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"When You Grow Up as a Girl...."

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
“When you grow up as a girl, it is like there are faint chalk lines traced approximately three inches around your entire body at all times, drawn by society and often religion and family and particularly other women, who somehow feel invested in how you behave, as if your actions reflect directly on all womanhood.”

― M.E. Thomas, Confessions of a Sociopath: A Life Spent Hiding in Plain Sight

I'd be interested in hearing from women especially what they make of Thomas' remarks here.
 

Terese

Mangalam Pundarikakshah
Staff member
Premium Member
I have felt like that sometimes, it's an unpleasant feeling.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
“When you grow up as a girl, it is like there are faint chalk lines traced approximately three inches around your entire body at all times, drawn by society and often religion and family and particularly other women, who somehow feel invested in how you behave, as if your actions reflect directly on all womanhood.”

― M.E. Thomas, Confessions of a Sociopath: A Life Spent Hiding in Plain Sight

I'd be interested in hearing from women especially what they make of Thomas' remarks here.
Reminds me of my nephew, who wasn't even given three inches by his dad (my brother), who was expected to be a specific and certain way, or else it just wouldn't work and his son wasn't right and it didn't reflect "correctly" upon my brother's warped sense of masculinity and paper-thin ego.
To be fair that could also be true growing up male, gay or a minority ethnicity. Society expects conformity and even break off chunks of society typically have expectations of its members.
Yes. Boys aren't supposed to read, or cry, or show emotion, or show they are caring and sensitive. That whole "be a man" thing, even though they are boys with their entire lives ahead of them and a world of possibilities of who they can be other than this caricature of masculinity that is expected of them.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
To be fair that could also be true growing up male, gay or a minority ethnicity. Society expects conformity and even break off chunks of society typically have expectations of its members.
I think with the quote and what you say in consideration, it does apply to boys and girls, but I boys it seems are given some more breathing room, but only in the right direction, with a few "permissible" alternatives. Girls, on the other hand, they are raised as child-rearers and house keepers, with not many "feminine enough" alternatives available.
Or we can switch things completely up, and consider how a girl who acts like a "tomboy" isn't viewed as bad, but a boy who displays interests in girl things, we don't even have a non-derogatory word (that I'm aware of) to describe that. Which reflects upon the "stronger" position boys are expected to fill and the "weaker" role girls are expected to fill.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
I think with the quote and what you say in consideration, it does apply to boys and girls, but I boys it seems are given some more breathing room, but only in the right direction, with a few "permissible" alternatives. Girls, on the other hand, they are raised as child-rearers and house keepers, with not many "feminine enough" alternatives available.
Or we can switch things completely up, and consider how a girl who acts like a "tomboy" isn't viewed as bad, but a boy who displays interests in girl things, we don't even have a non-derogatory word (that I'm aware of) to describe that. Which reflects upon the "stronger" position boys are expected to fill and the "weaker" role girls are expected to fill.
Well the West is actually a lot more lenient than other cultures. Still a ways to go though. Though I'd rather the expectations of a female in Australia than the ones foisted upon me by well meaning Indian people.
I haven't really encountered that many in life. Or at least I haven't cared enough to take notice. Surrounded by fiercely dominant females I guess it never occurred to me growing up to you know give a damn.

My nephew was bullied a bit for liking girly things when he was very little. But he seems to be doing okay now. You try to protect them but alas.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Well the West is actually a lot more lenient than other cultures. Still a ways to go though. Though I'd rather the expectations of a female in Australia than the ones foisted upon me by well meaning Indian people.
I haven't really encountered that many in life. Or at least I haven't cared enough to take notice. Surrounded by fiercely dominant females I guess it never occurred to me growing up to you know give a damn.

