What's your opinion on Sikhism?

[Onkara]

Thank you everyone for the continued posts, I am reading them also

 

[K.Venugopal]

wounds of Sikh Genocide of eighty are not yet healed...

This was a genocide that never would have happened but for a Pakistan sponsored secessionist Khalistan movement which caused widespread bloodshed of Hindus and Sikhs, the eventual destruction of Sikhism’s holiest shrine, culminating in the orgy of violence in the aftermath of Indira Gandhi's assassination. This is precisely the danger I alluded to when I said in post no. 10 … an erroneous assumption of its [Sikhism’s] Islamic links (when the link is actually Sufi) may in future guide it [Sikhism] into an exclusive path and sever it from its greater association with liberal Hinduism.

 

[YmirGF]

This was a genocide that never would have happened but for a Pakistan sponsored secessionist Khalistan movement which caused widespread bloodshed of Hindus and Sikhs, the eventual destruction of Sikhism’s holiest shrine, culminating in the orgy of violence in the aftermath of Indira Gandhi's assassination. This is precisely the danger I alluded to when I said in post no. 10 … an erroneous assumption of its [Sikhism’s] Islamic links (when the link is actually Sufi) may in future guide it [Sikhism] into an exclusive path and sever it from its greater association with liberal Hinduism.

I don't think I have seen a more astute analysis of this situation, K.Venugopal. Personally, I find it troubling that a presumably spiritual person would equate Indira Gandhi with Adolf Hitler. It is a somewhat breath-taking comparison.

Rather than demonize Sikh's over the matter, I would simply chalk it up to fanatical elements of an otherwise fine group of people. Perhaps these blights on Sikh history are a good example of what happens when folks let themselves develop an exaggerated sense of divinity and misguided sense of holiness by mistaking their perception for reality.

 

[MSizer]

I like the inclusivity of Sikhism. I like the fact that it is core to the beliefs in Sikhism that gender, race and nationality have no effect on every person's dignity.

 

[Metempsychosis]

Oddly, I hadn't noted that people deserve to be assassinated. Thanks for the heads up. That's quite instructive.

Her Operation Blue Star is the least thoughtful act which one could do against Khalistan.

 

[WayFarer]

I have thought about the topic question and have yet to settle on an answer that satisfies me as to being able to sum up my feelings about Sikhism.
There is a long version that I am sure would consist mainly of rambling and far too much personal history, as tempting as it may be.
The short version is: "I'm for it."
I think I will try for a mid-sized version though.
My theological view is unlike any espoused group view that I can find and is certainly unlike the vast majority of theological views where I live. That being said I love to study the wisdom that is gained from man(kind)s attempt to put God/Creator/etc into perspective. Of course here is where I diverge from that a bit. I think you fail whenever you try to "put" God (that will be the generic title I will use for this post) into anything.

The Tao is a limitless vessel;
Used by the self, it is not filled by the world;
It cannot be cut, knotted, dimmed or stilled;
Its depths are hidden, ubiquitous and eternal;
I don't know where it comes from;
It comes before nature.
~Tao Te Ching

Who really knows? Who can presume to tell it?
Whence was it born? Whence issued this creation?
Even the gods came after its emergence.
Then who can tell from whence it came to be?
That out of which creation has arisen,
whether it held it firm or it did not,
He who surveys it in the highest heaven,
He surely knows--or maybe He does not!
~Rig Veda

ਜੇ ਕੋ ਆਖੈ ਬੋਲੁਵਿਗਾੜੁ ॥
If anyone presumes to describe God,
ਤਾ ਲਿਖੀਐ ਸਿਰਿ ਗਾਵਾਰਾ ਗਾਵਾਰੁ ॥੨੬॥
he shall be known as the greatest fool of fools!
~Sri Guru Granth Sahib

​

These sentiments reflected my own before I even knew what mine were. I study religion to understand man more than to understand God. Because as the Creation reflects the Creator, our words reflect who we are. I have always been greatly impressed with the words of the Sikh Gurus. I have read their life stories (condensed version I am sure) and I am so impressed with their stories at least one friend of mine has asked if I was going to become a Sikh. (I guess I talk about several of the Gurus quite a bit.) I told him that I suspect the answer could be that I have always been a Sikh, in thought and approach if not by word. My words of admiration for Guru Nanak Ji and many of his followers can not be adequately expressed.

