When advocacy becomes a hate crime ...

[Jayhawker Soule]

Becomes suggests that it once was advocacy and then changed to something else.

I am militantly disinterested in defending the term advocacy, and if you think a discussion of this term has the slightest value in this thread then I apologize for doing such a horrible job communicating my disgust at the disparate attacks against the Mormon church and the ease with which some justify them.

 

[Smoke]

I'm confused. Was someone attacking gays on this thread? I missed it.

Jay purports to have knowledge of who committed these acts, or at least what kind of person committed them. He purports to know their motives. He started a thread about "advocacy" becoming a hate crime.

It's true that Jay never explicitly said what kind of advocacy had turned into a hate crime, but everyone responding on the thread seemed to know whom he meant, and Jay's acceptance of their assumption leads me to believe they were correct.

However, I must concede that, unlike Jay, I'm not able to read minds. Jay may have had the best of intentions.

Would you have thought so if he had assumed the reports were fraudulent, and had started a thread about the danger of religious faith becoming a hate crime?

 

[texan1]

Jay purports to have knowledge of who committed these acts, or at least what kind of person committed them. He purports to know their motives. He started a thread about "advocacy" becoming a hate crime.

It's true that Jay never explicitly said what kind of advocacy had turned into a hate crime, but everyone responding on the thread seemed to know whom he meant, and Jay's acceptance of their assumption leads me to believe they were correct.

However, I must concede that, unlike Jay, I'm not able to read minds. Jay may have had the best of intentions.

Would you have thought so if he had assumed the reports were fraudulent, and had started a thread about the danger of religious faith becoming a hate crime?

Yay! It's nice to see you out here again Midnight Blue! I always enjoy your input.

 

[UnityNow101]

I would rather have my favorite book burned to bits by a couple of lunatics who do not have the power to take away my right to belief, then to have my marriage license revoked because of the actions of people who have the power to take that right away...That is not condoning the actions of the book burners, but is placing both instances in their proper perspective.

 

[Elessar]

Whenever any book is burned anywhere it is an inexcusable destruction of knowledge. No knowledge is so evil, so fundamentally and totally wrong and despicable, that the only option is its destruction. No matter how much I'll disagree with anything from religious scriptures such as the Book of Mormon or Qur'an, or secular texts such as Mein Kampf, it unacceptable to destroy books for any reason - it in itself is a violation of freedom of speech, and, I think, itself a crime against civilization.

 

[Heneni]

I dont know about other people. But i have found that the gay agenda has become more and more aggresive. But....its become aggressive to the point where people find it 'in your face'.

'in your face' is not condusive to change. When anything changes because people feel like they were duped into it..it wont last and they will feel like they HAVE to agree with the gay agenda and afterwards will not feel compelled to love that which they felt forced into doing or agreeing to.

In my experience i have found gay people to be really kind, loving...you know just like many christians, and atheists. So in that way, who they are as a person, can have not preference to who somebody else is as a person. 'gay people are nice so let them marry as well' does not fly with most people. The gardener is nice too..should we let him move in?

For people who really believe in equility, they already see their gay friends as equal to them in both statue and respect. Just like they would respect every other person, even the gardener. Now if those people are faced with 'in your face' gay activism,i think they might be swayed the other way, which is defeating the gay purpose.

Its like your friends who are gay, who talk and chat to you everyday, one day rises up and they are at your doorstep with banners, and protesting....and i'll be thinking....what is this 'force' all about? Insecurity? Bully? No....If anything any more protest from the gay community is going to alienate the heterosexual people who they have been 'friends' with.

Hetereosexual people feel like the gay community wants to move into their house. Its not that we dont respect them as a person, but we dont feel like we have to give to them everything that is ours, simply because they want it.

I guess marriage is perceived by most heterosexuals as something belonging to them. It always has. Now the gay people want it for themselves as well. Try to think what a heterosexual person would feel like sharing his/her house with someone they like even respect, but all of a sudden feels compelled to open their doors to them, simply because they protest and demand it?

More protesting and more aggresive behaviour from the gay community is only going to hurt their agenda.



Heneni

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I dont know about other people. But i have found that the gay agenda has become more and more aggresive. But....its become aggressive to the point where people find it 'in your face'. ... More protesting and more aggresive behaviour from the gay community is only going to hurt their agenda.

This, too, is disgusting rubbish. The so-called "gay agenda" is people with the audacity to demand and expect the same rights and respect as that given their neighbors, and this drivel about "aggressive behavior" is the same slop thrown at Martin Luther King. Wouldn't life be so much nicer is those darn gay and colored folks weren't so darn uppity?

 

[Heneni]

This, too, is disgusting rubbish. The so-called "gay agenda" is people with the audacity to demand and expect the same rights and respect as that given their neighbors, and this drivel about "aggressive behavior" is the same slop thrown at Martin Luther King. Wouldn't life be so much nicer is those darn gay and colored folks weren't so darn uppity?

I dont care what you think is rubbish. And for the same reason, this type of response has never changed the world. If you care to read my post without your bitterness addding to it what is not intended you might notice that im for the gay people. Im for them in the sense that id love for them to stop having to be aggresive about their cause or agenda. It wont help them. It will only hurt them further.

Since you are deeply hurt yourself, and therefore feel like you need to label my opinions as rubbish, i can only suspect that you are exactly the kind of bully that wont change the world, but rather force it in any direction your wims want it to go. Whether I like it or not.

