I always understood that Sikhism sort of just appeared out of nowhere in the 15th century under the leadership of Guru Nanak and the developed subsequently under the following Gurus. But isn't it likely that there was some kind of religious ferment prior to the 15th century that was "pre-Sikh"? Otherwise what factors led to its appearance and popularity out of nowhere? Was Sikhism under the first gurus simply the most popular of a bunch of movements that were reacting to aspects of Hinduism that were unsatisfactory as more Indians encountered Islam??
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Where did Sikhism come from?
- Thread starter duvduv
- Start date
Epic Beard Man
Bearded Philosopher
Good question. I think Sikhism draws its monotheistic roots from Hinduism but shy away from its ritualistic aspect, but I also think Sikh philosophies draw some Islamic elements. I pulled up something that was written:
"It is difficult to be called a Muslim; if one is truly a Muslim, then he may be called one.
First, let him savor the religion of the Prophet as sweet; then, let his pride of his possessions be scraped away.
Becoming a true Muslim, a disciple of the faith of Mohammed, let him put aside the delusion of death and life.
As he submits to God's Will, and surrenders to the Creator, he is rid of selfishness and conceit.
And when, O Nanak, he is merciful to all beings, only then shall he be called a Muslim."
"It is difficult to be called a Muslim; if one is truly a Muslim, then he may be called one.
First, let him savor the religion of the Prophet as sweet; then, let his pride of his possessions be scraped away.
Becoming a true Muslim, a disciple of the faith of Mohammed, let him put aside the delusion of death and life.
As he submits to God's Will, and surrenders to the Creator, he is rid of selfishness and conceit.
And when, O Nanak, he is merciful to all beings, only then shall he be called a Muslim."
I've worked with many Sikh engineers.
They all pronounced it as "seek".
But I just heard on NPR that "sick" is proper.
What's up with this?
They all pronounced it as "seek".
But I just heard on NPR that "sick" is proper.
What's up with this?
It's Sikh with a long i.
Think of saying 'sik' as the equivalent of 'turbine' rhyming with goldmine.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
The “sick” pronunciation is correct. Indic languages have short and long vowels. If it were transliterated Sīkh it would be pronounced Seekh and mean something else (if anything at all). But it’s transliterated Sikh, so it’s like the i in ‘it’. The length of a vowel can completely change a word’s meaning.
E.g. mālā (mah-lah) is a string of prayer beads. Mala (muh-luh) means filth. Vāsudeva (Vah-su-devuh) is a name of Krishna. Vasudeva (Vuh-su-devuh) is Krishna’s father. The long a in Vāsudeva indicated “son of”. Vāsudevā, grammatically would be “daughter of Vasudeva”, the final ā makes a noun feminine. And it get exponentially worse for other parts of speech.
Glad you asked?
P.s. I think they pronounce it that way because westerners might find the ‘sick’ pronunciation humorous. The name Shiva is not pronounced Sheeva, but like what Jews sit after a funeral. There might be the expectation that “foreign” languages would largely conform to Spanish and Italian pronunciation.
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"Psych"?
That's even worse than "sick"!
This is utterly wrong, & offends the ears.
I'll stick with the pronunciation used by the Sikhs I knew from India.
Many borrowed words & names are altered to better fit in,The “sick” pronunciation is correct. Indic languages have short and long vowels. If it were transliterated Sīkh it would be pronounced Seekh and mean something else (if anything at all). But it’s transliterated Sikh, so it’s like the i in ‘it’. The length of a vowel can completely change a word’s meaning.
E.g. mālā (mah-lah) is a string of prayer beads. Mala (muh-luh) means filth. Vāsudeva (Vah-su-devuh) is a name of Krishna. Vasudeva (Vuh-su-devuh) is Krishna’s father. The long a in Vāsudeva indicated “son of”. Vāsudevā, grammatically would be “daughter of Vasudeva”, the final ā makes a noun feminine. And it get exponentially worse for other parts of speech.
Glad you asked?
P.s. I think they pronounce it that way because westerners might find the ‘sick’ pronunciation humorous. The name Shiva is not pronounced Sheeva, but like what Jews sit after a funeral. There might be the expectation that “foreign” languages would largely conform to Spanish and Italian pronunciation.
eg, Moscow, Munich, Cologne, Canton.
I'm OK with this.
And yes, "sick" is an awkward pronunciation in English.
In both my & Mrs Revolt's family, the names brought over from the old
countries were awkward in English. And so they became something
similar. Many difficulties avoided.
countries were awkward in English. And so they became something
similar. Many difficulties avoided.
Let's not forget Uranus. Makes every school child giggle.
Gay astronauts wait for years training to land on Uranus.
The current pronunciation Yoor-uh-nus is closer to the Greek Ouranos, ooranos
I work with a guy from Sri Lanka named Siva (Seeva). Is Sheeva a southern pronunciation? I hear Shiva with a short i in mantras and bhajans, which why I wrote that. I defer to you though.
Oddly one of the Tamil priests (I assume he's Tamil) used the short i... the time before my shoulder surgery. In his thick accent he said to me "You come sit in front of Sri Shiva, talk to no one, no one talk to you, you pray him and do 1008 moola mantra. He make you better". I didn't do the sadhana, but I think the Lord was listening anyway and probably smiling... the surgery was a success, if not monumentally painful.
....and to find rings around Uranus.Gay astronauts wait for years training to land on Uranus.
I'm stealing that.
Hey, I stole it first!
Generally speaking, Siva is south, and Shiva is north. Both are ee. But some people from both sides will be adamant (as always) thet their version is the 'correct' version. So too with the a sound being added in the south, byt not north, like dharm and dharma, or moksh, moksha. I have heard the short i, but only from westerners, just like the short e in Ganesha. Only from westerners. As you know, it's Gan ay sha.I work with a guy from Sri Lanka named Siva (Seeva). Is Sheeva a southern pronunciation? I hear Shiva with a short i in mantras and bhajans, which why I wrote that. I defer to you though.
Yep, Hindi does that. It drops short 'a' mid- word, and terminal... Ram, Devnagari, No slight against Hindi, but it drives me nuts when that's used in mantras. Maybe I'm a Sanskrit Snob®.
Yes, the 'Gan-eh-sha' is common here. In fact it took me a while to get used to 'Gan-ey-sha'. You pointed that out a long time ago. So that's another marker you can call in when you need to.
I'm going to have to listen more closely to hearing how people or singers pronounce Shiva.
Occasionally it sounds a bit like a short 'i'.Yep, Hindi does that. It drops short 'a' mid- word, and terminal... Ram, Devnagari, No slight against Hindi, but it drives me nuts when that's used in mantras. Maybe I'm a Sanskrit Snob®.
Yes, the 'Gan-eh-sha' is common here. In fact it took me a while to get used to 'Gan-ey-sha'. You pointed that out a long time ago. So that's another marker you can call in when you need to.
I'm going to have to listen more closely to hearing how people or singers pronounce Shiva.
I love that one. I have it in my music on my phone. I see what you’re saying about the pronunciation. I never noticed it before.