Now aren't you glad that I went with the shorter "mid-sized" version.
​

 

[K.Venugopal]

ਜੇ ਕੋ ਆਖੈ ਬੋਲੁਵਿਗਾੜੁ ॥

If anyone presumes to describe God,
ਤਾ ਲਿਖੀਐ ਸਿਰਿ ਗਾਵਾਰਾ ਗਾਵਾਰੁ ॥੨੬॥
he shall be known as the greatest fool of fools!

~Sri Guru Granth Sahib​

Isn't it necessary that to describe something, that thing has to be outside of you? If this is so, then the verse in Guru Granth Sahib could be indicating that the knower of God (Brahman) becomes God (Brahman) and no "other" remains to describe to or about. If the greatest of masters still describe God, it is only as a concession to the understanding of the questioner, though it be a concession of truth itself. Thus, the greatest of masters would be the first to concede they are fools when they presume to talk about God.

 

[YmirGF]

Thus, the greatest of masters would be the first to concede they are fools when they presume to talk about God.

Two for two. So, very true. I'll give you another frubal when I am reloaded.

 

[GURSIKH]

I have thought about the topic question and have yet to settle on an answer that satisfies me as to being able to sum up my feelings about Sikhism.
There is a long version that I am sure would consist mainly of rambling and far too much personal history, as tempting as it may be.
The short version is: "I'm for it."
I think I will try for a mid-sized version though.


Now aren't you glad that I went with the shorter "mid-sized" version.
[/LEFT]

:no: m not Glad , longer version for me please :liturgy:

 

[WayFarer]

Isn't it necessary that to describe something, that thing has to be outside of you?

I do not think so. Descriptions are the first steps of understanding and I find that there are many people who do not know/understand themselves and so can not understand the decisions they make or why their world view is the way it is. So, in many cases, they would not be able to describe themselves or their own motives (without ego getting in the way).

 

[WayFarer]

:no: m not Glad , longer version for me please :liturgy:

Gursikh Ji, I can not tell if you are a glutton for punishment or perhaps having a hard time sleeping and need something to bore you to sleep.

 

[GURSIKH]

Gursikh Ji, I can not tell if you are a glutton for punishment or perhaps having a hard time sleeping and need something to bore you to sleep.

WayFarer ji

you are very mysterious poster for me since your first post ,

:tribal:


m ready :beach:

blessings

 

[GURSIKH]

I like the inclusivity of Sikhism. I like the fact that it is core to the beliefs in Sikhism that gender, race and nationality have no effect on every person's dignity.

thanks :bounce

its great to know abt Athiests view !!!!!

Guru Nanak sahib

ਮਃ ੧ ॥
First Mehl:

ਭੰਡਿ ਜੰਮੀਐ ਭੰਡਿ ਨਿੰਮੀਐ ਭੰਡਿ ਮੰਗਣੁ ਵੀਆਹੁ ॥
From woman, man is born; within woman, man is conceived; to woman he is engaged and married.

ਭੰਡਹੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਦੋਸਤੀ ਭੰਡਹੁ ਚਲੈ ਰਾਹੁ ॥
Woman becomes his friend; through woman, the future generations come.

ਭੰਡੁ ਮੁਆ ਭੰਡੁ ਭਾਲੀਐ ਭੰਡਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਬੰਧਾਨੁ ॥
When his woman dies, he seeks another woman; to woman he is bound.

ਸੋ ਕਿਉ ਮੰਦਾ ਆਖੀਐ ਜਿਤੁ ਜੰਮਹਿ ਰਾਜਾਨ ॥
So why call her bad? From her, kings are born.

ਭੰਡਹੁ ਹੀ ਭੰਡੁ ਊਪਜੈ ਭੰਡੈ ਬਾਝੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
From woman, woman is born; without woman, there would be no one at all.

