my personal life that has such drastic religious views and yet the culture here goes with the sanctity of life since conception.

Do they force women to continue a pregnancy against her will? Are there exceptions for rape? Do people consider those who choose to have abortions "sluts"? (edit: missed an important one) Do they restrict access to contraception, like birth control?

If not, then your society has found a way to be prolife without being anti-woman. If you have answered yes to those questions, then I'm afraid that the traditional concepts regarding the role of woman and sex are permeating, and underpinning, your society's pro-life stance.

 

[Me Myself]

Do they force women to continue a pregnancy against her will? Are there exceptions for rape? Do people consider those who choose to have abortions "sluts"? (edit: missed an important one) Do they restrict access to contraception, like birth control?

If not, then your society has found a way to be prolife without being anti-woman. If you have answered yes to those questions, then I'm afraid that the traditional concepts regarding the role of woman and sex are permeating, and underpinning, your society's pro-life stance.

Killing a woman before it develops is being anti woman.

The do not take away all of the choices of the unborn even though that means it is going to be hard and unexpected.

They see a mans responsability and a womans responsability as binding to both if they happened to have a baby.

Its one of the few aspects if my culture I am actually proud of. We actually value life since conception.

No woman nor man would have the choice to kill an unborn were they killed being unborn kn e first place.

 

[Me Myself]

No force here on the interwebz. You stated abortion was not a right. I disagree.

Yes you did.

You like to narrate dont you?

 

[Falvlun]

Killing a woman before it develops is being anti woman.

The do not take away all of the choices of the unborn even though that means it is going to be hard and unexpected.

They see a mans responsability and a womans responsability as binding to both if they happened to have a baby.

Its one of the few aspects if my culture I am actually proud of. We actually value life since conception.

No woman nor man would have the choice to kill an unborn were they killed being unborn kn e first place.

I would like answers to the specific questions I posed. You simply rephrased your pro-life stance. My entire argument is that the "traditional" values are often hidden and unconscious.

 

[adi2d]

Yes you did.

You like to narrate dont you?

Yes I did what?

Not sure what you're meaning here

 

[Me Myself]

Do they force women to continue a pregnancy against her will? Are there exceptions for rape?

They are forced not to kill innocents, yes. We are all forced not to kill innocents actually. They just dont make an exception in this case unless it is life threatening. Then again, that is not an exceptn eigher. In general, you may kill a person to save your life.

Do people consider those who choose to have abortions "sluts"? (edit: missed an important one) Do they restrict access to contraception, like birth control?

I assume people do. I dont use the word **** in general. The people I ve talked about regarding this issue dont associate killing an unborn with being promiscuous, but with, well, murder and disregard for human life in its most vulnerable stage.

The being pregnate on the first place could very well happen in the first time. The problem is not e sex but protection.

Do they restrict access to contraception, like birth control?

Murdering an unborn is ... Well, murder here. We regulare weapons and weapons against the unborn too.

About condoms, no problem there. I be heard of very few peoplle having problem with them, given no one needs to die on those cases.


QUOTE=Falvlun;3600401]
If not, then your society has found a way to be prolife without being anti-woman. If you have answered yes to those questions, then I'm afraid that the traditional concepts regarding the role of woman and sex are permeating, and underpinning, your society's pro-life stance.[/QUOTE]

The traditional concepts? Call it however you want, as I answered you allready, protecting the unborn is pro men and pro women.

You want to say "they dont have the freedom to murder the unborn so they are enslaved" . I am sorry, but me and most of the women I know would say protecting life has nothing to do with slavery or being anti woman.

Its not anti woman anyways. Men are unallowed to kill the unborn too. Penalties for the doctors are as strict or more so than on the women,

 

[Me Myself]

Yes I did what?

Not sure what you're meaning here

Disagree, as you said you did

Why?

 

[Shiranui117]

In most cases, (obviously, cases of rape and medical necessity are exempted from this characterization) the abortion debate is about protecting the lives of unborn human children vs. women wanting the ability to do what they want, and not having to deal with the consequences of it.

 

[Revoltingest]

Shocking!
Those of us who think the debate about abortion is actually about abortion are a minority in this poll.

This guy seems pretty typical to me.....

In most cases, (obviously, cases of rape and medical necessity are exempted from this characterization) the abortion debate is about protecting the lives of unborn human children vs. women wanting the ability to do what they want, and not having to deal with the consequences of it.

Controlling women isn't the objective. Rather, it's about human life, ie, the fetus.
I don't agree with the stance, but I understand it & find it honest.

 

[Me Myself]

Shocking!
Those of us who think the debate about abortion is actually about abortion are a minority in this poll.

This guy seems pretty typical to me.....

Controlling women isn't the objective. Rather, it's about human life, ie, the fetus.
I don't agree with the stance, but I understand it & find it honest.

Indeed. I find it rather surprising.

I understand the need to demonize those who oppose you, but I tend to foolishly expect people to realize what they are doing and rise above it.

 

[Revoltingest]

Indeed. I find it rather surprising.
I understand the need to demonize those who oppose you, but I tend to foolishly expect people to realize what they are doing and rise above it.

