When is Death?

[The Hammer]

Truth is, we still aren't really sure.

When is dead really dead? Study on pig brains reinforces that death is a vast gray area

"Death is a process, and not a moment in time. It is the human desire to put things in categories of black and white, and to have definitions that let us operate in daily life. Death – this is becoming more and more clear – is a large gray zone, and we will have to expect that this gray zone grows as science progresses."

 

[Suave]

Truth is, we still aren't really sure.

When is dead really dead? Study on pig brains reinforces that death is a vast gray area

"Death is a process, and not a moment in time. It is the human desire to put things in categories of black and white, and to have definitions that let us operate in daily life. Death – this is becoming more and more clear – is a large gray zone, and we will have to expect that this gray zone grows as science progresses."

I suppose if the ionic currents were to cease flowing across somebody's brain's neurons, then he/she very well might be dead,

 

[AlexanderG]

That's why "near death" experiences are so uncompelling. Like, your brain had abnormal levels of oxygen and chemicals, and you experienced something strange? No kidding. It's exactly what a physical model of consciousness would predict, just like DMT and other psychedelic drugs can alter brain chemistry and induce experiences some people describe as "mystical."

 

[The Hammer]

That's why "near death" experiences are so uncompelling. Like, your brain had abnormal levels of oxygen and chemicals, and you experienced something strange? No kidding. It's exactly what a physical model of consciousness would predict, just like DMT and other psychedelic drugs can alter brain chemistry and induce experiences some people describe as "mystical."

There is more to an NDE/Mystical Experience than hallucinating, although that could be said to be a part of it.

 

[Suave]

That's why "near death" experiences are so uncompelling. Like, your brain had abnormal levels of oxygen and chemicals, and you experienced something strange? No kidding. It's exactly what a physical model of consciousness would predict, just like DMT and other psychedelic drugs can alter brain chemistry and induce experiences some people describe as "mystical."

I had an out of body experience. My OOBE happened when I was 13 years old. It happened immediately after I had a fainting spell from hyperventilating and holding my breath in such a way that I forced myself to pass out. When I woke up from this fainting spell, I was floating outside and above my body. While I was floating outside and above my body, everything in the room started spinning around me and then became brightly illuminated with a blinding white light which blinded me until I descended back into my body.

 

[wellwisher]

Truth is, we still aren't really sure.

When is dead really dead? Study on pig brains reinforces that death is a vast gray area

"Death is a process, and not a moment in time. It is the human desire to put things in categories of black and white, and to have definitions that let us operate in daily life. Death – this is becoming more and more clear – is a large gray zone, and we will have to expect that this gray zone grows as science progresses."

The opposite of death is life. If we know about death starts then we also know about when life begins, by symmetry.

When the unborn is killed by abortion and is pronounced dead, then it had to be alive first, since dead cannot become dead, again. Dead is a singular terminal state.

 

[PureX]

That's why "near death" experiences are so uncompelling. Like, your brain had abnormal levels of oxygen and chemicals, and you experienced something strange? No kidding. It's exactly what a physical model of consciousness would predict, just like DMT and other psychedelic drugs can alter brain chemistry and induce experiences some people describe as "mystical."

And perhaps those physical phenomena open the doorway for us to a whole new realm of existential energy that we have otherwise no knowledge of. So that the energy that was animating our physical bodies passes through it and into a new realm of 'being'. Who knows? I think we'd be fools to pretend that our weak knowledge of physicality can accurately predict the limits of existence. I know we LOVE to pretend we have that capability, but in all honesty, it's very unlikely that we do. The amount of mystery before us is far greater than the amount of knowledge we think we possess to dispel it.

 

[epronovost]

The opposite of death is life. If we know about death starts then we also know about when life begins, by symmetry.

When the unborn is killed by abortion and is pronounced dead, then it had to be alive first, since dead cannot become dead, again. Dead is a singular terminal state.

Nobody denied the fact that fetus, cells or zygotes were alive though. In fact spermatozoids and ovules are also alive.

 

[AlexanderG]

And perhaps those physical phenomena open the doorway for us to a whole new realm of existential energy that we have otherwise no knowledge of. So that the energy that was animating our physical bodies passes through it and into a new realm of 'being'. Who knows? I think we'd be fools to pretend that our weak knowledge of physicality can accurately predict the limits of existence. I know we LOVE to pretend we have that capability, but in all honesty, it's very unlikely that we do. The amount of mystery before us is far greater than the amount of knowledge we think we possess to dispel it.

And perhaps trickster pixies put near death experiences in our mind for fun. And perhaps we start to log out of the matrix as our brain is dying, causing those experiences. And perhaps magic conscious energy starts to transcend our realm. Who knows? Since there is no evidence for any of these possibilities, nor for any of the other infinite possibilities we can imagine, there is no good reason to believe any one possibility more than any other. Since it's currently a mystery, and all the evidence we do have is that consciousness is a physical process in the brain, we should provisionally conclude consciousness is physical but acknowledge that there is much we still don't know.

 

[Audie]

Truth is, we still aren't really sure.

