When does theory become fact?

[Desert Snake]

When does your theory become fact/

-When a group of 'prominent' people espouse your theory/belief
-When certain regional 'academia' teaches your theory/belief
-When you have 'figured out' that the most reliable answer is the one coming from someone you respect.

 

[Nietzsche]

Technically speaking it doesn't. Theory is the highest degree of certainty you can give something in science. People seem to conflate "hypothesis" with "theory". Hypothesis is what you start with, theory is what you find out from that hypothesis. It is then further refined by as many minds as possible. It's always possible to further refine it, with debate going in within the field regarding specifications. But that does not mean it is not understood. It just means it is not 100% understood. But nothing is. At all. We know more about evolution than we do gravity. Evolution at least works on every level we've observed. Gravity kinda' peters out past a threshold.

 

[Twilight Hue]

When does your theory become fact/

-When a group of 'prominent' people espouse your theory/belief
-When certain regional 'academia' teaches your theory/belief
-When you have 'figured out' that the most reliable answer is the one coming from someone you respect.

Theory in science is already based on established fact. It just means it's not completely understood requiring further study and testing.

 

[Skwim]

Technically speaking it doesn't. Theory is the highest degree of certainty you can give something in science. People seem to conflate "hypothesis" with "theory". Hypothesis is what you start with, theory is what you find out from that hypothesis. It is then further refined by as many minds as possible. It's always possible to further refine it, with debate going in within the field regarding specifications. But that does not mean it is not understood. It just means it is not 100% understood. But nothing is. At all. We know more about evolution than we do gravity. Evolution at least works on every level we've observed. Gravity kinda' peters out past a threshold.

As Stephen Jay Gould once said

"In science, 'fact' can only mean 'confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent.' I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms."​

______________________________________________________

Technically speaking it doesn't. Theory is the highest degree of certainty you can give something in science.

Gotta disagree. Fact can easily be applied to gravity, as well as quite a few other phenomena.

Evolution at least works on every level we've observed. Gravity kinda' peters out past a threshold.

Not peters out, but looses strength. Gravity's range is infinite. There is no threshold of any kind.





​

 

[outhouse]

Theory in science is already based on established fact

Exactly.

Many observed facts determine a theory.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

When does your theory become fact

Never. Facts are by definition true (whether we are right about something being fact is altogether different). Theory is too nuanced to get into here as those who are not working in the sciences have typically been provided with some version of The Scientific Method which is really an approach from over a century ago and doesn't exist now. However, theories are not by definition true. Ergo, theories never become fact, but theories may be facts.

 

[Ultimatum]

Never. Facts are by definition true (whether we are right about something being fact is altogether different). Theory is too nuanced to get into here as those who are not working in the sciences have typically been provided with some version of The Scientific Method which is really an approach from over a century ago and doesn't exist now. However, theories are not by definition true. Ergo, theories never become fact, but theories may be facts.

"Theories never become fact, but theories may be facts."

A contradicting statement.
Of course theories become fact. The theory of Evolution is a fact. We don't know everything about it, but we know it as fact anyway.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

When does your theory become fact/

-When a group of 'prominent' people espouse your theory/belief
-When certain regional 'academia' teaches your theory/belief
-When you have 'figured out' that the most reliable answer is the one coming from someone you respect.

You have it backwards: theories don't become fact; facts become theories.

And this happens when you have enough facts to start making correct predictions about what new facts will be even before you uncover them.

 

[Desert Snake]

Technically speaking it doesn't. Theory is the highest degree of certainty you can give something in science. People seem to conflate "hypothesis" with "theory". Hypothesis is what you start with, theory is what you find out from that hypothesis. It is then further refined by as many minds as possible. It's always possible to further refine it, with debate going in within the field regarding specifications. But that does not mean it is not understood. It just means it is not 100% understood. But nothing is. At all. We know more about evolution than we do gravity. Evolution at least works on every level we've observed. Gravity kinda' peters out past a threshold.

There was a thread. What is the common ancestor of cats. I answered 'dinosaur -cat', it's a joke, I was referring to the proto-mammals. Yet that point was argued. Only a couple of people gave reasonable answers to the OP question. Anyways, my point is, you are very forgiving of your own beliefs, you think they are set, 'observed at every level', ok, never mind the variables. Btw gravity is a fact.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

"Theories never become fact, but theories may be facts."

A contradicting statement.

No, although it might seem to be. After all, contradiction has to do with logic and all, and given your comment I assume you've not studied it (before I get yet ANOTHER response about this that ends up with somebody who hasn't a clue about logic mistake the colloquial term for the field, just do a bit of research).

In logic ("real" logic), we distinguish between logical equivalence and implication. Were theories ever facts, then they could not ever BECOME facts. This would be nonsensical. Nothing becomes true because we suddenly believe the contrary no more. Unless of course you believe truth to be so relative as to be definedc by our state of knowledge.

Of course theories become fact.

Glad to hear it. So at one time evolutionary theory wasn't fact. And didn't become fact until our theories. What idiocy

 

[Ultimatum]

No, although it might seem to be. After all, contradiction has to do with logic and all, and given your comment I assume you've not studied it (before I get yet ANOTHER response about this that ends up with somebody who hasn't a clue about logic mistake the colloquial term for the field, just do a bit of research).

In logic ("real" logic), we distinguish between logical equivalence and implication. Were theories ever facts, then they could not ever BECOME facts. This would be nonsensical. Nothing becomes true because we suddenly no more. Unless of course you believe truth to be so relative as to be definedc by our state of knowledge.


