What's the Abortion Debate Really About?

[Me Myself]

Men have the right to deny anyone else the use of their body. They also have the right to choose not to subject themselves to bodily risk even if someone else will certainly die because of their decision.

Women have that right too. What they dont have right to is to outright kill someone. Men dont thave that right either.

 

[oldbadger]

I think it's a crazy mix and you cannot blanket label people and their thought processes as a great deal of factors influence viewpoint on abortion.

:yes:

 

[adi2d]

Women have that right too. What they dont have right to is to outright kill someone. Men dont thave that right either.

That is the point. There is no "someone" until the fetus' first breath

 

[oldbadger]

That is the point. There is no "someone" until the fetus' first breath

Where did you get this?
At about 24+ weeks they suck their thumbs, do things that babies do, and they don't need to breath.

Are you arguing that a pregnant woman should be allowed to demand an abortion at, say, 30 weeks?

 

[adi2d]

Where did you get this?
At about 24+ weeks they suck their thumbs, do things that babies do, and they don't need to breath.

Are you arguing that a pregnant woman should be allowed to demand an abortion at, say, 30 weeks?

I'm not arguing anything. I'm just stating my opinion. A fetus becomes a baby when it recieves the breath of life
At 30 weeks a fetus can be removed and cared for until first breath. If a woman decides to take that course she should lose all parental rights

 

[Willamena]

Where did you get this?
At about 24+ weeks they suck their thumbs, do things that babies do, and they don't need to breath.

It's an old way of identifying when life begins. It's the reason we have birthdays.

 

[Me Myself]

That is the point. There is no "someone" until the fetus' first breath

Thats the point, there is someone since conception.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Generally because males never have unborn, living, human children inside their bodies. Yes, it's a woman's body. But it's also a child inside a woman's body. If you kill a child outside the womb, you go to jail for the crime of infanticide. Kill a child inside the womb, and it's legal, common, accepted medical practice. It's not about denying the woman's ability to decide what she wants to do with her own body. It's about protecting the human child within her womb.

Which equates to elevating the rights of the fetus' existence over the health and autonomy of the woman, from my understanding of where your position is coming from.

I mean, we're saying the same thing, but the difference is where the emphasis of "life" is. The woman, or the fetus?

Precisely why I support Roe vs. Wade and it's position on fetal viability. It's the best legal compromise IMO.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

It's an old way of identifying when life begins. It's the reason we have birthdays.

I think it's funny when some smarty pants kids at 20 years old will walk into a bar and ask for a drink. When the bartender asks for identification, the person shows how old he or she is, the bartender refuses, and the kid says, "Yeah, my birthday says I'm 20, but I've been somebody since I was conceived....21 years ago....so I'd like a beer to celebrate." [when the drinking age minimum is 21]

The government does not recognize humans starting at conception. It's too difficult to measure and document and maintain, so overall a birth certificate identifies and recognizes inalienable birth rights....including the right to life. Fetal viability around the 24-26 week of gestation is that grayer area of when it is ethically feasible to terminate a pregnancy through surgical abortion procedures.

One thing that continues to be glossed over is the fact that abortion rates around the world are not diminished from restricting access. They are diminished with full and legal access to contraception and family planning services as well as comprehensive sex education PLUS access to safe and legal abortion.

When women are given the freedom to decide when they can have children or not, abortion rates GO DOWN. They will always be there, but restricting access to abortion only increases mortality rates for women and girls who attempt to find illegal means of terminating pregnancies anyway.

It's the blank-unholy-irony of the abortion debate. Empowering women's autonomy to do exactly what she wants sexually with her body at all times of her life offers the lowest abortion rates across cultures. Not shame tactics. Not restriction. Not austerity. Women and girls seek to terminate unwanted pregnancies in all religions, cultures, ages, socio-economic classes. So changing marital statuses or universal health coverage or anything outside of full and safe legal access to family planning services does little to nothing to lower abortion rates.

THIS is why the abortion debate is truly, ultimately, about controlling women's reproductive choices.

 

[Falvlun]

Thats the point, there is someone since conception.

A clump of cells is not a "someone". Come on. At least be reasonable. I could agree that, say at 28 weeks, we might have a someone. But at conception? No way.