Heneni

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Whenever any book is burned anywhere it is an inexcusable destruction of knowledge. No knowledge is so evil, so fundamentally and totally wrong and despicable, that the only option is its destruction. No matter how much I'll disagree with anything from religious scriptures such as the Book of Mormon or Qur'an, or secular texts such as Mein Kampf, it unacceptable to destroy books for any reason - it in itself is a violation of freedom of speech, and, I think, itself a crime against civilization.

Well said.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Im for them in the sense that id love for them to stop having to be aggresive about their cause or agenda. It wont help them. It will only hurt them further.

As they said to the leaders on SCLC, SNCC, and CORE.

I can remember marching, picket sign in hand, singing a song characterizing your condescending drivel. Its refrain ...

You're only hurting your cause this way.

That's what all of us liberals say.​

Nobody likes things the way they are.

But you're going to fast and you're going to far!​

The outcome? You became obsolete and Obama became President.

 

[Heneni]

As they said to the leaders on SCLC, SNCC, and CORE.

I can remember marching, picket sign in hand, singing a song characterizing your condescending drivel. Its refrain ...

You're only hurting your cause this way.

That's what all of us liberals say.
​

Nobody likes things the way they are.

But you're going to fast and you're going to far!
​

The outcome? You became obsolete and Obama became President.

Before you congratulate yourself one more time, let me remind you that when the dust has settled and the protestors go home, after being victorious, the magic of the moment soon wears off, and monday morning people have to look each other in the eye and respect each other, when that magic has worn off. If waving your placards around gives you a sense of purpose, that purpose has failed unless you have secured the respect of your neighbour.

Protests RARELY if ever make people respect each other. I think my dear Jay....you need to re-evalute your own particular flavour of drivel.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Protests RARELY if ever make people respect each other.

Absolutely correct. And willful bigots RARELY warrant respect.

 

[Heneni]

Absolutely correct. And willful bigots RARELY warrant respect.

You mean i shouldnt respect you? Ok...but thats your descision not mine.While you point that grumpy finger at others, you have three pointing back. Now give me your hand lets reason together. I could give you a manicure while were at it as well. I have a mind of my own, and if you dont like it, does that make you a bigot or me?


Heneni

 

[Luminous]

Book Of Mormon Set Ablaze On Church Door Step.

What ever.:sad4: It has skin yet cannot feel. :angel2:

 

[Alceste]

Please specify.

Was it ignorant to leap to a conclusion about who committed these acts and why?
Or was it ignorant to use the pretense of defending a minority group to attack another minority group?

In either case, you should probably share your inside knowledge of these acts with the police.

Well I thought it was a pretty good point you made. There are no shortage of people with a grudge against the Mormon church, so there are a lot of possibilities. For example, I once knew a fundamentalist Christian with a whole library of books on how Mormonism is a false religion - much to the dismay of his Mormon girlfriend.

I like how the spectacle of two suited men in an economy car is presented as evidence of a gay anti-Mormon conspiracy.

That said, I do think it's more appropriate to burn religious books in the privacy of your own home, for example at a backyard barbeque with like-minded friends. Even then, I would wait until I was out of charcoal briquettes before whipping out my big box of Watchtower mags and bibles pilfered from hotel rooms...

IMO, "hate crime" is not an appropriate term until it's been firmly established who did this and what their motive was. Until then, I wouldn't assume this is any more serious than a tasteless and somewhat dangerous prank, like the "flaming bag of dog droppings on the doorstep" gag.

 

[Luminous]

like the "flaming bag of dog droppings on the doorstep" gag.

Are you comparing the Mormon book with a bag of dog droppings?
no, dog droppings are not worshiped idols. only flags, books, art, etc are idols which have to be put down. pranks are for little kids, statements are for radicals, actions are for the strong.

 

[Alceste]

Are you comparing the Mormon book with a bag of dog droppings?
no, dog droppings are not worshiped idols. only flags, books, art, etc are idols which have to be put down. pranks are for little kids, statements are for radicals, actions are for the strong.

Because I don't worship idols, I'm afraid I can't empathize with anyone who is more horrified by a flag or book burning than a "bag-of-poop" burning. It's just stuff to me. If it was a mass burning of tens of thousands of books a la Nazi Germany, I would feel differently as there are real sociological consequences to the willful destruction of our accumulated knowledge. But a book of Mormon? They hand those out for free! They've got millions of them!

 

[DallasApple]

For example, I once knew a fundamentalist Christian with a whole library of books on how Mormonism is a false religion - much to the dismay of his Mormon girlfriend.

I've encountered quite a few Christians..that do not "accept" LDS or Mormonism to be a "credible" religion.They do not believe Mormons are "true Christians"..These same people..are more than likely to view Catholics in the same way..Not "true Christians"..

It does seem to me ..In general from what I've seen...Mormons get critisized by a more diverse group...than any other Christian based faith..

Love

Dallas

 

[Luminous]

I've encountered quite a few Christians..that do not "accept" LDS or Mormonism to be a "credible" religion.They do not believe Mormons are "true Christians"..These same people..are more than likely to view Catholics in the same way..Not "true Christians"..

It does seem to me ..In general from what I've seen...Mormons get critisized by a more diverse group...than any other Christian based faith..

Love

Dallas

And yet mormons seem to be the most 'pure' christians of all.(generalizing)

 

[Alceste]

And yet mormons seem to be the most 'pure' christians of all.(generalizing)

In what way? I think the Anglicans are currently doing a better job of "loving your neighbour"...