ਨਾਨਕ ਭੰਡੈ ਬਾਹਰਾ ਏਕੋ ਸਚਾ ਸੋਇ ॥
O Nanak, only the True Lord is without a woman

 

[ZoyaHayat]

thanks :bounce

its great to know abt Athiests view !!!!!

Guru Nanak sahib

ਮਃ ੧ ॥
First Mehl:

ਭੰਡਿ ਜੰਮੀਐ ਭੰਡਿ ਨਿੰਮੀਐ ਭੰਡਿ ਮੰਗਣੁ ਵੀਆਹੁ ॥
From woman, man is born; within woman, man is conceived; to woman he is engaged and married.

ਭੰਡਹੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਦੋਸਤੀ ਭੰਡਹੁ ਚਲੈ ਰਾਹੁ ॥
Woman becomes his friend; through woman, the future generations come.

ਭੰਡੁ ਮੁਆ ਭੰਡੁ ਭਾਲੀਐ ਭੰਡਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਬੰਧਾਨੁ ॥
When his woman dies, he seeks another woman; to woman he is bound.

ਸੋ ਕਿਉ ਮੰਦਾ ਆਖੀਐ ਜਿਤੁ ਜੰਮਹਿ ਰਾਜਾਨ ॥
So why call her bad? From her, kings are born.

ਭੰਡਹੁ ਹੀ ਭੰਡੁ ਊਪਜੈ ਭੰਡੈ ਬਾਝੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
From woman, woman is born; without woman, there would be no one at all.

ਨਾਨਕ ਭੰਡੈ ਬਾਹਰਾ ਏਕੋ ਸਚਾ ਸੋਇ ॥
O Nanak, only the True Lord is without a woman

Indeed Gursikh xxx

 

[zenzero]

Friend onkrah,

What's your opinion on Sikhism?
I would like to know

None as one needs to BE to have one.
At most can only state it as another WAY / PATH.

Love & rgds

 

[Satsangi]

However, an erroneous assumption of its Islamic links (when the link is actually Sufi) may in future guide it into an exclusive path and sever it from its greater association with liberal Hinduism.

I very sadly agree with K. Venugopal. I hold high respect for the Sikhs that I have met- had few class mates and they all were great. About Sikhism, I do not know much but appears like combination of Hinduism and Islam. The Sikh I have met are "psychologically" closer to Hindus.

Regards,

 

[GURSIKH]

Indeed Gursikh xxx

:flower::flower::flower::flower:


Thanks my frnds Gopal ji n Satsangi n zen ji


For Sikhs all Hindus , Muslims ,Christian s , Budh ,jain , jews , ....... are ONE
:group:


Tenth Nanak sahib e kmaal Guru Gobind singh ji says

ਹਿੰਦੂ ਤੁਰਕ ਕੋਊ ਰਾਫਜੀ ਇਮਾਮ ਸਾਫੀ ਮਾਨਸ ਕੀ ਜਾਤਿ ਸਬੈ ਏਕੈ ਪਹਿਚਾਨਬੋ ॥
हिंदू तुरक कोऊ राफजी इमाम साफी मानस की जाति सबै एकै पहिचानबो ॥
Someone is Hindu and someone a Muslim, then someone is Shia, and someone a Sunni, but all the human beings, as a species, are recognized as one and the same.

ਕਰਤਾ ਕਰੀਮ ਸੋਈ ਰਾਜਕ ਰਹੀਮ ਓਈ ਦੂਸਰੋ ਨ ਭੇਦ ਕੋਈ ਭੂਲਿ ਭ੍ਰਮ ਮਾਨਬੋ ॥
करता करीम सोई राजक रहीम ओई दूसरो न भेद कोई भूलि भ्रम मानबो ॥
Karta (The Creator) and Karim (Merciful) is the same Lord, Razak (The Sustainer) and Rahim (Compassionate) is the same Lord, there is no other second, therefore consider this verbal distinguishing feature as an error and an illusion.

ਏਕ ਹੀ ਕੀ ਸੇਵ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਕੋ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਏਕ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਸਰੂਪ ਸਬੈ ਏਕੈ ਜੋਤ ਜਾਨਬੋ ॥੧੫॥੮੫॥
एक ही की सेव सभ ही को गुरदेव एक एक ही सरूप सबै एकै जोत जानबो ॥१५॥८५॥
Thus worship the ONE LORD, who is the common enlightener of all; all have been created in His Image and amongst all comprehend the same ONE LIGHT. 15.85.

