When Progressives Want Catholicism

[MysticTraveler]

The story of my own spiritual journey is a long and winding one, and I will spare you all the details, but in summary, I have continually found myself more and more drawn to Catholicism, Catholic theology, Catholic spirituality, and a devotion to the Blessed Mother. I'm planning to begin RCIA in October, but I'm worried because, while I'm with the Church on many issues (I'm passionate about justice, and many of my social justice heroes are Catholics), but there is of course those sticky issues regarding women and same-sex couples that I just cannot in good conscience stand down from, and which are so divisive in the church. To hear it from the more conservative Catholics, there'd be no point in me coming into the Catholic Church holding these views as I'd just be a heretic; at the same time there are many faithful progressive Catholics that share similar views as I do (but again, other parts of the church are making the same accusations of heresy at them, also). Is it possible for a socially progressive social justice activist who has been radicalized by the Gospels and the examples of people like St. Francis of Assisi and Dorothy Day to become a Catholic in the 21st Century?

 

[dsaly1969]

In my area, many of the progressive minded Catholics became Episcopalians. This of course depends on the flavor of the individual Episcopal parishes in your area as some are more "High Church" (Catholic tradition) than others (there is a range of practice in the Episcopal Church). The liturgy of the Book of Common Prayer is Catholic and many Episcopalians practice the Rosary, doing centering prayer, and use other aspects of Catholic theology and spirituality. The joke is that the Episcopal Church is "diet Catholic" (all the ritual but half the guilt).

However, others, like my in-laws, are progressive Catholics that have remained in the folds of Rome. This also depends on the nature of the parishes in your area and the priests who are there. My suggestion is to visit all of the parishes, both Roman Catholic and Episcopal, to see which one resonates better for you. For myself I went through RCIA in my 20's at a more progressive minded Catholic parish (my wife was raised up as a progressive Roman Catholic). We were later received into the Episcopal Church when we moved into an area where the Catholic parishes were just not a good fit for where my wife and I were spiritually. But most of our friends remain Catholics.

 

[Vouthon]

Dear Mystic

Thank you for your post!

I appreciate you coming on here. I share that same passion for social justice, admiration for St. Francis and the likes of Servant of God Dorothy Day. I also sympathise with and understand the dilemma facing your conscience. It is the same dilemma which other liberal Catholics face and which conservative Catholics likewise face when it comes to the church's social teaching, which generally does not sit well with right-wing libertarian values given its strong advocacy for the poor.

The Catholic Church is a unique institution politically, as a wiki article on the church in the US states:

The Catholic Church takes strong positions against abortion, which was partly legalized in 1973 by the Supreme Court, and same-sex marriage...The Church also condemns embryo-destroying research and in vitro fertilization as immoral. The Church is allied with conservative Protestant evangelicals on these issues. However, the Catholic Church throughout its history has taken special concern for all vulnerable groups. This has led to progressive alliances, as well, with the church championing causes such as a strong welfare state,[31] unionization,[32] immigration for those fleeing economic or political hardship, environmental stewardship,[33] and critical evaluation of modern warfare.[34] The Catholic Church's teachings, coming from the perspective of a global church, do not conform easily to the American political binary of "liberals" and "conservatives."

Well the good news is that in the USA, the majority of Catholics voted for Obama and the Democrats. So I hardly think that you are in the minority as far as the laity are concerned :yes:

The good news is that the church is still in the process, as Pope Francis said, of working out a true "theology of women" and understanding their place in the church. He noted:

The church without women would be like the apostolic college without Mary. The Madonna is more important than the apostles, and the church herself is feminine, the spouse of Christ and a mother…we don’t yet have a truly deep theology of women in the church

The previous pope, Benedict XVI also noted back in 2006:

“It is theologically and anthropologically important for woman to be at the center of Christianity. Through Mary, and the other holy women, the feminine element stands at the heart of the Christian religion.”

So I don't think that there is a problem on that front. The proper role of women, one of whom as Francis said the Virgin Mary is far more important than the Apostles and is indeed Queen of the Church, is still being discovered. There is of course the issue with women priests, nonetheless a female diaconate is certainly plausible on strictly theological grounds. Likewise increased power and representation for the laity in general, is something that we may see in the coming years.

