What's the difference between Hinduism and the Vedic religion?

[Vedic]

What's the difference between Hinduism and the Vedic religion?



The historical Vedic religion has many differences from modern Hinduism followed by the majority of the Hindus today.

1) Vishnu was a minor deity in the Rig Veda but majority of the Hindus blindly worship him as the supreme God.

2) Rudra who was an another minor deity in the Rig Veda transformed into Shiva of modern Hinduism.
3) The Vedic religion strictly followed hard polytheism worshipping all the Vishvadevas as a collective whole while modern Hindus rely heavily on the Upanishads and have an idealistic outlook towards their world.
4) There was no idolatry in the Vedic religion while modern Hinduism due to existence of the Agamas is too imbibed in idol worship ignoring the existence of the Vedic gods.
5)Mitra, Varuna, Agni, Soma, Indra, Yama, Aruna, Usha, Rudra, Ashwin, Pushan, Savitr, Aditi and other Vedic gods are replaced by Hanuman, Ganesha, Kali, Rama, Krishna, Subramanya and other Hindu gods.

6) There was no Sanyas for women in the Vedic period but many Hindus today openly give Sanyas for women which was forbidden by the Vedic rishis.

7) Vedic rituals were considered very seriously and offering to the gods were made daily. These rituals were very intellectual rather than the superstition that we see in modern Hinduism.

8) Modern Hinduism gives too much emphasis on the Upanishads ignoring the fact that without the Vedas there can be no Upanishads.

9) The Vedic rishis considered the world to be real but Shankara who was a crypto-Buddhist corrupted the Vedas and introduced the doctrine of Mayavada or Illusionism which was a Buddhist doctrine into modern Hinduism.

10) Vedas are most sacred books for vedicc people and Geeta, Ramayan and mahabharat are most sacred books of hinduism according to most modern day hindus.

http://vedismblog.blogspot.in/

 

[Vedic]

also, Vedas culture has more similarities with Persian Avesta and Zoroastrianism than Indian born Saivism / Vaishnavism / Jainism / Bhuddism / Sikhism.

 

[Aupmanyav]

For your information, Vedic - this is not the manuscript of any Veda. This is a manuscript of Gta Govinda as is given in the image address:

vedismblog.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/320px-gita_govinda_28song_of_the_cowherd29_manuscript_lacma_m-71-1-33.jpg?w=768

 

[Aupmanyav]

also, Vedas culture has more similarities with Persian Avesta and Zoroastrianism than Indian born Saivism / Vaishnavism / Jainism / Bhuddism / Sikhism.

Do you think it is something new? Everyone knows that. After all, Zoroaster's people were Aryans. I have reasons to believe that Zoroaster's people had stayed in Punjab for some time but returned to Bactria. The first Fargard of Vendidad mentions this:

“I, Ahura Mazda, created as the created as the fifteenth best country, Hapta Hendu [from the eastern to the western Hendu]. In opposition, Angra Mainyu created untimely evils, and pernicious heat [or fever].”

 

[Vedic]

Do you think it is something new? Everyone knows that. After all, Zoroaster's people were Aryans. I have reasons to believe that Zoroaster's people had stayed in Punjab for some time but returned to Bactria. The first Fargard of Vendidad* mentions this:

“I, Ahura Mazda, created as the created as the fifteenth best country, Hapta Hendu** [from the eastern to the western Hendu]. In opposition, Angra Mainyu created untimely evils, and pernicious heat [or fever].”

everybody knows that they are aryans. what are your views on 2nd part of same sentence ?

