John 8:
48The Jews answered and said to Him, “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?”
49Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me.
50“But I do not seek My glory; there is One who seeks and judges.
51“Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.”
52The Jews said to Him, “Now we know that You have a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets
also; and You say, ‘If anyone keeps My word, he will never taste of death.’
53“Surely You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died? The prophets died too;
whom do You make Yourself out to be?” 54Jesus answered, “If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God’;
55and you have not come to know Him, but I know Him; and if I say that I do not know Him, I will be a liar like you, but I do know Him and keep His word.
56“Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw
it and was glad.”
57So the Jews said to Him,
“You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” 58Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was
born, I am.”
59Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.
Of course the Jews were speaking about 50 years old as being an age of maturity, but so?
There is a word in the Greek text that is translated "born". I think literally it means "came into being".
That being the case, it appears that Jesus was speaking about at least existing before Abraham came into existence.
But there is another question also that Jesus was answering with His answer "I am", it is the question in verse 53 in green.
Jesus may have been speaking in Aramaic but the scriptures they used were the Septuagint in which God said to Moses (as far as I know) "Tell them
I am has sent you" (Ex 3:14) This of course does not come out in the Greek of John's Gospel but Jesus could have used "ego eimi" in His Aramaic speech and that would have made it plain whom Jesus was claiming to be.
It would be illegal and no doubt murder for them to stone Jesus for claiming to exist before Abraham did.
What do you mean by “Tell them ‘
I Am’ has sent you’…
It would not have read that way to the HEBREWS. It would have read: “Tell them ‘
YHWH’ has sent you”!
You have injected the MEANING of ‘YHWH’ and not the NAME itself. That is invalid scripting.
Suppose it were to be done the way you are suggesting… then Peter would be Christ since is it not written:
- ‘The Peter from which the children of Israel drank in the wilderness was Christ!’
- ‘You are Stone, and upon this Peter I build my church’…
But Peter, we just learnt, is Christ…. And Christ is Jesus… so Jesus must be Peter… or Peter must be Jesus…
Oh, and since Peter is Jesus, and Jesus is God, then Peter must be God…
And since Peter is God then he is also the Father… and he is also the Spirit of God…!
Oh what a lovely mess doth trinity make
When the true gospel it doth forsake
‘Hear, o Israel, your only God is me’
But trinity says, ‘Nay, they are three!’
And one of these is God in image
To trinity this doth much damage
since God’s truth is immutable
But this mix makes god incomprehensible
‘He became man’, says the Catholic trinity
But surely this breaks a tri-way unity?
‘Oh no!’, the fallacy squeals
‘He remained God’, was their appeal
Hurummm…! Doesn’t Phil 2 say his godship he emptied
And even by the Devil was tempted?
But God cannot be tempted at all
for certainly all truth would fall
‘I was sent by the Father: in servancy’
‘He taught me to do; He taught me to say’
‘And I’ll be going to him one joyful day’
He said he is one with the Father
(This makes two as maths would gather)
‘On the cross I died, my spirit was given
God raised my up and to Heaven I was risen.
I sat down next to him: My Father and God
to rule for a period with Sceptre and Rod
to hold kings and princes under my feet
Till all evil is subdued, to make the defeat
Then I judge the risen reconstructed
The good to lasting life - the wicked destructed
Praise and glory, merriment and myrrh
When I take my seat: The throne of David over the earth
But if I’m ruler over earth, who is over Heaven?
Hmmm… better recheck check that spiritual Leaven