First of all, I think that if your conscience - that gut feeling in your heart - is drawing you toward the Catholic Church, then you should certainly heed it. Remember that with RCIA you are at full liberty to drop out of it at any stage in the process. It gives people time for discernment to figure out for themselves if this is where they should be. You can walk away at any time. Therefore I think that RCIA would be good to go ahead with, if you truly feel called in that direction.

There are indeed minority groups of diehard conservatives who view liberal or left-wing Catholics with something bordering on strong distaste. The irony of course, is that if one wants to designate someone as a "cafeteria Catholic" then it swings both ways. For right-wingers like the ones I have mentioned, you would think the church was simply a lobby group for the pro-life movement, whilst these Catholics tend to reject the entirety of the church's social teaching. When Benedict XVI promulgated his social encyclical Caritas en Veritate in 2009, calling for "redistribution of wealth" and a global political authority to help manage the economy, as well as a reformed UN with "real teeth" the reaction from these Catholics was palpable.

As you know the tradition of the church is so much richer than simply a small portion of its controversial moral doctrines.

(continued...)

 

[Vouthon]

If you believe in the creed, in the dogmas of the Faith, have devotion to our Blessed Mother, identify with the culture, rituals and heritage of Catholicism then I personally would advise you not to be put off simply because of your views on women and gay marriage.

One is entitled to hold their own private opinions, so long as they don't try and claim that they represent the views of the magisterium.

We are not robots. Very few Catholics - if any - would be able to agree 100% with everything the church teaches without any doubts. That is not human nature.

Nevertheless if you attend mass on Sundays and holy days of obligation, partake of the sacraments and emphasise the elements of Catholicism that really click with you (Ie social justice, Marian devotion) then why does it matter, really, that you have issues with Holy Mother Church's teachings on women priests and gay marriage? So long as you don't try and get the church to change its stance on these issues, I wouldn't unduly worry.

Find like-minded Catholics and a parish that you are comfortable in. It is a universal church after all. Everyone should be welcome, so long as they believe in the essential dogmas.

The Jesuits are known for being the most liberal Catholic order. By this, I mean free-thinking. IMHO a Jesuit education in one of their schools is enviable.

They have always taught independent thought as one of their key principles.

From wiki:

Within the Roman Catholic Church, there has existed a sometimes tense relationship between Jesuits and the Vatican due to questioning of official Church teaching and papal directives, such as those on abortion,[58][59] birth control,[60][61][62][63] women deacons,[64] homosexuality, and liberation theology.[65][66] Usually this theological free thinking is academically oriented, being prevalent at the university level. From this standpoint, the function of this debate is less to challenge the magisterium than illustrate the church's ability to compromise in a pluralist society based on shared values which do not always align with religious teachings.[67] The previous two Popes have appointed Jesuits to powerful positions in the Church; John Paul II appointed Roberto Tucci, S.J., to the College of Cardinals, after serving as the chief organizer of papal trips and public events. Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI have appointed 10 Jesuit Cardinals to notable jobs. Benedict XVI appointed Jesuits to notable positions in his curia, such as Archbishop Luis Ladaria Ferrer, S.J. as Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and Rev. Federico Lombardi, S.J., Vatican Press Secretary.[68] Pope Francis, elected in 2013, has become the first Jesuit Pope

As Benedict XVI once said:

"...Over the pope as the expression of the binding claim of ecclesiastical authority there still stands one's own conscience, which must be obeyed before all else, if necessary even against the requirement of ecclesiastical authority. The conscience of the individual confronts him with a supreme and ultimate tribunal which in the last resort is beyond the claim of external social groups, even of the official church. In all activity man is bound to follow his conscience… It follows he is not to be forced to act in a manner contrary to his conscience. Nor…to be restrained from acting in accordance with his conscience, especially in matters religious...”

- Pope Benedict XVI, Commentary on the Pastoral Constitution on the Church in the Modern World, in vol.5

 

[Vouthon]

In my area, many of the progressive minded Catholics became Episcopalians.

I think that, yes, Episcopalianism would also be something to consider, particularly a form of it which maintains much of the ritual and visuals of the Catholic Church.

"Old Catholicism" is also possible:

Old Catholic Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They are very much liberal, although obviously not in communion with the Bishop of Rome (having parted ways at Vatican I in the 1870s).