ਦੇਹਰਾ ਮਸੀਤ ਸੋਈ ਪੂਜਾ ਔ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਓਈ ਮਾਨਸ ਸਬੈ ਏਕ ਪੈ ਅਨੇਕ ਕੋ ਭ੍ਰਮਾਉ ਹੈ ॥
देहरा मसीत सोई पूजा औ निवाज ओई मानस सबै एक पै अनेक को भ्रमाउ है ॥
The temple and the mosque are the same, there is no difference between a Hindu worship and Muslim prayer; all the human beings are the same, but the illusion is of various types.

ਦੇਵਤਾ ਅਦੇਵ ਜੱਛ ਗੰਧ੍ਰਬ ਤੁਰਕ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਨਿਆਰੇ ਨਿਆਰੇ ਦੇਸਨ ਕੇ ਭੇਸ ਕੋ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਉ ਹੈ ॥
देवता अदेव ज्छ गंध्रब तुरक हिंदू निआरे निआरे देसन के भेस को प्रभाउ है ॥
The gods, demons, Yakshas, Gandharvas, Turks and Hindus… all these are due to the differences of the various garbs of different countries.

ਏਕੈ ਨੈਨ ਏਕੈ ਕਾਨ ਏਕੈ ਦੇਹ ਏਕੈ ਬਾਨ ਖਾਕ ਬਾਦ ਆਤਿਸ ਔ ਆਬ ਕੋ ਰਲਾਉ ਹੈ ॥
एकै नैन एकै कान एकै देह एकै बान खाक बाद आतिस औ आब को रलाउ है ॥
The eyes are the same, the ears the same, the bodies are the same and the habits are the same, all the creation is the amalgam of earth, air, fire and water.

ਅਲਹ ਅਭੇਖ ਸੋਈ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਅਉ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਓਈ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਸਰੂਪ ਸਭੈ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਬਨਾਉ ਹੈ ॥੧੬॥੮੬॥
अलह अभेख सोई पुरान अउ कुरान ओई एक ही सरूप सभै एक ही बनाउ है ॥१६॥८६॥
Allah of Muslims and Abhekh (Guiseless) of Hindus are the same, the Puranas of Hindus and the holy Quran of the Muslims depict the same reality; all have been created in the image of the same Lord and have the same formation. 16.86.

ਜੈਸੇ ਏਕ ਆਗ ਤੇ ਕਨੂਕਾ ਕੋਟਿ ਆਗ ਉਠੈ ਨਿਆਰੇ ਨਿਆਰੇ ਹੁਇ ਕੈ ਫੇਰਿ ਆਗ ਮੈ ਮਿਲਾਹਿਂਗੇ ॥
जैसे एक आग ते कनूका कोटि आग उठै निआरे निआरे हुइ कै फेरि आग मै मिलाहिंगे ॥
Just as millions of sparks are created from the fire; although they are different entities, they merge in the same fire.

ਜੈਸੇ ਏਕ ਧੂਰਿ ਤੇ ਅਨੇਕ ਧੂਰਿ ਪੂਰਤ ਹੈ ਧੂਰਿ ਕੇ ਕਨੂਕਾ ਫੇਰ ਧੂਰਿ ਹਿ ਸਮਾਹਿਂਗੇ
जैसे एक धूरि ते अनेक धूरि पूरत है धूरि के कनूका फेर धूरि हि समाहिंगे
Just as from of waves are created on the surface of the big rivers and all the waves are called water.

ਜੈਸੇ ਏਕ ਨਦ ਤੇ ਤੰਰਗ ਕੋਟਿ ਉਪਜਤ ਹੈਂ ਪਾਨਿ ਕੇ ਤਰੰਗ ਸਬੈ ਪਾਨਿ ਹੀ ਕਹਾਹਿਂਗੇ ॥
जैसे एक नद ते तंरग कोटि उपजत हैं पानि के तरंग सबै पानि ही कहाहिंगे ॥
Similarly the animate and inanimate objects come out of the Supreme Lord; having been created from the same Lord, they merge in the same Lord. 17.87.