 

[Me Myself]

A clump of cells is not a "someone". Come on. At least be reasonable. I could agree that, say at 28 weeks, we might have a someone. But at conception? No way.

We are all a clump of cells

If its about intelligence, a baby is less inteligent than an adult dog anyways. If its about sentience, there are many ways to kill a human on any age without said human feeling a thing.

 

[Falvlun]

We are all a clump of cells

If its about intelligence, a baby is less inteligent than an adult dog anyways. If its about sentience, there are many ways to kill a human on any age without said human feeling a thing.

It's not about any of those. It's about common sense, and being honest.

 

[Apex]

Is the abortion debate really all about the morality or immorality of killing fetuses

For most pro-lifers, yes.

or is it more about controlling women's reproductive choices?

Only in the minds of the anti-conservative pro-choice.

And if it is really about the morality or immorality of killing fetuses, then why do so many people who oppose abortion also oppose contraception? Especially, contraceptives that have nothing to do with abortion?

Ignorance.

 

[Me Myself]

It's not about any of those. It's about common sense, and being honest.

There are five common senses to all humans, and they still register different things among different humans, and still not all humans have all of them.

Being honest happens from all kinds of " "common" "senses" " and it actually happens to be a specialty of mine.

 

[oldbadger]

I'm not arguing anything. I'm just stating my opinion. A fetus becomes a baby when it recieves the breath of life

Ok.... this your opinion.
It's just that mostly every Judge, doctor, nurse, legislator, ......... seems to have a different opinion to you. Is it rude to ask you what you do for a living?

At 30 weeks a fetus can be removed and cared for until first breath. If a woman decides to take that course she should lose all parental rights

I'm sorry...... this is rubbish. My mates' wife had to choose to have an early induction to save her own life. She was suffering from anaemia, blood clotting and goodness knows what else, and her doctors asked her to allow them to induce and incubate. Her decision.

By your amazing judgement she should have had the child taken away.

 

[oldbadger]

It's an old way of identifying when life begins. It's the reason we have birthdays.

It's an old way of remembering when we were born, hence birthdays.

Some folks believe that life begins at conception. But doctors tend to agree with 25-26 week legislation, apart from Canada. In Canada your hospitals use a 20 week point to work from.

Do you know better than doctors?

 

[Falvlun]

There are five common senses to all humans, and they still register different things among different humans, and still not all humans have all of them.

Being honest happens from all kinds of " "common" "senses" " and it actually happens to be a specialty of mine.

If your position is so reasonable, then why are you going out of your way to intentional misinterpret what I am saying?

Here's a zygote:

Yup, sure looks like "someone" to me. :sarcastic

 

[Me Myself]

If your position is so reasonable, then why are you going out of your way to intentional misinterpret what I am saying?

Do you honestly pretend to know my intentions?

Here's a zygote:

Yup, sure looks like "someone" to me. :sarcastic

There are people that can draw things as realistic as to look real.

I wont assume you are saying that things are what they look like, so I ll wait for you yourself to elaborate on your point so you wont then assume I "intentionally" misrepresent you

 

[adi2d]

Ok.... this your opinion.
It's just that mostly every Judge, doctor, nurse, legislator, ......... seems to have a different opinion to you. Is it rude to ask you what you do for a living?


I'm sorry...... this is rubbish. My mates' wife had to choose to have an early induction to save her own life. She was suffering from anaemia, blood clotting and goodness knows what else, and her doctors asked her to allow them to induce and incubate. Her decision.

By your amazing judgement she should have had the child taken away.

I was responding to a woman having an abortion at 30 weeks. She should not be forced(imo) to carry the baby to term. that is when the woman should lose parental rights. Your friends wife wanted the baby. She wasn't trying to abort. Sorry if I wasn't clearer

As far as everone you listed having a different opinion. I would like to see your statistics on that.

 

[Sunstone]

If your position is so reasonable, then why are you going out of your way to intentional misinterpret what I am saying?

Here's a zygote:

Yup, sure looks like "someone" to me. :sarcastic

Awww....What a cute little nose! By jeebers, it must be a person with rights!