What's the moral basis for the UUs?

[ForeverFaithful]

If I'm saved what's my gain from being a good person?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

You seem to be a bit confused as to what Unitarian Unversalism is. In the United States, UU is not a religion but a community of all religions. Everyone who goes to a UU church tends to agree with 7 principles but there is no creed or religious belief that all must share. The UU church comes from the Christian denominations of Unitarianism and Universalism but both of these have different views on the afterlife. Since the two denominations merged in 1961 and opened their doors to all religions you could have a multitude of views on what happens after death. In fact, if you asked 100 UUs what their thoughts on the afterlife are you're likely to get 150 answers. Its just how we roll.

 

[Storm]

If I'm saved what's my gain from being a good person?

Morality for its own sake. You should try it.

 

[Matthew78]

You seem to be a bit confused as to what Unitarian Unversalism is. In the United States, UU is not a religion but a community of all religions. Everyone who goes to a UU church tends to agree with 7 principles but there is no creed or religious belief that all must share. The UU church comes from the Christian denominations of Unitarianism and Universalism but both of these have different views on the afterlife. Since the two denominations merged in 1961 and opened their doors to all religions you could have a multitude of views on what happens after death. In fact, if you asked 100 UUs what their thoughts on the afterlife are you're likely to get 150 answers. Its just how we roll.

I have to disagree; Unitarian Universalism is a religion. It's a creedless religion, which encourages people to develop their own beliefs and spirituality. It's a liberal, freethinking faith communtiy that uses 7 principles as a guideline for developing one's own spiritual beliefs.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I have to disagree; Unitarian Universalism is a religion. It's a creedless religion, which encourages people to develop their own beliefs and spirituality. It's a liberal, freethinking faith communtiy that uses 7 principles as a guideline for developing one's own spiritual beliefs.

While this is true, it is an alternative definition of religion that only UUs will subscribe to. When discribing UU to non-UUs I find it better to use terms and definitions that they understand.

 

[Matthew78]

While this is true, it is an alternative definition of religion that only UUs will subscribe to. When discribing UU to non-UUs I find it better to use terms and definitions that they understand.

I have no objection here!

 

[nnmartin]

I think it's hard to really call UU 'religion' if you openly accept atheists.

 

[ForeverFaithful]

Morality for its own sake. You should try it.

Who's morality? Mine, Kant's, Peter Singer's or Christ's?

 

[bicker]

I have to disagree; Unitarian Universalism is a religion. It's a creedless religion, which encourages people to develop their own beliefs and spirituality. It's a liberal, freethinking faith communtiy that uses 7 principles as a guideline for developing one's own spiritual beliefs.

While this is true, it is an alternative definition of religion that only UUs will subscribe to. When discribing UU to non-UUs I find it better to use terms and definitions that they understand.

I have no objection here!

I do. Letting other people define you is accepting unfounded domination by them. UU is a religion - it is my religion - and in precisely the same way that Roman Catholicism is the Pope's religion. Refusal, by anyone, to acknowledge and accept that UU is (specifically) my "religion" is no different from a Jew refusing to accept Islam as a Muslim's religion, no different from a Wiccan refusing to accept Hinduism as a Hindu person's religion.

Beyond that, I think we have to keep the notion of a "creedless religion" in its proper perspective, i.e., as a reflection of reasonable, human reactions - prickly reactions - many UUs have with regard to oppressive religious perspectives that they were subjected to in their youth. I feel that use of the term "creedless" contradicts the notion that there are "7 principles as a guideline for developing one's own spiritual beliefs". As if every Jew considers every tenet of Judaism as 100% wholly and completely on-target and inviolable, and that they all interpret each one of those tenets in precisely the same way. They don't; and neither should UUs be expected to. So converting that fact into an assertion that therefore UU cannot be a religion makes no sense.

I think it's hard to really call UU 'religion' if you openly accept atheists.

My response to that assertion is typically to suggest folks try harder when called-upon to do so, and respect and honor someone else's self-identification with regard to these things. I see no operational difference between "God" as heartfully-embraced by Christians, Jews, and Muslims, and a collection of beliefs and values, including the reasons for holding to those beliefs and values, as heartfully-embraced by many atheists. These labels are different ways of labeling the exact same core concept-classes.