:flower2::flower2:

 

[ZoyaHayat]

:flower::flower::flower::flower:


Thanks my frnds Gopal ji n Satsangi n zen ji


For Sikhs all Hindus , Muslims ,Christian s , Budh ,jain , jews , ....... are ONE
:group:


Tenth Nanak sahib e kmaal Guru Gobind singh ji says

ਹਿੰਦੂ ਤੁਰਕ ਕੋਊ ਰਾਫਜੀ ਇਮਾਮ ਸਾਫੀ ਮਾਨਸ ਕੀ ਜਾਤਿ ਸਬੈ ਏਕੈ ਪਹਿਚਾਨਬੋ ॥
हिंदू तुरक कोऊ राफजी इमाम साफी मानस की जाति सबै एकै पहिचानबो ॥
Someone is Hindu and someone a Muslim, then someone is Shia, and someone a Sunni, but all the human beings, as a species, are recognized as one and the same.

ਕਰਤਾ ਕਰੀਮ ਸੋਈ ਰਾਜਕ ਰਹੀਮ ਓਈ ਦੂਸਰੋ ਨ ਭੇਦ ਕੋਈ ਭੂਲਿ ਭ੍ਰਮ ਮਾਨਬੋ ॥
करता करीम सोई राजक रहीम ओई दूसरो न भेद कोई भूलि भ्रम मानबो ॥
Karta (The Creator) and Karim (Merciful) is the same Lord, Razak (The Sustainer) and Rahim (Compassionate) is the same Lord, there is no other second, therefore consider this verbal distinguishing feature as an error and an illusion.

ਏਕ ਹੀ ਕੀ ਸੇਵ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਕੋ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਏਕ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਸਰੂਪ ਸਬੈ ਏਕੈ ਜੋਤ ਜਾਨਬੋ ॥੧੫॥੮੫॥
एक ही की सेव सभ ही को गुरदेव एक एक ही सरूप सबै एकै जोत जानबो ॥१५॥८५॥
Thus worship the ONE LORD, who is the common enlightener of all; all have been created in His Image and amongst all comprehend the same ONE LIGHT. 15.85.

ਦੇਹਰਾ ਮਸੀਤ ਸੋਈ ਪੂਜਾ ਔ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਓਈ ਮਾਨਸ ਸਬੈ ਏਕ ਪੈ ਅਨੇਕ ਕੋ ਭ੍ਰਮਾਉ ਹੈ ॥
देहरा मसीत सोई पूजा औ निवाज ओई मानस सबै एक पै अनेक को भ्रमाउ है ॥
The temple and the mosque are the same, there is no difference between a Hindu worship and Muslim prayer; all the human beings are the same, but the illusion is of various types.

ਦੇਵਤਾ ਅਦੇਵ ਜੱਛ ਗੰਧ੍ਰਬ ਤੁਰਕ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਨਿਆਰੇ ਨਿਆਰੇ ਦੇਸਨ ਕੇ ਭੇਸ ਕੋ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਉ ਹੈ ॥
देवता अदेव ज्छ गंध्रब तुरक हिंदू निआरे निआरे देसन के भेस को प्रभाउ है ॥
The gods, demons, Yakshas, Gandharvas, Turks and Hindus… all these are due to the differences of the various garbs of different countries.

ਏਕੈ ਨੈਨ ਏਕੈ ਕਾਨ ਏਕੈ ਦੇਹ ਏਕੈ ਬਾਨ ਖਾਕ ਬਾਦ ਆਤਿਸ ਔ ਆਬ ਕੋ ਰਲਾਉ ਹੈ ॥
एकै नैन एकै कान एकै देह एकै बान खाक बाद आतिस औ आब को रलाउ है ॥
The eyes are the same, the ears the same, the bodies are the same and the habits are the same, all the creation is the amalgam of earth, air, fire and water.

