When New Age goes too far?

[Jainarayan]

This is the sort of thing that gets Hindus hocked off, and justifiably so. From a question at a Pagan site. The question is about worshiping Ganesha and Guanyin:

"As for Ganesh ... a remover of obstacles, considered to be the most intelligent of the gods, sometimes said to be an avatar of Vishnu."



I responded that UPG (Unverified/Unsubstantiated Personal Gnosis) is one thing, but I think this clearly falls under the heading of MUS... Made Up [Digestive Waste].

This, to me, is not unlike Wiccans who use Shiva/Shakti as their God and Goddess, without really knowing anything about Hindu beliefs, iconography, the attributes of the gods, and so on. Or the people who have a statue of Budai (the Laughing Buddha) or Ganesha for good luck. I think this sort of thing is appropriation of the highest order.

Am I being overly sensitive?

Btw, this rant is from the guy who has a small "strength shrine" for Thor and Hanuman.

 

[Vinayaka]

Am I being overly sensitive?

In my experience, it really depends on the person you're talking to. Some are humble, others are know-it-alls. Last week we drove down to a really large rock store, with loads of crystals, but especially ones (narmada lingams) that I like to 'visit'. The very large one (at lest 4 feet high, maybe 5) got sold, and since I was partly going there to show it to my friend. So I get to chatting it up with the clerk, ans soon enough, via the narmada lingam questions, she found out we were all Hindu. So she got all humble and asked, 'Just how do you pronounce 'Ganesha'? Then later it was, 'How about 'rudraksha'? (They had some very poor quality beads.) She seemed definitively grateful for my answers.

So just to balance your post some, there are other more humble sincere types out there as well.

 

[Jainarayan]

In my experience, it really depends on the person you're talking to. Some are humble, others are know-it-alls. ...

So just to balance your post some, there are other more humble sincere types out there as well.

I definitely agree. I've gotten very sincere questions and some "I didn't know that!" comments. Unfortunately those I encounter on internet sites are largely in the IKE category (I Know Everything) category, especially when they use the phrase "work with" when referring to a deity. What kind of work? How do you "work with" a god or goddess? That implies, to me, that there is some mutual cooperation... that I have something to offer the deity to make their job as a deity easier. Is it working together baking cookies for the heavenly bake sale? Souls presentations? Work together on deity council? Meeting for drinks or coffee after worship? No one who says it ever gives a coherent answer. I have yet to hear a Hindu say they "work with" a god or goddess.

I know... I'm so intolerant and snarky lately.

 

[Terese]

I do find anything New Agers touch they water down, Hinduism included. Misinformation tends to be rife among those circles. Of course, all questions are welcome

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. especially when they use the phrase "work with" when referring to a deity. What kind of work? How do you "work with" a god or goddess? That implies, to me, that there is some mutual cooperation ..

I know... I'm so intolerant and snarky lately.

Don't be. But the answer is dharma. By following dharma, we make the job of the deity easier. He/she does not have to rush to this world to put the things right.

 

[Jainarayan]

Don't be. But the answer is dharma. By following dharma, we make the job of the deity easier. He/she does not have to rush to this world to put the things right.

Good point! Me likes that explanation.

 

[Vinayaka]

There are many lifetimes to learn. Everybody starts somewhere, and I'm sure that if not in this lifetime, then some previous one, I was an arrogant know-it-all too. Some of it is just enthusiasm at the newfound ideas.

 

[SomeRandom]

Hindus have interpretations of God. Sure this is steeped in thousands of years of traditions and scripture. But we do not have a monopoly on these deities. There's no copyright out on them. This is arrogance. Presuming we "own" them.

Sure correct misinformation when you see it.
Know it all new agers are annoying, I agree.
But it's not like the power of the divine diminishes just because some new age person has a Ganesh statue randomly on their desk. They too have to find their own path, their own way of reaching out to God. Chill, Ganesh needs no defending. If they were offering him meat then I'd say step in quickly. But ehh. Your enthusiasm to defend against what you see as mishandling of Hindu deities is commendable. But I say take a breath.

I'm not a fan of "cultural appropriation" as a concept. Everyone has and still appropriates something from somewhere. That's how multiculturalism works. Discouraging this only builds more walls.

I dunno my general apathy remains largely unresponsive to such instances. I find them mildly amusing, especially if I get to correct a know it all.

 

[Vinayaka]

Sure correct misinformation when you see it.

I've seen Hindus 'correcting' other Hindus based on ethnocentric understandings by sect or geography. I find it rather humorous.

 

[SomeRandom]

I've seen Hindus 'correcting' other Hindus based on ethnocentric understandings by sect or geography. I find it rather humorous.