It reminds me of the war-on-women thread.
But I don't want to get into that argument again.

 

[Sunstone]

vs. women wanting the ability to do what they want, and not having to deal with the consequences of it.

 

[Me Myself]

Which would of course apply to men too

The man has responsabilities towards that child, just as the woman does.


We all hae to take responsibility for our desicions, women are , of course, included in such rule.

Neither man nor woman are free to kill an unborn in a pro life mentality, because human life ought to be respected, not terminated at leasure.

 

[Falvlun]

Shocking!
Those of us who think the debate about abortion is actually about abortion are a minority in this poll.

This guy seems pretty typical to me.....

Controlling women isn't the objective. Rather, it's about human life, ie, the fetus.
I don't agree with the stance, but I understand it & find it honest.

And "This guy" demonstrated a rather demeaning view of woman who choose to have abortions. That probably wasn't the best example you could have chosen.

 

[Me Myself]

And "This guy" demonstrated a rather demeaning view of woman who choose to have abortions. That probably wasn't the best example you could have chosen.

Demeaning? He says we should take responsibility for our acts and take more than our wants into consideration.

Where is the demeaning? The claim isnt even controversial. You just disagree on the application and ghe value.

He has the value of protecting human life since conception. You dont (for what I see till now at least)

 

[Falvlun]

Demeaning? He says we should take responsibility for our acts and take more than our wants into consideration.

Where is the demeaning? The claim isnt even controversial. You just disagree on the application and ghe value.

He has the value of protecting human life since conception. You dont (for what I see till now at least)

In most cases, (obviously, cases of rape and medical necessity are exempted from this characterization) the abortion debate is about protecting the lives of unborn human children vs. women wanting the ability to do what they want, and not having to deal with the consequences of it.

Here's the quote. I bolded the relevant portion.

He stated the reason woman want abortions (barring rape or medical necessity) was so they could do what they want without consequences.

1. This implies that it is wrong for women to want the ability to do what they want.
2. This implies that women don't consider the consequences.
3. This implies that having an abortion isn't a consequence.
4. It implies that the woman should be punished for choosing to have sex.
5. It allows no possibility that the woman made an informed and difficult decision.
6. It implies that selfishness is the only reason woman would choose to abort, or that carelessness is the only reason why a woman would be in a position where they would desire to abort.

I'm sure there's others there. Can you see how such a stance is demeaning?

And no. I do not think there is anything about a zygote or an early term fetus worth protecting over the rights of the mother. I think the case for the fetus grows as it grows.

 

[Me Myself]

Here's the quote. I bolded the relevant portion.

He stated the reason woman want abortions (barring rape or medical necessity) was so they could do what they want without consequences.

1. This implies that it is wrong for women to want the ability to do what they want.
2. This implies that women don't consider the consequences.
3. This implies that having an abortion isn't a consequence.
4. It implies that the woman should be punished for choosing to have sex.
5. It allows no possibility that the woman made an informed and difficult decision.
6. It implies that selfishness is the only reason woman would choose to abort, or that carelessness is the only reason why a woman would be in a position where they would desire to abort.

I'm sure there's others there. Can you see how such a stance is demeaning?

And no. I do not think there is anything about a zygote or an early term fetus worth protecting over the rights of the mother. I think the case for the fetus grows as it grows.

I can see how you make a lot of assumptions about it that are deamining.

People shouldnt just "do whatever they want" without taking consideration on the consequences. Why would you expect women to be an exception?

Having an abortion is a choice otherwise the term is miscarriage. In any case, if someone aborted her baby against her will I would be extremely surprised if he held the woman accountable for it.

A lot of those assumptions are misconstructions too.

His was also a misconscruction, because both women and men are pro life and pro choice though.

Personally, the only woman I know who has told me she doesnt feel abortion is wrong is my mother. Then on, others seem to have indeed a high respect for life since its conception. Those that I have met at least.

The thing is that I see both sides misconstructing the other and to me its a bit amazing.

 

[Me Myself]

1. This implies that it is wrong for women to want the ability to do what they want.

It is wrong for a human to want to do anything that s/he wants without care or consideration for others wellbeing. This of course does not exclude women.

2. This implies that women don't consider the consequences.

It implies that women dont want to face the consecuences, in this case, that they brought an inocent life to this world.

3. This implies that having an abortion isn't a consequence.

I am not sure what you mean here. Having an abortion is a choice, at least in the contrxt we are speaking.

4. It implies that the woman should be punished for choosing to have sex.

It implies they should not take away the rights of the unborn. If we are talking about consensual sex as he implied, both she and the man knew this could happen and took the risk. Killing your way out of it its not an option, it hasothing to do with guilt and everytng to do with doing your best with what you ve got.

As far as I am concerned, they should charge the father to help mantain the baby even since in belly.

5. It allows no possibility that the woman made an informed and difficult decision.
6. It implies that selfishness is the only reason woman would choose to abort, or that carelessness is the only reason why a woman would be in a position where they would desire to abort.

I concede both of those were clumsy generalizations on his part.