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When Should Women Obey Their Husbands?

Underhill

Well-Known Member
I think you will find the poster is tongue in cheek, as he is an agnostic. Scripture has to be understood. If you don't like passages that has commanded that people die for some reason, then how do you reconcile that with people dying now? Is that God? Is that man? Do you want nothing to do with mankind?

Mankind who acts like the god of the bible? No, I want nothing to do with them.

People die all the time. That doesn't mean anything. It's life. People trying to attribute meaning to everything that happens are delusional.

And even Christians agree with me in most cases. If someone walked around praising peter pan for helping them getting over the flu, or finding a job, or their new car, virtually everyone would write them off as bat **** insane. But when a christian does the same, attributing it all to god or jesus....
 

Fuzzy

New Member
Under what conditions, if any, should a woman habitually obey her husband? Are there any conditions under which a woman should not obey her husband?

If a woman should habitually obey her husband, why should she habitually obey her husband? Is a woman who does not habitually obey her husband acting in an immoral manner?

If a woman believes her husband is a fool, should she still habitually obey him? If a woman believes her husband is abusive, should she still obey him?

Bonus Question: Why is nearly every woman on the Forum secretly in love with Debater Slayer despite his appalling taste in socks?
Wifely submission, obedience has been indicated from the Genesis account with Adam and Eve. Part of Eve's sin was her lack of respect for her husband. He, not God, had told her what God had told him about the forbidden fruit. Yet. she went ahead and followed her own ideas. This problem surely is ever-present even in today's Christian and Jewish marriages.

However, the problem is how far, in what ways should the wife be submissive!

Does the husband's ideas of what the wife can do count, or should scripture count! Clearly, scripture supersedes the husbands ideas.

What then does scripture indicate? That our Lord, Christ Jesus, gave his life for his wifely church just as a man should love his wife. Does this smack of tyranny? In no way. It is the way of love. In Proverbs 31 we see this woman being praised, this wife, being the reason the husband is respected among the important people of his city, that she conducts business, and much more. We see her being praised up and down in scripture.

Is she then some kind of worker, slave, in the household. In no way. If the husband loves his wife, he will help her with the chores around the house instead of letting her do all the work and being a bump in the sofa just using her to get beer, coffee, and so forth. I could go on, but must be brief.

Then, in what ways should she be submissive? In that when important matters are being discussed, and things are carefully planned, accepting that his decision about how to proceed is what counts unless it is against scripture and her conscience. The husband whose wife is smarter than he, will, if he acts out of love, recognize this and listen to her thoughts so as perhaps make an important decision that accepts her wisdom and do as she suggest. In Abraham's case, God told him once in an important case to do as Sarah wanted! This shall not happen to most in that fashion, but perhaps with prayerful consideration, something will indicate which way is best. Yet, it is the husband's choice, not the wife's.

This most wives cannot accept, unfortunately.
 

freethinker44

Well-Known Member
haha... funny. But that is what we all follow. It is called instinct. I know we have intelligence to overcome such things, but not all people have the same philosophy in life. Changing what is God given will always have consequences.
It's not a philosophical position, it's biological. I don't understand why so many people consider intelligence to be unnatural. Whether you believe it is evolved or God given through free will, it is in our nature too. Intelligence will always supercede "primordial" urges because no matter how strong the urge, we will always have the ability to choose not to obey it. If anyone claims they can't overcome their natural urges they're either being lazy or they really don't want to. Either way, it's no excuse for anti-social behavior.
 

sanraal

Member
Yeeeeeah. Two things;

One, your profile picture might be the single gayest thing I've seen on this website. No offense, I don't mind, I just find it hilarious that someone who seems to be big on "Traditional Values" picked that as his image.

Two, I really don't think you understand women near as well as you think you do.


Dear Nietzsche,

It's fine if you don't agree with my opinion and and react to the content of my message, but this is 'off topic' because
1) you are hurling a personal insult at my profile picture by saying it's gay and
2) This has nothing to do with the topic.

I love my profile picture so that hurts me. Goodbye.

regards,

Chris
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
Wifely submission, obedience has been indicated from the Genesis account with Adam and Eve. Part of Eve's sin was her lack of respect for her husband. He, not God, had told her what God had told him about the forbidden fruit. Yet. she went ahead and followed her own ideas. This problem surely is ever-present even in today's Christian and Jewish marriages.

I was waiting for somebody to come in and spell out the rebelliousness of women because it was all Eve's fault. I hope you realize that perspectives such as this created the scapegoating culture that we continue to see to this day where any fault of a husband is blamed on his wife. She didn't listen, obey, respect, honor, love enough...and this placed the entire family and the marriage in a bad place.

Scapegoating is a dangerous practice, and one that results in the dehumanization of women in this manner. Dehumanization results in assault, rape, and murder among other things. I think one must be very very careful when painting with such a broad brush.

However, the problem is how far, in what ways should the wife be submissive!

Does the husband's ideas of what the wife can do count, or should scripture count! Clearly, scripture supersedes the husbands ideas.

What then does scripture indicate? That our Lord, Christ Jesus, gave his life for his wifely church just as a man should love his wife. Does this smack of tyranny? In no way. It is the way of love. In Proverbs 31 we see this woman being praised, this wife, being the reason the husband is respected among the important people of his city, that she conducts business, and much more. We see her being praised up and down in scripture.

Is she then some kind of worker, slave, in the household. In no way. If the husband loves his wife, he will help her with the chores around the house instead of letting her do all the work and being a bump in the sofa just using her to get beer, coffee, and so forth. I could go on, but must be brief.

