Where did Jesus go?

[outhouse]

At least as many as there are "flocks."

True.

More so early on before orthodox views set in.

Each sect or cult, had its own views on who and what Jesus was.

 

[savagewind]

It is a complicated question, a good one but complicated.


One? Not really, but WHEN is also very important.

Before the NT Judaism was not one static culture. It was multicultural and diverse. And there was no orthodox Judaism. There were many different ways people chose to worship.

Before lets say 400BC ish, "some" Jews were still polytheistic, worshipping both El and Yahweh, Baal and Asherah.


When Jesus was killed, there were many different kinds of jews and multi cultural, all with different beliefs on what they believed and worshipped.

There was one temple and one high priest. One flock.

And these flocks exactly alike or are there different views and opinions on how they view Jesus??????

What? Not "flocks". One flock. Singular. I am sure there are none in the flock that view Jesus exactly the same. But we all view him as true, trustworthy and deserving our worship. He did say "worship God". Worshipping God is possible through the worship* of the son Jesus.
*paying constant attention to

And if Jesus was a man who lived and died and martyred, and not a real god, then there is no real flock, is there?

Jesus was a man who lived and died and [was] martyred and was not a real god during his lifetime. He is a real god now. There is a real flock. It is small.

 

[outhouse]

He is a real god now. .

What if all gods are created by men?


I mean you dont have a shred of evidence, man did not create him.

We only have evidence men defined and changed gods definitions at will, and a clear track record of men creating gods.


Now what you dont know is before the gospels were orthodox, some early christians and jews viewed Jesus as a man, and not a god.

He was only deified in time. Remember divinity is something they gave to mortal men. The Emperor was seen as divine in this time period.

 

[savagewind]

What if all gods are created by men?


I mean you dont have a shred of evidence, man did not create him.

We only have evidence men defined and changed gods definitions at will, and a clear track record of men creating gods.


Now what you dont know is before the gospels were orthodox, some early christians and jews viewed Jesus as a man, and not a god.

He was only deified in time. Remember divinity is something they gave to mortal men. The Emperor was seen as divine in this time period.

You say I have no shred of evidence that Jesus should be worshipped. Is that it? "A voice was heard out of heaven this is my son, the loved one, listen to him" The best worship means listening. Yes or no?

I have no evidence because you have it all. LOL Ever hear of a glass house?

 

[outhouse]

You say I have no shred of evidence that Jesus should be worshipped. Is that it?

I did not say that did I?



People worshipped living men, and dead ones.

 

[savagewind]

I did not say that did I?



People worshipped living men, and dead ones.

What don't I have a shred of evidence for? I don't have a shred of evidence for Jesus came from God? I heard only liars expect other people to be liars too. I have a world full of evidence Jesus came from God.

 

[outhouse]

Whats funny is you dont realize you posted evidence that shows how diverse the early movement was.

Paul telling you "we are all one flock", was in responce to all the different groups and diversity that was going on at that time. All the different beliefs, and Paul was just trying to unify the few houses he visited, and he wanted them to become one flock, not diverse like they were.. There were no churches in that time.


Why do you think Pauls communities wrote to these other communities?

You dont think it was to try and unify his belief?


It was funny to see you dig so deep to argue my point out of context, and avoid answering a simple historical question.

 

[outhouse]

What don't I have a shred of evidence for? I don't have a shred of evidence for Jesus came from God? .

You have no evidence Jesus was more then a man.

You dont have evidence god exist.

You do know for the first 300 years of christianity, jesus was not viewed as one with god, that was only defined after a council in 325 AD. The trinity is later dogma.

I heard only liars expect other peoploe to be liars too

Now your pulling that same weak garbage?

Attack the message, not the messenger, it shows your desperation.

That and you do not wish to learn about the topic at hand.

 

[savagewind]

Whats funny is you dont realize you posted evidence that shows how diverse the early movement was.

Paul telling you "we are all one flock", was in responce to all the different groups and diversity that was going on at that time. All the different beliefs, and Paul was just trying to unify the few houses he visited, and he wanted them to become one flock, not diverse like they were.. There were no churches in that time.


Why do you think Pauls communities wrote to these other communities?

You dont think it was to try and unify his belief?


It was funny to see you dig so deep to argue my point out of context, and avoid answering a simple historical question.

That is true. It is not what Jesus is about. Jesus is about one flock. It is what we are talking about. Paul just showed believers not to trust in congregations. Men can't be trusted. Jesus CAN be trusted. It proves he is from God.

 

[savagewind]

You have no evidence Jesus was more then a man.

I have no evidence to prove Jesus was a man.

You dont have evidence god exist.

Did you see the movie Contact?

You do know for the first 300 years of christianity, jesus was not viewed as one with god, that was only defined after a council in 325 AD. The trinity is later dogma.

I read forum so I DO know that.

Now your pulling that same weak garbage?

Maybe I'm spending to much time with you. I think we should break up.

Attack the message, not the messenger, it shows your desperation.

OK

That and you do not wish to learn about the topic at hand.

I think it is You who do not want to learn.

 

[outhouse]

Paul just showed believers not to trust in congregations

.

I do not see how that can make any sense.

Congregations did not exist as you know them, back then, In Pauls time churches did not exist.

We had gatherings in private houses back then.


How did he show them this?????????????

 

[savagewind]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRoj3jK37Vc

I do not know why The God experience is a personal experience.

 

[savagewind]

I do not see how that can make any sense.

Congregations did not exist as you know them, back then, In Pauls time churches did not exist.

We had gatherings in private houses back then.


How did he show them this?????????????

He shows US not to bother. He did all he could to unite them. They would not unite. They still won't.

 

[outhouse]

I think it is You who do not want to learn.

.

Then show examples.

Apologetics is not history. I can show how you let your bias stop you from credible historical knowledge.

LOOK, your argueing over no that at all. The purpose of these threads is to advance knowledge, not knowledge you wish, but what is known by those who do this for a living. Professors are a great example, biased apologist are not.

 

[outhouse]

He shows US not to bother. He did all he could to unite them. They would not unite. They still won't.

Exact quotes please.

Who would not unite? how do you know?

So if they wont unite, they are not one flock are they? They are multiple flocks that do believe in jesus, yet hold very different beliefs about him correct?

 

[savagewind]

Then show examples.

Apologetics is not history. I can show how you let your bias stop you from credible historical knowledge.

LOOK, your argueing over no that at all. The purpose of these threads is to advance knowledge, not knowledge you wish, but what is known by those who do this for a living. Professors are a great example, biased apologist are not.

You do not want to understand how spirit is involved. You seem to think time is linear. It is not. Do you want to learn about spirit and time? No? Those are my examples of proof.... you sir live in a glass house.

 

[outhouse]

You do not want to understand how spirit is involved.


.

Spirits do not scientifically exist at this point in time. They are in the realm of mythology at this point in time.


We do not use mythology to determine history. We have to study mythology and look for a possible hsitorical core. At this time none has been found for this topic.

 

[outhouse]

Those are my examples of proof

.

Only proof that you have faith, which we really dont care about.


If you wanmt us to imagine where we think jesus went, you should have said so.

 

[savagewind]

Spirits do not scientifically exist at this point in time. They are in the realm of mythology at this point in time.


We do not use mythology to determine history. We have to study mythology and look for a possible hsitorical core. At this time none has been found for this topic.

So....things you don't know about don't exist. Interesting.

 

[outhouse]

Do you want to learn about spirit and time?

.

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?


It has nothing to do with history.