When did God tell the Israelites that He was three persons?

[Brian2]

What do you mean by “Tell them ‘I Am’ has sent you’…

It would not have read that way to the HEBREWS. It would have read: “Tell them ‘YHWH’ has sent you”!

You have injected the MEANING of ‘YHWH’ and not the NAME itself. That is invalid scripting.

Suppose it were to be done the way you are suggesting… then Peter would be Christ since is it not written:

• ‘The Peter from which the children of Israel drank in the wilderness was Christ!’
• ‘You are Stone, and upon this Peter I build my church’…

But Peter, we just learnt, is Christ…. And Christ is Jesus… so Jesus must be Peter… or Peter must be Jesus…

Oh, and since Peter is Jesus, and Jesus is God, then Peter must be God…

And since Peter is God then he is also the Father… and he is also the Spirit of God…!

All translations use the meaning and not the name YHWH. Even the Jewish translation does that with Ex 3:14.
The Septuagint also does it and uses the term "I am" has sent you.

Oh what a lovely mess doth trinity make
When the true gospel it doth forsake
‘Hear, o Israel, your only God is me’
But trinity says, ‘Nay, they are three!’
And one of these is God in image
To trinity this doth much damage
since God’s truth is immutable
But this mix makes god incomprehensible
‘He became man’, says the Catholic trinity
But surely this breaks a tri-way unity?
‘Oh no!’, the fallacy squeals
‘He remained God’, was their appeal
Hurummm…! Doesn’t Phil 2 say his godship he emptied
And even by the Devil was tempted?
But God cannot be tempted at all
for certainly all truth would fall
‘I was sent by the Father: in servancy’
‘He taught me to do; He taught me to say’
‘And I’ll be going to him one joyful day’
He said he is one with the Father
(This makes two as maths would gather)
‘On the cross I died, my spirit was given
God raised my up and to Heaven I was risen.
I sat down next to him: My Father and God
to rule for a period with Sceptre and Rod
to hold kings and princes under my feet
Till all evil is subdued, to make the defeat
Then I judge the risen reconstructed
The good to lasting life - the wicked destructed
Praise and glory, merriment and myrrh
When I take my seat: The throne of David over the earth
But if I’m ruler over earth, who is over Heaven?
Hmmm… better recheck check that spiritual Leaven

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

Does "firstborn of all creation" mean that Jesus was the first one born of creation or does it mean that He is the preeminent one over all of creation?
When it says all things were created by Him and for Him, what does that mean?

 

[Brian2]

Yes… God calls himself in the singular…
At no time does God call himself in the plural.

The suggestion that ‘ONE’ means ‘Three’ is so ridiculous that it’s not surprising that you want to run away from any response.

There is no scripture suggestion that there is UNITY of THREE PERSONS AS ONE GOD anywhere in scriptures except a close mis-view where Jesus says that he and the Father are one: which is TWO and actually only means ‘United on purpose and thought’.

Trinity declares that this means that Jesus is calling himself Almighty GOD… really? How so?

Trinity defines almighty God as three persons. But ‘I and the Father’ only makes TWO persons. Moreover, it is a fact that the saying ONLY MEANS that Jesus agrees with the Father… it is not an expression of a UNITY TWO God.

But what about this supposed ‘third’ that trinity doesn’t speak of as a unity? The Spirit of God is OF GOD… what does that mean, Brian2.

Does ‘OF’ mean ‘IS’?

And yet the Spirit of God is shown to be God in the scriptures.

Does ‘the Son of the Father’ mean that the Son IS the Father?

Even where trinity says Jesus is EQUAL to God… Does ‘EQUAL TO’ mean ‘IS’? Indeed, if it did then where is the need to say equal?

If x = y and y is changed, does still x remain equal to y?

But you will still continue to say that Jesus doesn’t change … really?

The Son is not the Father.
The scriptures tell us that Jesus does not and has not changed. (see Heb 1:10, Heb 13:8)

And PERSON… is GOD A PERSON?

God is what He shows Himself to be.
What is a person?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

All translations use the meaning and not the name YHWH. Even the Jewish translation does that with Ex 3:14.
The Septuagint also does it and uses the term "I am" has sent you.

