When was Jesus born?

[YoursTrue]

The question has been brought up by more than one that the accounts in the Bible by Luke and Matthew differ insofar as when Jesus was born. I am hoping to have a decent discussion as to the various opinions and explanations about this. It gets kind of deep as far as I am concerned since I am not a history buff, and this involves interesting points of history concerning Judea and the governors. Lots of things to note, so hoping to have a decent discussion. In fact, I see that different translations use different terms about this.
Luke 2 from verses 1-7 are quoted here, taken from the Berean Standard Bible.
"Now in those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that a census should be taken of the whole empire.a 2This was the first census to take place while Quirinius was governor of Syria. 3And everyone went to his own town to register.
4So Joseph also went up from Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to the city of David called Bethlehem, since he was from the house and line of David. 5He went there to register with Mary, who was pledged to him in marriage and was expecting a child.
6While they were there, the time came for her Child to be born. 7And she gave birth to her firstborn, a Son. She wrapped Him in swaddling cloths and laid Him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn."

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Which time? When he was born or born again? Or when he was born in those who have been baptized in his name?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Good news. It's not history but theology.

 

[McBell]

Depends entirely upon whom you ask.
The best I can tell, there is still much contention over what year Jesus was born.
Forget about a month or day.

Date of the birth of Jesus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[rocala]

"Now in those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that a census should be taken of the whole empire..."

Is there a non-biblical record of this census?

 

[YoursTrue]

Depends entirely upon whom you ask.
The best I can tell, there is still much contention over what year Jesus was born.
Forget about a month or day.

Date of the birth of Jesus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Very interesting article, thanks for posting it. I'm looking it over as carefully as possible. It's detailed so I have to take my time.

 

[SalixIncendium]

The short answer: No one knows.

There is too much conflicting information to ascertain not only the time of year, but the year itself. As the linked article states, scholars and historians have narrowed it down to sometime between 6 BCE and 4 BCE.

But if there is ever a mystery that no one else in the world has been able to figure out, creating a thread and having the denizens of RF debate over it for pages on end will most certainly get to the bottom of it.

 

[Stevicus]

December 25, 0 A.D.

 

[justaguy313]

25th of december

Our Imam Ahmed Al Hassan from him is peace clarified that this is the correct date of Jesus's birth

 

[YoursTrue]

The short answer: No one knows.

There is too much conflicting information to ascertain not only the time of year, but the year itself. As the linked article states, scholars and historians have narrowed it down to sometime between 6 BCE and 4 BCE.

But if there is ever a mystery that no one else in the world has been able to figure out, creating a thread and having the denizens of RF debate over it for pages on end will most certainly get to the bottom of it.

My interest in this is about the controversy over Matthew's account and Luke's account. Thank you for the above, by the way. And as I look into it, it becomes very interesting regarding the connection Judea had with Greece and Rome. So thanks!

 

[YoursTrue]

So according to Luke 2, a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that a census should be taken of the whole empire.
Who was Caesar Augustus? He was the founder of the Roman Empire and reigned as the first Roman emperor from 27 BCE until his death in 14 BCE. (more to follow asap)

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Very interesting article, thanks for posting it. I'm looking it over as carefully as possible. It's detailed so I have to take my time.

Who was Caesar Augustus? He was the founder of the Roman Empire and reigned as the first Roman emperor from 27 BCE until his death in 14 BCE. (more to follow asap)

^ emphasis added - JF

While you're looking it over as carefully as possible," consider the following:

Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus (born Gaius Octavius; 23 September 63 BC – 19 August AD 14), also known as Octavian (Latin: Octavianus), was the founder of the Roman Empire; he reigned as the first Roman emperor from 27 BC until his death in AD 14.[a] The reign of Augustus initiated an imperial cult as well as an era associated with imperial peace, the Pax Romana or Pax Augusta, in which the Roman world was largely free of armed conflict aside from expansionary wars and the Year of the Four Emperors. The Principate system of imperial rule established by Augustus lasted until the Crisis of the Third Century. [source]​

Note the difference between 14 BCE and AD 14.