Sounds great until it's put in practice. Who decides when he is being a bump in the sofa, if he has praised her up and down enough, if he has expressed love to her enough?

In these cases, it is the perspective and the "leadership" of the husband who decides if he has loved her enough or if he really is treating her like a slave.

Ever read the stories of the women who escaped the Quiverfull movement? The ones who take the male headship from the Bible to the letter? It's horrific. The abuse, rape, and sometimes torture at the hands of their ex-husbands who claim headship in all spheres of the family's public and private lives is not to be taken lightly.

Then, in what ways should she be submissive? In that when important matters are being discussed, and things are carefully planned, accepting that his decision about how to proceed is what counts unless it is against scripture and her conscience. The husband whose wife is smarter than he, will, if he acts out of love, recognize this and listen to her thoughts so as perhaps make an important decision that accepts her wisdom and do as she suggest. In Abraham's case, God told him once in an important case to do as Sarah wanted! This shall not happen to most in that fashion, but perhaps with prayerful consideration, something will indicate which way is best. Yet, it is the husband's choice, not the wife's.

Who decides if his decision is against scripture?

Who decides if a decision is against her conscience is really a matter of ethics or if a wife is simply in rebellion?

Do you really know what happens in these conversations? If the husband must always be the one to make a final decision...on everything...and considers himself as always acting out of love, this places his wife in a very very bad predicament and one where her conscience is considered wrong if not in line with his.

This most wives cannot accept, unfortunately.

Damned straight most wives don't accept that. And it's very fortunate we don't accept that. There was a reason why domestic violence shelters were opened beginning a couple generations ago. It's because these types of relatonships when left unchecked open themselves to all kinds of abuse of power.

Most people, men and women, are happy to have more give-and-take with each other. Power-distinct relationships are not as common as egalitarian relationships.
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
Nietzsche. Looking at your profile picture you look like a wannabe teenage Satanist with a black metal pagan t-shirt, little personal hygiene and probably never had a girlfriend. Why you reply to a post about the New Testament and relationships is a mystery to me. Anyways, I don't hang out with the little kiddies. I kick them one time against the shins and they run like a little dog.

Is that a violent streak I sense here? Or are you just joking?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Dear Nietzsche,
It's fine if you don't agree with my opinion and and react to the content of my message, but this is 'off topic' because
1) you are hurling a personal insult at my profile picture by saying it's gay and
2) This has nothing to do with the topic.
I love my profile picture so that hurts me. Goodbye.
Since he's not here at the moment, I'll venture my opinion that he likes your pic, but finds it incongruous with your posts. I'll add that I think you're cute as the dickens!
 

sanraal

Member
Since he's not here at the moment, I'll venture my opinion that he likes your pic, but finds it incongruous with your posts. I'll add that I think you're cute as the dickens!

Ah, thank you so much for replying. That does make it clear I am here mainly with teens. and twenty something I for a moment thought to find a mature conversation here 'on topic' about religions in depth which I do find very interesting. I guess I am indeed at the wrong forum. If this is how people react in general, indeed I'll just quit my account in 1 or 2 days. In real life, I find much better conversations.
 
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oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
..............Part of Eve's sin was her lack of respect for her husband. He, not God, had told her what God had told him about the forbidden fruit. Yet. she went ahead and followed her own ideas........................................

No she didn't.
She got duped by a serpent!
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
Nietzsche. Looking at your profile picture you look like a wannabe teenage Satanist with a black metal pagan t-shirt, little personal hygiene and probably never had a girlfriend. Why you reply to a post about the New Testament and relationships is a mystery to me. Anyways, I don't hang out with the little kiddies. I kick them one time against the shins and they run like a little dog.
I post about the NT because I can read Greek & Aramaic. I post in this thread because I don't think women should be inherently subordinate to men 'lest that is their wish.

Is that a violent streak I sense here? Or are you just joking?
I hope it's foreplay, personally.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Ah, thank you so much for replying. That does make it clear I am here mainly with teens. and twenty something I for a moment thought to find a mature conversation here 'on topic' about religions in depth which I do find very interesting. I guess I am indeed at the wrong forum. If this is how people react in general, indeed I'll just quit my account in 1 or 2 days. In real life, I find much better conversations.
Lucky you!
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I have no religious interaction in real life. I have buttons. If I had obeyed my husband who said I should stop buying stuff for nothing I would not have the three good friends I have, I would not be a president, I would not have gone to Hawaii, and I would have nothing to do but forum other than you know cleaning and cooking. And reading. And stuff.
Husband has not forbid forum yet though i think he should. I think i might obey that one.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Ah, thank you so much for replying. That does make it clear I am here mainly with teens. and twenty something I for a moment thought to find a mature conversation here 'on topic' about religions in depth which I do find very interesting. I guess I am indeed at the wrong forum. If this is how people react in general, indeed I'll just quit my account in 1 or 2 days. In real life, I find much better conversations.
Once you get a feel for the place, it will become more peaceful for you.....you'll know better how to read people, whom to avoid, etc.
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
I have no religious interaction in real life. I have buttons. If I had obeyed my husband who said I should stop buying stuff for nothing I would not have the three good friends I have, I would not be a president, I would not have gone to Hawaii, and I would have nothing to do but forum other than you know cleaning and cooking. And reading. And stuff.
Husband has not forbid forum yet though i think he should. I think i might obey that one.
Eh? President of what, exactly?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I am not aware of what that is. Would you be so kind as to explain a bit?
See above. I can't give you too much information or the assassins will find me. I am easy. I also know if they wanted to they would find me. So I just have to be careful of the poor crazies. But it is OK if they live over there. I am sorry. Are we off topic?
 
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