ਅਲਹ ਅਭੇਖ ਸੋਈ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਅਉ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਓਈ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਸਰੂਪ ਸਭੈ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਬਨਾਉ ਹੈ ॥੧੬॥੮੬॥
अलह अभेख सोई पुरान अउ कुरान ओई एक ही सरूप सभै एक ही बनाउ है ॥१६॥८६॥
Allah of Muslims and Abhekh (Guiseless) of Hindus are the same, the Puranas of Hindus and the holy Quran of the Muslims depict the same reality; all have been created in the image of the same Lord and have the same formation. 16.86.

ਜੈਸੇ ਏਕ ਆਗ ਤੇ ਕਨੂਕਾ ਕੋਟਿ ਆਗ ਉਠੈ ਨਿਆਰੇ ਨਿਆਰੇ ਹੁਇ ਕੈ ਫੇਰਿ ਆਗ ਮੈ ਮਿਲਾਹਿਂਗੇ ॥
जैसे एक आग ते कनूका कोटि आग उठै निआरे निआरे हुइ कै फेरि आग मै मिलाहिंगे ॥
Just as millions of sparks are created from the fire; although they are different entities, they merge in the same fire.

ਜੈਸੇ ਏਕ ਧੂਰਿ ਤੇ ਅਨੇਕ ਧੂਰਿ ਪੂਰਤ ਹੈ ਧੂਰਿ ਕੇ ਕਨੂਕਾ ਫੇਰ ਧੂਰਿ ਹਿ ਸਮਾਹਿਂਗੇ
जैसे एक धूरि ते अनेक धूरि पूरत है धूरि के कनूका फेर धूरि हि समाहिंगे
Just as from of waves are created on the surface of the big rivers and all the waves are called water.

ਜੈਸੇ ਏਕ ਨਦ ਤੇ ਤੰਰਗ ਕੋਟਿ ਉਪਜਤ ਹੈਂ ਪਾਨਿ ਕੇ ਤਰੰਗ ਸਬੈ ਪਾਨਿ ਹੀ ਕਹਾਹਿਂਗੇ ॥
जैसे एक नद ते तंरग कोटि उपजत हैं पानि के तरंग सबै पानि ही कहाहिंगे ॥
Similarly the animate and inanimate objects come out of the Supreme Lord; having been created from the same Lord, they merge in the same Lord. 17.87.

Gursikh Ji ...

The sayings of Guru Gobind Singh are true and correct ...

mwuah xxx

 

[Breathe]

I personally adore Sikhism.

The inclusiveness, the equality of all regardless of race, religion or gender, the beauty of the Guru Granth Sahib's beauty and its deep, mystical poetry, chardi kala (positive attitude), langar (a free kitchen where all may eat), as well as not using murti (icons of worship) and being monotheistic, it's just great!

Overall, Sikhism is awesome. I don't think I've met a Sikh I disliked.

 

[GURSIKH]

Second, the book of the Sikhs: GURU GRANTHA SAHIB. It was not written by one single man so I cannot tell you who the author is. It is a compilation from generation to generation. It was compiled from all sources, as no other book in the world. THE OLD TESTAMENT is only Jewish, THE NEW TESTAMENT is only Christian, BHAGAVADGITA IS only Hindu, DHAMMAPADA is only Buddhist, JIN SUTRAS only Jaina; but GURU GRANTHA SAHIB is the only book in the world taken from all the sources possible. Its sources come from Hindu, Mohammedan, Jaina, Buddhist, Christian. Such openness, no fanaticism.

The title GURU GRANTHA means 'the book of the masters', or 'the master book'. In it you will find Kabir, Nanak, Farid, and a long line of mystics belonging to different traditions, different schools, as if thousands of rivers are meeting in the ocean.

GURU GRANTHA is like an ocean. I will translate only one sentence of Nanak. He is the founder, so of course his words are compiled in GURU GRANTHA. He was the first master of the Sikhs; then followed a line of nine other masters. Sikhism was produced by ten masters. It is a rare religion because every other religion was created by only a single master.

Nanak says: The truth, the ultimate truth is unspeakable, so please forgive me, I will not speak about it but only sing it. If you can understand the language of music, then perhaps a chord in your heart may be touched. The transmission of the lamp is beyond words.


above are not my views but of OSHOs