 

[YoursTrue]

^ emphasis added - JF

While you're looking it over as carefully as possible," consider the following:

Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus (born Gaius Octavius; 23 September 63 BC – 19 August AD 14), also known as Octavian (Latin: Octavianus), was the founder of the Roman Empire; he reigned as the first Roman emperor from 27 BC until his death in AD 14.[a] The reign of Augustus initiated an imperial cult as well as an era associated with imperial peace, the Pax Romana or Pax Augusta, in which the Roman world was largely free of armed conflict aside from expansionary wars and the Year of the Four Emperors. The Principate system of imperial rule established by Augustus lasted until the Crisis of the Third Century. [source]​

Note the difference between 14 BCE and AD 14.

Thank you. That is quite a difference. Sorry, my mistake. OK, so maybe I'll get it right this time. Caesar Augustus, emperor of Rome from 27 BCE (I don't like to use BC because it's not accurate anyway since no one really knows the year or date on which he was born so I use BCE and CE) until his death in 14 CE. (I hope I have it right this time.)

 

[Eddi]

We can't know

And it doesn't matter

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Is there a non-biblical record of this census?

According to Amy-Jill Levine and Marc Zvi Brettler, the editors of The Jewish Annotated New Testament, "the census is not externally attested."

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

OK, so maybe I'll get it right this time.

I'm curious about your reasons for pursuing the toping. What do you hope to gain from casual forum members that you could not find in the presumably more authoritative Wikipedia entry?

 

[YoursTrue]

So -- now that we may have it established that the text in Luke chapter 2 says something like (translational differences taken into account) --
Luke 2:1-3 Berean Standard Bible.
"Now in those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that a census should be taken of the whole empire. 2This was the first census to take place while Quirinius was governor of Syria. 3And everyone went to his own town to register.
We settled (I think) that Augustus was the emperor of Rome during that time. Luke wrote it was the first census to take place while Quirinius was governor of Syria. (There are some things to be taken into consideration about Luke since he was a physician and likely to be careful how he presented things.)
So then, how does Quirinius, the governor of Syria, fit in with a census of Judea? I'm working on figuring out how Syria and Judea and Rome were connected. It's an interesting excursion and I appreciate it. Lots to it, but -- still trying to center on Luke's account about the situation regarding the birth of Jesus. Oh, and how does Syria and Rome connect? I'll work on that.
To sum up so far:

The emperor of Rome, Caesar Augustus, issued a decree that the inhabitants of his empire should be numbered. That included Judea. Quirinius was the governor of Judea. Of course this leads to questions in my mind about how extensive at that time was the Roman empire, but I suppose that will have to wait (put on the back burner) until I figure out what's going on with Luke's statement so I understand it better.

 

[YoursTrue]

I'm curious about your reasons for pursuing the toping. What do you hope to gain from casual forum members that you could not find in the presumably more authoritative Wikipedia entry?

I have a few reasons, but primarily to settle in my mind why do some commentators say the two versions of the time of Jesus' birth in the Bible conflict. And some then say that is another reason why they believe that means the Bible is not true. So, since I appreciate any reasonable comments here it helps. Comments of a respectful nature like yours are welcome. Including corrections.

 

[YoursTrue]

According to Amy-Jill Levine and Marc Zvi Brettler, the editors of The Jewish Annotated New Testament, "the census is not externally attested."

I'm reading more about that (external sources) but am not prepared to offer a comment yet about outside sources. However -- I will say that Luke, being a physician, strikes me as someone who would be careful about his testimony. Possibly to be continued...

 

[YoursTrue]

So @Jayhawker Soule , my next excursion is to try to figure out Judea's connection with Syria. I like to establish, if I can, things in my own mind. Thanks again for your comments.