He is correct that yad hey vav hey (YHWH) does not mean "I am." The Hebrew phrase for I am that I am is " אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה‎‎ ('ehye 'ăšer 'ehye)

 

[Brian2]

He is correct that yad hey vav hey (YHWH) does not mean "I am." The Hebrew phrase for I am that I am is " אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה‎‎ ('ehye 'ăšer 'ehye)

Yes I noticed a Jewish translation which said :
Ex 3:14God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"
I found another which said:
Ex 3:14 And G-d said unto Moses: 'I AM THAT I AM'; and He said: 'Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: I AM hath sent me unto you.'
But the latter was from the Jewish Virtual Library which I have been told by a Jew is not to be trusted.

Interestingly when I look at my Theological Wordbook of the Old Testement it says the word is "haya"-- to be, become, exist, happen.
It says of Ex 3:14 that it means "I am that I am" and that the name probably means, "I am He who is" or "I am He who exists" and this reflects the Septuagint "Ego eimi ho ov".

 

[rosends]

Yes I noticed a Jewish translation which said :
Ex 3:14God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"
I found another which said:
Ex 3:14 And G-d said unto Moses: 'I AM THAT I AM'; and He said: 'Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: I AM hath sent me unto you.'
But the latter was from the Jewish Virtual Library which I have been told by a Jew is not to be trusted.

Interestingly when I look at my Theological Wordbook of the Old Testement it says the word is "haya"-- to be, become, exist, happen.
It says of Ex 3:14 that it means "I am that I am" and that the name probably means, "I am He who is" or "I am He who exists" and this reflects the Septuagint "Ego eimi ho ov".

Hayah is the third person past tense of the To Be verb in Hebrew so it means "was".
The first person future tense is Eh'yeh.

 

[Brian2]

Hayah is the third person past tense of the To Be verb in Hebrew so it means "was".
The first person future tense is Eh'yeh.

And yet Ehyeh Asher Ehyer can be translated "I am who I am".

 

[rosends]

And yet Ehyeh Asher Ehyer can be translated "I am who I am".

It can also be translated "Hi mom."
Both would be equally wrong.

 

[Brian2]

It can also be translated "Hi mom."
Both would be equally wrong.

Not necessarily.
PsJon Exod. 1-6 (targum.info)
Exodus 3:14 | A website dedicated to the interpretation of Exodus 3:14
How should the Hebrew ‘ehyeh asher ehyeh’ in Exodus 3:14 be translated in English and what does it mean?
Exodus 3:14 | A website dedicated to the interpretation of Exodus 3:14
Exodus 3:14 | A website dedicated to the interpretation of Exodus 3:14
Exodus 3:14 | A website dedicated to the interpretation of Exodus 3:14
Exodus 3:14 | A website dedicated to the interpretation of Exodus 3:14

 

[River Sea]

just checking -- did you intend to write this? What would you make of Ex 20:2 in which God speaks of himself in the singular as God.

What about YHWH, Allah, Brahman, the same God, only one God?

Then all major religions all comprehend going to the same only one God?

Abraham for all of humanity right, that's what that was all about right?

Living word lives in all of us right?

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

YHWH, Allah, Brahman, the same God, only one God?

The Trinity is there second level manifestations of the One that has three NAMES God brahman allah. The hindu Trinity is known as shiva vishnu brahma.

 

[rosends]

Not necessarily.
PsJon Exod. 1-6 (targum.info)
Exodus 3:14 | A website dedicated to the interpretation of Exodus 3:14
How should the Hebrew ‘ehyeh asher ehyeh’ in Exodus 3:14 be translated in English and what does it mean?
Exodus 3:14 | A website dedicated to the interpretation of Exodus 3:14
Exodus 3:14 | A website dedicated to the interpretation of Exodus 3:14
Exodus 3:14 | A website dedicated to the interpretation of Exodus 3:14
Exodus 3:14 | A website dedicated to the interpretation of Exodus 3:14

That site admits that early translations into Greek stuck with "I will be" in order to stay more true to the Hebrew. The site is dedicated to understanding an interpretation, not a translation. The Hebrew word is a pretty simple one -- eh'yeh is the first person future tense of "to be". That the idiom can be understood to be a name (also a purpose of the website) is not a problem, but then translating it (one does not translate proper names) is silly. Check the Onkelos' Aramaic and compare it to the T"Y and the Yerushalmi. The first doesn't translate it at all, treating it like a name, the other interpret it to refer to the past, present and future.

But if you want to translate it, "I will be" is the way to go. Basic Hebrew.

 

[rosends]

What about YHWH, Allah, Brahman, the same God, only one God?

Then all major religions all comprehend going to the same only one God?

Abraham for all of humanity right, that's what that was all about right?

Living word lives in all of us right?

what does that have to do with the post I responded to?