When is dead really dead? Study on pig brains reinforces that death is a vast gray area

"Death is a process, and not a moment in time. It is the human desire to put things in categories of black and white, and to have definitions that let us operate in daily life. Death – this is becoming more and more clear – is a large gray zone, and we will have to expect that this gray zone grows as science progresses."

Same for the boundary between living and noniving in origin of life questions

 

[Twilight Hue]

That's why "near death" experiences are so uncompelling. Like, your brain had abnormal levels of oxygen and chemicals, and you experienced something strange? No kidding. It's exactly what a physical model of consciousness would predict, just like DMT and other psychedelic drugs can alter brain chemistry and induce experiences some people describe as "mystical."

That's my perspective as well.

At the same time however, I recall how Alan Watts would refer to nature as being 'wiggly' essentially nothing stands still.

Givin the entirety of our being is comprised of that 'wigglyness' I view birth and death as a continuation rather than a true beginning and ending like an ocean wave cresting and falling yet remains all ocean.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Truth is, we still aren't really sure
"Death is a process, and not a moment in time. It is the human desire to put things in categories of black and white, and to have definitions that let us operate in daily life. Death – this is becoming more and more clear – is a large gray zone, and we will have to expect that this gray zone grows as science progresses."

Jesus had a friend who was dead for four days, so to me definitely that friend was absolutely dead.
If I remember right, after death (No breathing) that hair and nails can still grow a little for a short time.
However, I would think No more cell activity at day four of death.
By Jesus resurrecting a 4-day dead person then No one could say that person could somehow still have life within.

 

[blü 2]

Truth is, we still aren't really sure.

When is dead really dead? Study on pig brains reinforces that death is a vast gray area

"Death is a process, and not a moment in time. It is the human desire to put things in categories of black and white, and to have definitions that let us operate in daily life. Death – this is becoming more and more clear – is a large gray zone, and we will have to expect that this gray zone grows as science progresses."

I'd say we're dead at the moment the life-supporting systems of our body irreversibly fail.

This is plain in the great majority of cases, but there have always been exceptions, where the human judgment 'irreversible' has been wrong. I guess you'd say, We're workin' on it.

 

[Stevicus]

Truth is, we still aren't really sure.

When is dead really dead? Study on pig brains reinforces that death is a vast gray area

"Death is a process, and not a moment in time. It is the human desire to put things in categories of black and white, and to have definitions that let us operate in daily life. Death – this is becoming more and more clear – is a large gray zone, and we will have to expect that this gray zone grows as science progresses."

This one part of the article touched upon something I've pondered before:

Can a head still be alive after decapitation?
Even worse to imagine: Could the decapitated head still be conscious for a bit? Perhaps yes.

After the heart stops beating, we consider that someone has died. But, after the heartbeat stops, we also know that sometimes, the heartbeat can come back by itself. This is called autoresuscitation. In this case, someone that appeared dead for a few minutes may not have actually died.

But the situation is different for the brain than for the heart. When there is a lack of blood flow in the absence of a heart that pumps it, or when there is intrinsic brain injury and blood cannot get in, the situation is tricky. Brains are very sensitive to being deprived of oxygen and energy supply, and various degrees of brain injury occur. Depending on how long the energy fuel to the brain is absent, brain function can remain alive to various degrees and be rekindled to a degree we neuroscientists do not yet fully know. We know that brain function is seriously disturbed, with variable permanence of function loss depending on how long the brain has not had energy.

The end result of how functional such a damaged brain will come out is one of the biggest challenges we have to learn more about.

After an injury, a whole sequence of consecutive processes occurs that is called secondary brain injury and is triggered by the insult to the brain in the first place. And these processes often cause tremendous damage, and sometimes more than the actual first injury.

For example, a hard blow to the head can result in a bruise or bleeding in the brain, which can be removed by surgery in certain cases. Despite the bleeding being stopped or removed, however, the surrounding brain will sometimes start swelling and bruising even more over the subsequent days, like a big bruise on the thigh goes through stages and color changes. There is not yet a preventive therapy for this, but we know that some factors can make this process worse, such as blood pressure that is too low or lack of oxygen to the brain during the healing phase.

Imagine a broken bone: The cast is just the first step, and there is swelling, pain and weakness for weeks to come. In the brain, the process is more granular. And in neuroscience, we are just now beginning to understand this cascade of events.

The idea of having one's brain revived after being decapitated and kept alive artificially sounds like it would be quite the hellish experience.

 

[The Hammer]

This one part of the article touched upon something I've pondered before:



The idea of having one's brain revived after being decapitated and kept alive artificially sounds like it would be quite the hellish experience.

Yeah, I've pondered it as well.

But think of the possibilities:

 

[Aupmanyav]

When is dead really dead? Study on pig brains reinforces that death is a vast gray area.
"Death is a process, and not a moment in time. It is the human desire to put things in categories of black and white, and to have definitions that let us operate in daily life. Death – this is becoming more and more clear – is a large gray zone, and we will have to expect that this gray zone grows as science progresses."

True.
I guess only the most vital functions can be revived, memory for example. Even sensory functions will die because there will be no input. What will die first are the motor functions.

 

[rational experiences]

The fact you study it proves how evil your thoughts are.

 

[Viker]

Death is when we stop realizing we are alive. People can always rot without dying.