 

[Aupmanyav]

1) Vishnu was a minor deity in the Rig Veda but majority of the Hindus blindly worship him as the supreme God.
2) Rudra who was an another minor deity in the Rig Veda transformed into Shiva of modern Hinduism.
3) The Vedic religion strictly followed hard polytheism worshipping all the Vishvadevas as a collective whole while modern Hindus rely heavily on the Upanishads and have an idealistic outlook towards their world.
4) There was no idolatry in the Vedic religion while modern Hinduism due to existence of the Agamas is too imbibed in idol worship ignoring the existence of the Vedic gods.
5)Mitra, Varuna, Agni, Soma, Indra, Yama, Aruna, Usha, Rudra, Ashwin, Pushan, Savitr, Aditi and other Vedic gods are replaced by Hanuman, Ganesha, Kali, Rama, Krishna, Subramanya and other Hindu gods.
6) There was no Sanyas for women in the Vedic period but many Hindus today openly give Sanyas for women which was forbidden by the Vedic rishis.
7) Vedic rituals were considered very seriously and offering to the gods were made daily. These rituals were very intellectual rather than the superstition that we see in modern Hinduism.
8) Modern Hinduism gives too much emphasis on the Upanishads ignoring the fact that without the Vedas there can be no Upanishads.
9) The Vedic rishis considered the world to be real but Shankara who was a crypto-Buddhist corrupted the Vedas and introduced the doctrine of Mayavada or Illusionism which was a Buddhist doctrine into modern Hinduism.
10) Vedas are most sacred books for vedicc people and Geeta, Ramayan and mahabharat are most sacred books of hinduism according to most modern day hindus.

1) Agreed but people have the right to worship whomever they want in whatever way they want to.
2) Yes, Rudra too was a minor Vedic God which merged into Shiva of Hinduism.
3) Vishvedevas were worshiped separately from other Gods like Agni, Soma, Ashwinis, Varuna, Mitra, the Maruts, Usha, etc.
4) I will skip this point as I strongly believe that there is a mention of Indra’s idols in the Vedas (but I do not have the reference at the moment).
5) The Vedic Gods have been added to the Hindu pantheon and we worship both, the Vedc Gods as well as the indigenous Hindu Gods. They have not been replaced/forgotten.
6) Gargi Vachaknavi did not choose to marry but continued her philosophical pursuits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gargi_Vachaknavi
7) Worship of any God also is superstition and this superstition persists in many religions.
Some Hindu philosophies are atheistic (Samkhya, Vaisesika). I too am an atheist and I am a strict ‘advaitist’.
8) It is wrong to consider Upanishads as different to Vedas. Upanshads are a part of Vedas (Shruti) and many Hindus consider them as God’s own words (Of course, since I do not believe in existence of God, I do not believe this).
9) Shankara also believed the world to be real since he believed that all we see is constituted by Brahman. He termed this as ‘Vyavaharika Satya’ (pragmatic reality).
10 ) No book is sacred. It all depends on what the book says and some are very foolish. Some books are important for the reason that they mention the history, culture and beliefs of a people at a particular time. Vedas are important for that reason. Of course, they are the oldest records of Aryan people and go back to more than 6,000 years. Geeta is a wonderful wise book. Ramayana and Mahabharata also have their good points.

So, there is nothing new in what you write and we have already discussed these things in the various topics in Hinduism forum. The only thing is that we do not cut the heads of people whose views differ from our views, as some of the other religions tend to do. So, who won? Sunnis or Shias?

 

[Aupmanyav]

everybody knows that they are aryans. what are your views on 2nd part of same sentence ?

You said that you have put me on ignore, but I notice that you are still reading my posts. OK, I do not mind it. If you are referring to "Angra Mainyu created untimely evils, and pernicious heat [or fever].”, then, one God and Angre Manyu were creations of Zoroaster, we had many. He established a new religion which later influenced Judaism, Christianity and Islam. That was neither a part of their old religion nor any such mention is found in Hindu Vedas. That is "irtidād" for us and Zoroaster indulged in "riddah".