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

But if you want to translate it, "I will be" is the way to go. Basic Hebrew.

Please explain how you justify the change from present "am" to future "will."

 

[rosends]

Please explain how you justify the change from present "am" to future "will."

The Hebrew verb is in the form of a future tense verb. There is no justification for NOT having it in the future tense. If you ask any speaker of Hebrew the tense of the word he or she will confirm that it is in the future tense. As I said, basic Hebrew. Should I pull out verb conjugation charts?
להיות - to be - Hebrew conjugation tables | PDF | Language Mechanics | Linguistics

 

[River Sea]

What would you make of Ex 20:2 in which God speaks of himself in the singular as God.

I'll continue to articulate only one God. Due to you asked me

what does that have to do with the post I responded to?

So I'll continue...
I understand there's more than one religion, and all these religions think they have their own God, but how realistic is this? However, I understand that there is only one God, and this God is the same. So in reference to Judaism, God is the same God in Hinduism, Christianity, and Islam because there's only one God, right?

So, when did God reveal to the Israelites that He was three people? How would this apply to other religions since there is only one God? Is it because Abraham gave himself for the sake of all humanity? Isn't that what it was all about? That's what the letter H in Abraham is all about, right? Or what are people compare to God, are all people God too? What is trinity or is there no trinity, but if so how do people get along when some have trinity while others don't have trinity, and is there any other numbers besides trinity, what would happen if someone found more then trinity, is that possible or is it no trinity, what causes trinity when there's only one God?

The Trinity is there second level manifestations of the One that has three NAMES God brahman allah. The hindu Trinity is known as shiva vishnu brahma.

Bharat: Did Abraham, for all humanity, in the past, present, or future, cause the Hindu Trinity known as Shiva, Vishnu, or Brahma to in any way communicate to many like how YHWH did with Moses and others with Moses? Yet many around Moses only wanted Moses to continue to communicate with YHWH. Was there ever a time when many people only wanted one person to communicate with Shiva, Vishnu, or Brahma, and has this ever had any relation with Abraham for all of humanity at any time, including the past, present, and future in relation to Abraham?

Or did Abraham have no ties to the Hindu Trinity, and if so, why?

How do Shiva, Vishnu, and Brahma comprehend rivers and land? Did any of them ever go fishing like Jesus did? I heard Jesus tell his disciples not to worry because there are plenty of fish on the other side of the boat; did Shiva, Vishnu, and Brahma ever catch any fish or know where all the fish are?

When researching trinity, how does this apply to other religions?

How is there trinity when there's only one God, yet people are God too, and there's a lot of people and there's only one God. We're all one only one - what is one when there's other numbers, is this spiritual math?

 

[rosends]

So in reference to Judaism, God is the same God in Hinduism, Christianity, and Islam because there's only one God, right?

The way I learned it and that makes sense in terms of explaining is that

the God character is the same in Judaism and Christianity but not in Islam
the God idea is the same in Judaism and Islam but not in Christianity

So, when did God reveal to the Israelites that He was three people?

He didn't.

 

[Muffled]

Jesus paid for the sin of man, more than three persons.

Are you claiming Jesus's cross did not pay for man's sin? I am concerned.

I believe he is still laboring under the false concept that God is three persons instead of God being in three persons.

 

[Muffled]

I think I'm hearing you say that hundreds of millions to billions of people, who say they love God and know the truth that He is a triunity, are all children of Satan.

I've heard cult members like the JWs claim that only they have truth in doctrine. Those who number the Christian God as one or two persons only is an even smaller group.

I love Jesus, I know truth, He is Lord, God, King, Savior. I keep asking you if He is Savior and whether He died and rose for sin. BIBLICALLY, unless you believe Jesus is Savior, you are what you are accusing me of. I'm a little worried about your soul--biblically speaking.

I believe there is no such thing as a Christian God; there is only one God.

 

[Muffled]

The way I learned it and that makes sense in terms of explaining is that

the God character is the same in Judaism and Christianity but not in Islam
the God idea is the same in Judaism and Islam but not in Christianity



He didn't.

I believe the chracter of God is the same in Islam and the concepts of God are pretty much the same in Islam as well.

 

[rosends]

I believe the chracter of God is the same in Islam and the concepts of God are pretty much the same in Islam as well.

The God character in Judaism did different things (contradictory to the narrative describing the actions of the God character in Islam. Even though the underlying ideas are the same, no one character can do two contradictory things, so the characters must be distinct.