 

[dsaly1969]

In the United States, basically the Episcopal Church's Rite II liturgy is very close to the Novus Ordo version of the Mass. We also have Rite I for those who really like it old-school. Most Episcopal churches are broad church and would look like most Catholic parishes. We even have High Churches which tend to be even MORE formal than the majority of Roman Catholic parishes (except for those which have Tridentine Latin Mass).

 

[ZooGirl02]

I think perhaps that what you should do is you should go through RCIA and you should learn more about these issues that you are having trouble with. Learn about the Catholic perspective. Dig deep into it. You may find yourself agreeing with the Catholic Church's teaching on these issues.

 

[Shiranui117]

I wouldn't let politics of any sort keep you away from Catholicism. If you feel Catholicism is the true Faith, then that's all that should matter.

 

[Quiddity]

It really depends on what exactly you are standing firm on. Liberal Catholics, Progressive Catholics and anything like it have been losing ground and much of the quarreling is now among traditionalist vs. conservatives. Liberal/Progressive Catholics don't even engage in the intellectual think tank that is within Catholicism. If this discourages you, I apologize but that is the reality right now. Certain aspects of Liberalism/Progressiveness simply can't be meshed with Catholic dogma. That doesn't mean there is no left-wing within Catholicism, it's just not left-wing as most people imagine it to be. Jesuits can be argued to be on the left in the spectrum and yet you'd have to search hard to find one that is ok with gay marriage.

I really think you should dig deeper and make sure they are real disagreements and not just a freedom afforded within the Church.

 

[Quiddity]

I wouldn't let politics of any sort keep you away from Catholicism. If you feel Catholicism is the true Faith, then that's all that should matter.

Unless of course it happens to be an issue that is intertwined with politics and the Catholic faith. Abortion is both political and your position on it will affect your standing in the Church.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I understand that conflict, being that I am both transgender (transsexual, really) and not straight. But you shouldn't let that stop you from becoming Catholic or considering it. The basis of the faith is Jesus Christ, not modern social issues. I view the Church as capable of evolving on social issues such as women's stance in the Church and LGBT issues. There are lay people and clergy who are more open-minded about such things and some that aren't. Do some research on the parishes in your area and get to know the clergy. I think you might find that they're not all raving far-right conservatives. But you may come across some that don't understand those things but don't let that discourage you, either. There's supposed to be room for all of us, otherwise there's no point in calling it the Catholic (Universal) Church. As long as you believe in the basic doctrines, liturgy, the Sacraments, etc. I would say that you are Catholic.

I, myself, have tried to leave Catholicism a few times but always end up going back to it.

 

[Quiddity]

A minority of clergy is not heterosexual. The Catholic Church has to address a litany of issues that surround a male only clergy. Most of all ephebophilia, which plagues the Church to this day; along with hebephilia and pedophilia. Only related to homosexuality, transsexual, etc. in that all will be looked at when entering the priesthood. It gets a little tricky theologically when a priesthood which is supposed to be married to the Church (which is female) is no longer a symbol of a male. Probably means nothing to many outside the Church but maintaining that homogamy along with God's emphatic expressions of feminism and maleness in the Christian life.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

A minority of clergy is not heterosexual. The Catholic Church has to address a litany of issues that surround a male only clergy. Most of all ephebophilia, which plagues the Church to this day; along with hebephilia and pedophilia. Only related to homosexuality, transsexual, etc. in that all will be looked at when entering the priesthood. It gets a little tricky theologically when a priesthood which is supposed to be married to the Church (which is female) is no longer a symbol of a male. Probably means nothing to many outside the Church but maintaining that homogamy along with God's emphatic expressions of feminism and maleness in the Christian life.

It's interesting that you mention the symbolism of the Bride and the Bridegroom and the gay issue, because someone just brought that up to me again: http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...oes-catholic-theology-imply-support-male.html

I've thought, myself, about the seeming conundrum this concept causes.

 

[Quiddity]

It's interesting that you mention the symbolism of the Bride and the Bridegroom and the gay issue, because someone just brought that up to me again: http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...oes-catholic-theology-imply-support-male.html

I've thought, myself, about the seeming conundrum this concept causes.

I responded. However, I'm certain I will lose most with the philosophical connections I made.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I responded. However, I'm certain I will lose most with the philosophical connections I made.

Cool. I saw it. Yeah, it might too "deep" for some here, but it certainly gives much room for thought. Certainly gave me a different perspective on it that I hadn't heard before. Thanks, brother.