 

[Storm]

Who's morality? Mine, Kant's, Peter Singer's or Christ's?

If it's not your own, it's not morality at all. Only blind obedience.

 

[Storm]

I think it's hard to really call UU 'religion' if you openly accept atheists.

You mean like Buddhism? :sarcastic

 

[Storm]

To answer the thread's title question, the moral foundation of UU is the 7 Principles:

1. The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
2. Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
3. Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
4. A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
5. The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
6. The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
7. Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

As to the description of "creedless" religion... not at all. Ours is a covenantal faith, but the above is clearly a creed.

 

[ForeverFaithful]

If it's not your own, it's not morality at all. Only blind obedience.

or pragmatic experience, I follow "blindly" the scientific theories of the ages as they seem to work.

However your above reasons are valid enogh for morality, yet I worry they lead to relativism

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I do. Letting other people define you is accepting unfounded domination by them. UU is a religion - it is my religion - and in precisely the same way that Roman Catholicism is the Pope's religion. Refusal, by anyone, to acknowledge and accept that UU is (specifically) my "religion" is no different from a Jew refusing to accept Islam as a Muslim's religion, no different from a Wiccan refusing to accept Hinduism as a Hindu person's religion.

I accept that you define UU that way and I make no attempt to define it for you. But surely you can see that others will have a different defintion of what a religion is and UU does not fit within the strict confines of that definition. When discussing religion with these people I find it much easier to speak their language and use their defintions rather than spend all my time and energy trying to explain why I've changed the meaning of so many terms they consider unchangable.

 

[bicker]

I accept that you define UU that way and I make no attempt to define it for you. But surely you can see that others will have a different defintion of what a religion is and UU does not fit within the strict confines of that definition.

And indeed some Christians use such rationalizations to declare other Christians as "not Christian". I simply don't see the point in granting any credence to such presumption.

When discussing religion with these people I find it much easier to speak their language and use their defintions rather than spend all my time and energy trying to explain why I've changed the meaning of so many terms they consider unchangable.

Y'see, I think that ("speak their language") is precisely why I disagree with your approach. "They" need to understand that that which we do, the way we engage the realm of faith and morality, is every bit as valid as the way they do. By kowtowing to their disparagement of the value and merit of our faith, we would be feeding their misunderstanding of our nature.

 

[Antiochian]

or pragmatic experience, I follow "blindly" the scientific theories of the ages as they seem to work.

However your above reasons are valid enogh for morality, yet I worry they lead to relativism

Speaking of relativism, do you know how many Christian denominations there are, all of whose widely varying interpretations of scripture on A, B, and C are correct because it's *their* interpretation?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Y'see, I think that ("speak their language") is precisely why I disagree with your approach.

I supose we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[ForeverFaithful]

Speaking of relativism, do you know how many Christian denominations there are, all of whose widely varying interpretations of scripture on A, B, and C are correct because it's *their* interpretation?

yes there interpretation may vary, but they hold very similar moral understandings yet humans are flawed

 

[Antiochian]

yes there interpretation may vary, but they hold very similar moral understandings yet humans are flawed

Orthodox Jews don't eat shellfish. Greek Orthodox don't eat animal products on Wednesday, Friday, or during Lent. Greek Orthodox don't allow menstruating women to receive communion. Baptists generally allow divorce and remarriage with no questions asked, I'm guessing Amish probably don't. Some Christians think it's a sin to watch television or to wear make-up, many more don't. Some Christians think it a sin to work on Sunday, some don't. Protestants believe grace and faith alone save, Eastern Orthodox and Catholics say works are involved. Not what I'd call similar moral understandings.

 

[ForeverFaithful]

Orthodox Jews don't eat shellfish. Greek Orthodox don't eat animal products on Wednesday, Friday, or during Lent. Greek Orthodox don't allow menstruating women to receive communion. Baptists generally allow divorce and remarriage with no questions asked, I'm guessing Amish probably don't. Some Christians think it's a sin to watch television or to wear make-up, many more don't. Some Christians think it a sin to work on Sunday, some don't. Protestants believe grace and faith alone save, Eastern Orthodox and Catholics say works are involved. Not what I'd call similar moral understandings.

That's the fallen condition of man, who needs the regeneration of the Holy Spirit who can only truly work if we abandon all ideologies