Glad to hear it. So at one time evolutionary theory wasn't fact. And didn't become fact until our theories. What idiocy

Indeed it wasn't fact. Any century before the 19th century didn't have knowledge of it. Therefore it hasn't always been a fact (what we define a fact as). Remember a fact (in science) is a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: therefore, because it was not known by experience or observation, it wasn't always 'fact'.
And most people did not accept ToE when Darwin first wrote about it: most dismissed it as idiocy.

And your statement:
theories never become fact, but theories may be facts.
is etymologically ridiculous, at least, depending on your view. (This is the problem here)

You cannot expect one to gather all the possibilities of a statement and expect them to read it as you understand it. To then proceed to dismiss one claiming 'idiocy' is not reasonable.

Sure, the ToE has always been 'fact' (your definition and way of writing the statement), but it has not always been 'fact' (this why my understanding and way of interpreting the statement)

 

[Nietzsche]

There was a thread. What is the common ancestor of cats. I answered 'dinosaur -cat', it's a joke, I was referring to the proto-mammals. Yet that point was argued. Only a couple of people gave reasonable answers to the OP question. Anyways, my point is, you are very forgiving of your own beliefs, you think they are set, 'observed at every level', ok, never mind the variables. Btw gravity is a fact.

I never said gravity didn't exist. I said our understanding of gravity was less than our understanding of evolution, because once you reach a certain threshold of size, it simply stops applying to particles. Evolution however works on every form of life that reproduces.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

Indeed it wasn't fact.

Great, and utterly irrelevant. If evolution is wrong, the created 6,000 years ago, and education a carcinogen, then this has absolutely NO POSSIBLE RELEVANCE. Again, that which is fact is true by definition. Theories can absolutely be fact, they simply can't "become" fact.

 

[Midnight Rain]

When does your theory become fact/

-When a group of 'prominent' people espouse your theory/belief
-When certain regional 'academia' teaches your theory/belief
-When you have 'figured out' that the most reliable answer is the one coming from someone you respect.

When the accumulated evidence is so profoundly evident that no one in an unbiased rational mind could deny its credibility.

 

[Sapiens]

When does your theory become fact/

-When a group of 'prominent' people espouse your theory/belief
-When certain regional 'academia' teaches your theory/belief
-When you have 'figured out' that the most reliable answer is the one coming from someone you respect.

No, theory approaches fact as human knowledge approaches utterly complete knowledge, that's the calculus of it ... it never happens.

 

[Parsimony]

When does your theory become fact/

It doesn't.

-When a group of 'prominent' people espouse your theory/belief
-When certain regional 'academia' teaches your theory/belief
-When you have 'figured out' that the most reliable answer is the one coming from someone you respect.

None of the above.

 

[Midnight Rain]

There has been a lot of confusion in this thread that is based around what we mean when we say "fact" and "theory".

The theory of evolution is regarded as scientific fact. That is true. When we look at a more strict definition of "fact" which means unequivocally true with no room for error then it is doubtful that we have any "knowledge" (scientific or otherwise) that can fit into such a category. And the same with "theory" and "theory". No scientific theory will ever be 100% perfect but we can reach a certain point in which the evidence for a particular theory is undeniable and at least some version of that theory is accepted to be true to the point that it is no longer debated. Again we can use evolution. We learn more and more about evolution that increases our knowledge on the subject. Change over time was its original premise but then we obtained information about DNA, alleles, epigenetics, genetic drift, ect. This didn't change the fundamental premise of the theory but better explained the process. What we know now isn't perfect in its understanding so there is some slight room for error and expansion but the basic premise of change over time will continue to be regarded as fact for pragmatic purposes if nothing else.

 

[Ultimatum]

Great, and utterly irrelevant. If evolution is wrong, the created 6,000 years ago, and education a carcinogen, then this has absolutely NO POSSIBLE RELEVANCE. Again, that which is fact is true by definition. Theories can absolutely be fact, they simply can't "become" fact.

The 'fact' of the matter is this:

In my eyes, something only becomes 'fact' if it is well-studied, understood, truthful, and available for world-wide reception that cannot be refuted. Let's say there is a guy in America that believes there is something half the size of the Higgs boson. .Fast-forward 5 years and a scientist makes this very discovery- a particle half the size of the boson. This has then become a fact: that there is something half the size of this particle.
It hadn't become fact UNTIL it had been studies, confirmed, published, and understood.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Never.

 

[LuisDantas]

When does your theory become fact/

-When a group of 'prominent' people espouse your theory/belief
-When certain regional 'academia' teaches your theory/belief
-When you have 'figured out' that the most reliable answer is the one coming from someone you respect.

Theories only become facts when they are acknowledged outside the scope of science. Science does not decree fact.

For that matter, in scientific usage "theory" is a far stronger word than in popular usage, where it is treated as if it meant "hypothesis".

Some Creationists seem to believe that in science you may create "theories" basically out of a whim and have them become something more (fact?) once they earn enough of some form of prestige. That is really not at all correct.

Instead, science uses hypothesis that need verification by way of falseability tests. That usually means using the hypothesis to predict the results of experiments, then actually doing those experiments, often and by different, unconnected people if at all possible. It is not possible for an explanation to be a scientific theory without some degree of support from falseability tests, AFAIK.

If I am not mistaken, a theory that somehow turns up at some point to fail those tests must then be "demoted" to a hypothesis. Not sure how often that happens, if at all.

Your options are all variations of an appeal to authority, and therefore none quite serves for science, although they could be useful as reference points for a start.