Lol indeed. A bit of "lost in translation" as it were.
Sometimes the need to be right can lead to trouble lol

 

[Jainarayan]

I understand that the gods can fend for themselves and probably laugh. I think it annoys me particularly because there are so many misconceptions about Hindus and Hinduism as it is, without adding downright misinformation.

The person later responded to the effect “thanks for correcting me, I didn’t know”. I think it was good it was a public post, so anyone else who read the thread might not go around with misinformation.

 

[SomeRandom]

I understand that the gods can fend for themselves and probably laugh. I think it annoys me particularly because there are so many misconceptions about Hindus and Hinduism as it is, without adding downright misinformation.

The person later responded to the effect “thanks for correcting me, I didn’t know”. I think it was good it was a public post, so anyone else who read the thread might not go around with misinformation.

Perhaps I am used to it. Being seen as an exotic "foreigner" in my own country. In both groups, the Goras and the Hindus. Having labels and misinformation around me and my family all my life. Usually not out of malice but just ignorance. We correct such misinformation have a laugh together and eat together as kin.(Usually at an aunty's insistence.)
But new agers aren't Hindu or Buddhist or whoever. They're more like Neo Dharmics anyway. So I don't mind if they see a deity in a different way. That is between them and God

 

[Aupmanyav]

Fusion dance, it is neither Western nor Indian. Fusion music. Fusion religiosity. But it looses its original flavor, like a water color painting splashed with water again. Some people would say even then it is art.

 

[Viraja]

Interesting thread.

Some scholars think Ganesha and Hanuman to be same... when I browsed the net, I found this picture...

JAI GANESHA! (of course the link does not say Ganesha is Vishnu though).

 

[Viraja]

I always used to wonder how was it possible to arrive at the picture/depiction of so many deities in the first place... up to the minutest detail of how many arms they have and each weapon they carry!

 

[Aupmanyav]

Great, Hindus have not lost their imagination. Are not they both sons of Lord Shiva (Manasa Putra or something)?

 

[Viraja]

Yes Aup ji, they are, as much as it is stated everywhere...

 

[Sirona]

I read a bit of New Age and Wicca material. On the surface, it seemed very interesting and they seem to have lofty goals but when going into depths I found that there is a lot of selfishness and exploiting in it. Exploiting others, exploiting the gods. "Working with gods" is a sort of magic, where you call up some "spiritual energies" and then practically tell the gods what to do for you. On Ebay you can buy "long distance initiations" from people who claim to send "divine energies" to you for a pay. Most are about Jesus but you can also find "initiations" into Hindu deities. Additionally, New Agers also have their own gods which they call "ascended masters". Almost every thinkable religious concept is milked for cash. So of course they have chakras and karma. Tolerance is a fine thing but I am not sure if New Age deserves some as it is derivative and seems ruled by the idea of "conselling" others by making them dependent, by making them believe that the "counselor" has magical powers.

 

[Vinayaka]

I read a bit of New Age and Wicca material. On the surface, it seemed very interesting and they seem to have lofty goals but when going into depths I found that there is a lot of selfishness and exploiting in it. Exploiting others, exploiting the gods. "Working with gods" is a sort of magic, where you call up some "spiritual energies" and then practically tell the gods what to do for you. On Ebay you can buy "long distance initiations" from people who claim to send "divine energies" to you for a pay. Most are about Jesus but you can also find "initiations" into Hindu deities. Additionally, New Agers also have their own gods which they call "ascended masters". Almost every thinkable religious concept is milked for cash. So of course they have chakras and karma. Tolerance is a fine thing but I am not sure if New Age deserves some as it is derivative and seems ruled by the idea of "conselling" others by making them dependent, by making them believe that the "counselor" has magical powers.

I don't think lavish lifestyles add much to credibility, given the supposed detachment to desire. But then we have that within Hinduism too with some 'Gurus'.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

This, to me, is not unlike Wiccans who use Shiva/Shakti as their God and Goddess, without really knowing anything about Hindu beliefs, iconography, the attributes of the gods, and so on.
Am I being overly sensitive?

No! The Wiccan Margot Adler once said that the oldest Wiccan tradition was stealing anything that couldn't run away fast enough.

Since they believe all gods are manifestations of one god (and all goddesses of one goddess) such a statement about Ganesha makes sense to them. Actually, how could some-one who takes a strongly advaita position object? But I find it infuriating.

Incidentally, don't confuse Wicca with New Age. The latter is not really about religion. It's also looked down on by many Wiccans, who tell jokes like "What's the difference between a course on meditation run by a New Age guru and one run by a Wiccan priestess? A couple of hundred dollars."