 

[Aupmanyav]

Here is the first information on Indra's idols (but not the actual reference in RigVeda, though I will find that too):

"One passage in the Rig Veda mentions the price of the image of Lord Indra's idol was offered on sale in exchange of ten cows!"
http://www.indianetzone.com/18/ancient_coins_india.htm

 

[George-ananda]

Is anything 'Hinduism' anymore? With all these branch/group/school/sect getting excluded from the term 'Hinduism' there probably are no real Hindus left. I use Hinduism as an umbrella term for all these things and would like to see us as brothers with some different views and practices. Hindus are supposed to be an open-minded group that allows for differing thought.

 

[Stormcry]

also, Vedas culture has more similarities with Persian Avesta and Zoroastrianism than Indian born Saivism / Vaishnavism / Jainism / Bhuddism / Sikhism.

Like? Do they chant Vedic Mantras? Are Zorostrianism gods mentioned in Veda?

ZoroSeekers practice head covering and Vedic People (Vaishnawas) practice Head shaving. I think Ahura (asura) Mazda was either a Asura or Shukracharya ( guru of Asuras). Zorostrianism is essentially against Deavas (Devas- Vedic Gods of India) and Shukracharya was indeed against Deavas.

Yes, they worship through yagya but that doesn't make them Vedic people. As mentioned in Hindu scriptures, Ah(s)uras also used to perform Yagyas by invoking vedic gods for their own evil greed.

And also, yagya of Zorostrianism is not Vedic at all but what Vaishnawas perform is purely Vedic.

Zorostrianism is more vedic than Vaishnawism is just laughable.

 

[Aupmanyav]

"The original conception of Varuna seems to have been the encompassing sky. It has, however, become obscured, because it dates from an earlier age. For it goes back to the Indo-Iranian period at least, since the Ahura Mazda (the wise spirit) of the Avesta agrees with the Asura Varuna in character, though not in name. It may even be older still; for the name Varuna is perhaps identical with the Greek 'ouranos' sky. In any case, the word appears to be derived from the root vr cover or encompass. .. Varuna is often called a king, but especially a universal monarch (samráj) The attribute of sovereignty (ksatrá) and the term ásura are predominantly applicable to him. His divine dominion is often alluded to by the word mayá occult power; the epithet 'mayín' crafty is accordingly used chiefly of him."
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/vedaread.htm

"In the earliest layer of Vedic texts Indra, Agni and other gods are also called Asura, in the sense of them being "lords" of their domain, knowledge and abilities. .. asura, occurs "88 times in the Rigveda, 71 times in the singular number, four times in the dual, 10 times in the plural, and three times as the first member of a compound. In this, the feminine form, asuryaa, is included twice. The word, asurya, has been used 19 times as an abstract noun, while the abstract form asuratva occurs 24 times, 22 times in each of the 22 times of one hymn and twice in the other two hymns".

Asura is used as an adjective meaning "powerful" or "mighty". In the Rigveda, two generous kings, as well as some priests, have been described as asuras. One hymn requests a son who is an asura. In nine hymns, Indra is described as asura. Five times, he is said to possess asurya, and once he is said to possess asuratva. Agni has total of 12 asura descriptions, Varuna has 10, Mitra has 8, and Rudra has 6. .. The Book 1 of Rig Veda describes Savitr (Vedic solar deity) as an Asura who is a "kind leader".

हिरण्यहस्तो असुरः सुनीथः सुमृळीकः स्ववाँ यात्वर्वाङ् ।
अपसेधन्रक्षसो यातुधानानस्थाद्देवः प्रतिदोषं गृणानः ॥१०॥ Rigveda 1.35.10

"Hiranyahasto asurah sunīthah sumrilīkah swavām yātvarvānga l
apasedhanrakshaso yātudhānānasthāddevah pratidosham grinānah ll

May he, gold-handed Asura, kind leader, come hither to us with his help and favour.
Driving off Raksasas and Yatudhanas, [he] the god is present, praised in hymns at evening. – Translated by Ralph Griffith

May the golden-handed, life-bestowing, well-guiding, exhilarating and affluent Savitri [Asura] be present;
for the deity, if worshipped in the evening, is at hand, driving away Rakshasas and Yatudhanas. – Translated by HH Wilson
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asura

The Zoroastrians have Verethragna instead of the Hindu Vritraghna. They have Harahvaiti instead of the Hindu Saraswati. They have Yima instead of Hindu Yama.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Is anything 'Hinduism' anymore? With all these branch/group/school/sect getting excluded from the term 'Hinduism' ..

