As Quintessential said, it is actually a different motive for different people. Since I don't know the motives of others, then I can't say either one is their reason.
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What's the Abortion Debate Really About?
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
I could have voted for either 3 or 4. I went for 4 'none of the above'.
Why are you banging on so hard about the Catholics? Are you surrounded by them in huge %s or something? Let's forget any particular religions for one post, and just look at some really important opinions from really crucial people in this matter.
Why don't you type 'doctors against...' into your computer, and it will automatically finish for you, offering pages and pages ... loads of 'em..... about doctors who are against abortions. They mostly feel that there is a stage in the development of a foetus where their Hippocratic oath kicks in and guides their decision.
Why don't you investigate 'nurses against....' as well? My first sister in law and scores of her colleagues would not assist or work in an abortion operation, and some of her colleagues who did... later refused.
The pro-abortionists (who presumably want later abortions to be permitted) declare that post abortion syndrome does not exist, but breakdowns over abortions can occur a decade or more afterwards. Also, doctors and nurses can suffer trauma over continued and unceasing abortion operations.
You doubt me? Why don't you do the foundation work, go thru medical school (it's never too late
), and then qualify as a surgeon? It's only several years' ..... and then we'll bung you thru the hippocratic oath..... and then let's get you extracting foetuses (foeti?) for a few months. Hell....you can have the odd holiday, and think of the pay...!
And then let's ask you what stage of foetus development should become protected. Do you think that you might, just might, have changed your view? I'll bet you will have changed your view-point.
And so....... (being a part-time carpet cleaner :biglaugh: ) I'm going to plump for 25-26 weeks, or any severe medical condition which might extend that, subject to the doctor's decisions.
What d'ya think?
I could have voted for either 3 or 4. I went for 4 'none of the above'.
Why are you banging on so hard about the Catholics? Are you surrounded by them in huge %s or something? Let's forget any particular religions for one post, and just look at some really important opinions from really crucial people in this matter.
Why don't you type 'doctors against...' into your computer, and it will automatically finish for you, offering pages and pages ... loads of 'em..... about doctors who are against abortions. They mostly feel that there is a stage in the development of a foetus where their Hippocratic oath kicks in and guides their decision.
Why don't you investigate 'nurses against....' as well? My first sister in law and scores of her colleagues would not assist or work in an abortion operation, and some of her colleagues who did... later refused.
The pro-abortionists (who presumably want later abortions to be permitted) declare that post abortion syndrome does not exist, but breakdowns over abortions can occur a decade or more afterwards. Also, doctors and nurses can suffer trauma over continued and unceasing abortion operations.
You doubt me? Why don't you do the foundation work, go thru medical school (it's never too late
Hell....you can have the odd holiday, and think of the pay...!
And then let's ask you what stage of foetus development should become protected. Do you think that you might, just might, have changed your view? I'll bet you will have changed your view-point.
And so....... (being a part-time carpet cleaner :biglaugh: ) I'm going to plump for 25-26 weeks, or any severe medical condition which might extend that, subject to the doctor's decisions.
What d'ya think?
Pictures and video of abortion procedures is already disgusting enough what with the dismembered body parts and all, so I couldn't imagine actually having to perform one. *vomits*
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Absolutely!
I wonder how many doctors and nurses end up dreaming about this..... every night..... in unending nightmares.....
The final 'say' on whether they wish to undertake such operations lies with them ............... and final legislation lies with the legislators.
I feel the same way about surgery in general. However, I don't interpret my squeamishness as some sort of moral imperative.
I'm sure that trauma happens very often among those doctors and nurses. It's literally a gory bloodbath. Anyone considering abortion should watch videos of the procedure before doing it. Maybe more of them would rethink it. I could never have any part in that. I knew a girl in high school who had an abortion and she was very traumatized and distressed over it. She told me that she regretted it every day of her life. She's since had a baby boy and appears quite happy. So I do know that it is a very negative experience.
Surgeries generally don't involve the killing of healthy humans. They're usually to save a life and not take a life.
Oh, and I'm not squeamish. I've had an interest in anatomy and pathology since I was young. I can sit through surgery, autopsy and other gory footage just fine. What is disgusting about it is the killing of a healthy baby/fetus in such a barbaric way.
I am very unlikely to forget your accusations there.
On the flip side, I've known plenty of women who have had elective abortions, and they vary in their feelings toward it. Some feel regret. Some are relieved.
I've seen videos, too. A "gory bloodbath" likely would refer to a later-term elective surgical abortion procedure, where the fetus is larger in size and has gestated longer in its development. Otherwise, a chemically-induced miscarriage does not have the same procedure nor the imagery that a later-term surgical abortion offers.
The vast majority of elective abortions occur well before 9 weeks gestation.
... unless a representative of the Church blesses your relationship.
So am I. There's a big difference between "never" and "not right now". The Church's position is that while the death penalty is often inappropriate, there are times when it isn't. This doesn't make the Church anti-death penalty than it makes me "anti-torque wrench" for saying you shouldn't use your torque wrench as a breaker bar.