My nephew was bullied a bit for liking girly things when he was very little. But he seems to be doing okay now. You try to protect them but alas.
The OP quote and your post also got me thinking, there is no doubt adult men invest way too much in how young boys turn out thinking it reflects on their masculinity, while adult women invest way too much in how young girls turn out thinking it reflects on them. Being MtF, I wasn't raised as a girl, but I've still been "hit" with certain things that men never deal with have to consider, but yet guys also face certain restrictions and expectations. Rape, for instance, is something guys really don't talk about or consider and keep very silent about it if it happens to them, but, upon transitioning and venturing out as a woman have I found the subject of rape coming up. Beauty standards and expectations have also never come up before, just as has never before reassurance that your value as a human being revolves around your character rather than beauty/looks.
However, where it can be said boys have their boundaries are also some pretty harsh ones. Such as, men aren't supposed to show their emotions, which isn't really that good because it teaches young boys and men to brush asides their emotions instead of learning how to deal with, express and cope with them. They are also raised in such a way that they have a higher rate of injury and death over stunt risk taking, and are more likely to be killed by a reluctance to go to the doctor (until it's too late). And then it's pretty much assumed you yourself judge all women based on how hot they are, and are always thinking about how you want to screw certain ones.
And then also people drool and fawn over lesbians, but display aggressive behaviors towards gays. Both reactions are inappropriate, making them they same, but they're also different. Which is what I think the issue really boils down to. Both boys and girls do face some crappy expectations growing up and as adults. Men, however, have gotten to live with the facade they have more control and self-ownership than women, when really they too are heavily manipulated, but in different areas.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
The OP quote and your post also got me thinking, there is no doubt adult men invest way too much in how young boys turn out thinking it reflects on their masculinity, while adult women invest way too much in how young girls turn out thinking it reflects on them. Being MtF, I wasn't raised as a girl, but I've still been "hit" with certain things that men never deal with have to consider, but yet guys also face certain restrictions and expectations. Rape, for instance, is something guys really don't talk about or consider and keep very silent about it if it happens to them, but, upon transitioning and venturing out as a woman have I found the subject of rape coming up. Beauty standards and expectations have also never come up before, just as has never before reassurance that your value as a human being revolves around your character rather than beauty/looks.
However, where it can be said boys have their boundaries are also some pretty harsh ones. Such as, men aren't supposed to show their emotions, which isn't really that good because it teaches young boys and men to brush asides their emotions instead of learning how to deal with, express and cope with them. They are also raised in such a way that they have a higher rate of injury and death over stunt risk taking, and are more likely to be killed by a reluctance to go to the doctor (until it's too late). And then it's pretty much assumed you yourself judge all women based on how hot they are, and are always thinking about how you want to screw certain ones.
And then also people drool and fawn over lesbians, but display aggressive behaviors towards gays. Both reactions are inappropriate, making them they same, but they're also different. Which is what I think the issue really boils down to. Both boys and girls do face some crappy expectations growing up and as adults. Men, however, have gotten to live with the facade they have more control and self-ownership than women, when really they too are heavily manipulated, but in different areas.

Humans want conformity, they want everyone to be certain things. When reality is messy. Some boys are into pink some girls are into mud. The old gender stereotypes cast a long shadow indeed. We like to think we're moving past them, when in reality we are simply reinforcing them. Even those who actively fight against them. I mean Wonder Woman is either despised or lionised depending on which specific Feminist you talk to. So is Batgirl for that matter.
All expectations should be torn down. But also being mindful of those who happen to fit them as well.

I dislike it when it's framed as a contest though. Women have X to live up to and men have Y to live up to, who has it worse?
Why is that always the implication? Why is it framed as uniquely bad for one side or the other? No one wins, we're all screwed by society anyway.
 

Rye_P

Deo Juvante
Agree with that Thomas guy.

"It's not a proper behaviour for girls" is one words that I hear the most from my beloved society. It's like parents here have a long list of skills that we need to mastered as a girls. Meanwhile its okay for boys to be naughty or bad cos it's normal for em.
 
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