THAT is Hinduism and no branch/group/school/sect is excluded (unless it strays real far) or denies being Hindu.

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

"Vedic, post: 4576833, member: 59045"] What's the difference between Hinduism and the Vedic religion?

Namaste,

What do you consider the Vedic religion? and Why?

1) Vishnu was a minor deity in the Rig Veda but majority of the Hindus blindly worship him as the supreme God.

That is a bit condescending, in what way do Hindus "Blindly", worship?

2) Rudra who was an another minor deity in the Rig Veda transformed into Shiva of modern Hinduism.

So?

3) The Vedic religion strictly followed hard polytheism worshipping all the Vishvadevas as a collective whole while modern Hindus rely heavily on the Upanishads and have an idealistic outlook towards their world.

What is the difference between having a idealistic outlook and worshiping the Vishvadevas?

4) There was no idolatry in the Vedic religion while modern Hinduism due to existence of the Agamas is too imbibed in idol worship ignoring the existence of the Vedic gods.

These are Abrahamic concepts, not applicable to Hinduism or Vedas.

5)Mitra, Varuna, Agni, Soma, Indra, Yama, Aruna, Usha, Rudra, Ashwin, Pushan, Savitr, Aditi and other Vedic gods are replaced by Hanuman, Ganesha, Kali, Rama, Krishna, Subramanya and other Hindu gods.

No, all are still recognised, when conducting any Havan/Puja, respect is given to all the Devtas and Devis.

6) There was no Sanyas for women in the Vedic period but many Hindus today openly give Sanyas for women which was forbidden by the Vedic rishis.

So?, people and cultures evolve, nothing wrong in this.

7) Vedic rituals were considered very seriously and offering to the gods were made daily. These rituals were very intellectual rather than the superstition that we see in modern Hinduism.

Again vary condescending, What is superstitious about Hindu rituals?

8) Modern Hinduism gives too much emphasis on the Upanishads ignoring the fact that without the Vedas there can be no Upanishads.

Well, that is not true, any Hindu who even knows of the Upanishads, is quite clear on the inspirations of the Upanishads.

9) The Vedic rishis considered the world to be real but Shankara who was a crypto-Buddhist corrupted the Vedas and introduced the doctrine of Mayavada or Illusionism which was a Buddhist doctrine into modern Hinduism.

How did Shankara corrupt the Vedas?

10) Vedas are most sacred books for vedicc people and Geeta, Ramayan and mahabharat are most sacred books of hinduism according to most modern day hindus.

Mahabharatta and Ramayana all acknowledged the existence and the authority of the Vedas and considers the Vedas and Upanishads as sacred, those who have read the great epics will know.

Dhanyavad

 

[Stormcry]

There was no time when Vedic gods were worshiped in idols. They've been worshiped since immemorial time but in Yagyas. Today also they're worshipped in Yagyas. They're not forgotten as claimed by our zealous member @Vedic. Hindus believe in their existence.

One should know that Vedic religion is ever evolving. This has been Confirmed by Puranas. It is said that during Satya Yuga there was no idol worship. There was Manas Puja- Worshiping through the mind. It's really not good for a religion to not have evolution. Because it's of no use if the people's mind changes after thousands of years. Ancient aryans (Indigenous Indians) thought it would be better for less intelligent people of kaliyuga to follow other simple ways of renunciation from samsara. So they give importance to Nama Japa and vedic/tantric idol worship.

Keep your mythical aryan theory and that mythical PIE in dustbin.