Actually, Catholic "just war" doctrine as laid out in the Catechism doesn't require that the war be necessarily a matter of self defense. And if war can indeed be just, them there would be times when opposing war would be unjust.
Wherenextcolumbus
Well-Known Member
I think it is really about controlling women's reproductive rights. When I was anti abortion I thought it was about respect for life because that is what I was taught it was about, but in reality it is controlling a woman's right to her body, and quality of life. It is saying a zygote, embryo and fetus is more important than an independent person and their future. When it comes down to it you have to make a choice about what is more important.
"Pro-lifers" should all adopt unwanted children if they really give a damn.
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Yeah, I know some women feel "relieved" after it. I don't understand them.
Also, you're wrong:
Abortion Surveillance—Findings and Reports
Abortion Surveillance 2010In 2010, 765,651 legal induced abortions were reported to CDC from 49 reporting areas. The abortion rate for 2010 was 14.6 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15–44 years and the abortion ratio was 228 abortions per 1,000 live births.
Compared with 2009, the total number and rate of reported abortions for 2010 decreased 3%. The abortion ratio was stable, changing only 0.4%. Additionally, from 2001 to 2010 the number, rate, and ratio of reported abortions decreased 9%, 10%, and 8%, respectively. Given the 3% decrease from 2009 to 2010 in the total number and rate of reported abortions, in combination with the 5% decrease that had occurred in the previous year, the overall decrease during the most recent 5-year period (2006–2010) was greater than the decrease during the previous 5-year period (2001–2005).
Women in their twenties accounted for the majority of abortions in 2010 and throughout the period of analysis. The majority of abortions in 2010 took place early in gestation: 91.9% of abortions were performed at ≤13 weeks’ gestation, and of the abortions performed at ≤13 weeks’ gestation, 71.7% were performed at ≤ 8 weeks’ gestation. In 2010, 17.7% of all abortions were medical abortions. Source: MMWR 2013;62(8).
CDC - CDCs Abortion Surveillance System FAQs - Reproductive Health
Method Type
Among the 38 areas that reported by method type for 2009 and included medical abortion on their reporting form for medical providers, 74.2% of abortions were performed by curettage at ≤13 weeks' gestation; 16.5% were performed by early medical (nonsurgical) abortion, 8.1% were performed by curettage at >13 weeks' gestation, and all other methods were uncommon (Table 11).
CDC - CDCs Abortion Surveillance System FAQs - Reproductive Health
I'm not going to derail the thread about going on about subjects that have nothing to do with abortion. If you want to criticize the Church on those issues, do it elsewhere.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Pro-life is about that fact that every baby is a miracle of nature, and an infinitely priceless gift from god.
Oh, and every **** who gets knocked up was asking for it, one way or another, and they should be saddled with unwanted kids for the rest of their lives in order to punish them for spreading their legs and being such loose whores.
But, mostly because each and every baby is a unique expression of god's endless love.
Oh, and every **** who gets knocked up was asking for it, one way or another, and they should be saddled with unwanted kids for the rest of their lives in order to punish them for spreading their legs and being such loose whores.
But, mostly because each and every baby is a unique expression of god's endless love.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
you got this wrong.
surely you meant that you would not forget my questions?
It's relevant to the thread in that the Catholic Church's so-called "pro-life" stance is very inconsistent in general (and not particularly "pro-life", either) and this undermines your claim that its stance on abortion is due to it applying its "pro-life" principles consistently.
So what's one of the largest anti-abortion group's stance really based on? Control of sexuality seems like a likely possibility.
Listen to them. They have a lot to say in spite of how they don't shape up to your preconceived notions a "killing a baby".
That doesn't contradict what I have stated. Dilation and curettage does not automatically translate to "gory bloodbath". And there are various means of terminating a pregnancy depending on the gestational age of the fetus as a way of protecting the life and health of the woman.
The facts are that the vast majority of elective abortions occur before 9 weeks gestation. The phrase "gory bloodbath" is an appeal to emotion. Like Horrorble, I was once politically pro-life for close to 20 years. I once saw a fetus as a baby, which spawns all the revulsion against women and doctors who are looking to terminate a pregnancy as murderers.
The most important aspect is that I left out the importance of the health and autonomy of the woman and what is happening to her own body.
Some who adhere to the consistent life ethic believe that war could be allowable in some cases, and others are complete pacifists. There is a debate about that. But they tend to take the view that war is an evil.
Consistent life ethic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Abortion - Pro Life - Cardinal Bernardin Address: Consistent Ethic of Life Conference
http://www.consistent-life.org/cl-catholic.pdf
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
at what point in foetus development would you agree with foetus protection?
I can understand their reasoning but that doesn't mean I won't think that it's erroneous or even warped.
You seemed to have been implying that early term abortions are generally medically induced, when that's not the case.
What are you talking about? They suction out the fetus and it's torn apart in the process, then they scrape what's left over out of the uterus. Fetuses are very fragile.
Let's not pretend that abortions are generally performed for health reasons. They are not: http://womensissues.about.com/od/reproductiverights/a/AbortionReasons_2.htm
Well, I'm sorry that you changed your mind about that. What caused you to do that is a mystery to me.
Nevermind everything else, right?
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