Where do you stand on false accusations?

[Rachel Rugelach]

I'm curious to know what your religion (or non-religious code of behavior -- atheists are welcome to participate) says about making false accusations against others?

I'm familiar with how Christians have adopted the Ten Utterances in the Torah, which Christians call the "Ten Commandments" and which comprise the most basic principles of morality. (For those who don't already know, there are actually 613 Commandments in the Torah that observant Jews follow). Of the "Ten Commandments" that Christians follow, there is included the one about not bearing false witness against others.

In Judaism, we are taught about a pretty big sin referred to as lashon hara -- which broadly covers negative speech, gossip, the spreading of rumors, and outright lying. I think (though I could be wrong) that the only sort of lie that is maybe permissible is a lie spoken in order to keep peace -- the so-called "white lie" that is not intended to harm anyone. But I sometimes wonder whether the good intentions behind even a white lie can backfire into becoming something genuinely harmful to the very people whom one thought one was protecting.

How seriously does your own religion (or code of behavior) view lying and spreading false accusations against others?

To quote the late Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks: "There is no freedom without justice, and no justice without each of us accepting individual and collective responsibility for truth-telling."

 

[Heyo]

I'm curious to know what your religion (or non-religious code of behavior -- atheists are welcome to participate) says about making false accusations against others?

I'm familiar with how Christians have adopted the Ten Utterances in the Torah, which Christians call the "Ten Commandments" and which comprise the most basic principles of morality. (For those who don't already know, there are actually 613 Commandments in the Torah that observant Jews follow). Of the "Ten Commandments" that Christians follow, there is included the one about not bearing false witness against others.

In Judaism, we are taught about a pretty big sin referred to as lashon hara -- which broadly covers negative speech, gossip, the spreading of rumors, and outright lying. I think (though I could be wrong) that the only sort of lie that is maybe permissible is a lie spoken in order to keep peace -- the so-called "white lie" that is not intended to harm anyone. But I sometimes wonder whether the good intentions behind even a white lie can backfire into becoming something genuinely harmful to the very people whom one thought one was protecting.

How seriously does your own religion (or code of behavior) view lying and spreading false accusations against others?

To quote the late Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks: "There is no freedom without justice, and no justice without each of us accepting individual and collective responsibility for truth-telling."

My personal code of conduct is to not say thing about anybody I wouldn't say to their face. But I prefer to not talk about absent persons. (Exception are people of public life.) I don't like small talk and even more dislike gossip. Every now and then I get drawn in and violate that conviction but most of the time I manage to walk away when gossiping starts.
On RF I try to always tag people I am talking about.

 

[Nimos]

How seriously does your own religion (or code of behavior) view lying and spreading false accusations against others?

I don't like it at all.

Assuming that they are false, then it can be annoying, but in the worse case deadly, if people believe in them. I remember cases and guess most do, where someone has been wrongly accused of child molestation or something and then some people take justice into their own hands and then later that person is found not guilty.

I could only imagine how someone feels getting wrongly accused of something like that, it can completely ruin one's life, even if that person is found not guilty, I think humans, in general, will have doubt regardless, simply as a natural instinct, what if the person did it, but they just didn't found enough evidence etc. Also, there is the whole "Me too" thing, which is good if it's true, but one could doubt whether all the people accused are as guilty as they said they are. I think it is a bit too easy to just accuse people online and take the role of the victim without any major consequences. If I were famous and knew I haven't don't anything and someone accused me, I would sue them.

 

[Estro Felino]

According to the Catholic Tradition, the Eighth Commandment is fundamental.
Whoever tells a lie that can harm others, will never be forgiven by God, unless they repent.
Forgiveness imply repentance and repentance can only take place through reparation.

Dante used to say falsifiers are cast into the last bolgia of the 8th circle, where they suffer unspeakable diseases. As in life they used to deform reality (which is divine and comes from God) with their lies, now their body is disfigured by horrible illnesses.

It's exactly as you said in your religion: the lies that harm nobody in any way, are not punishable. Because divine punishment is proportioned to the damage caused unto others.

 

[PureX]

Does anyone religious or otherwise stand FOR making false accusations against people?

 

[ChristineM]

How seriously does your own religion (or code of behavior) view lying and spreading false accusations against others?

I don't lie, i believe lying is obnoxious, i world far rather prefer an honest theif to a liar.

One can never trust a liar, spreading false information is akin to lying.

 

[Estro Felino]

According to the Catholic Tradition, the Eighth Commandment is fundamental.
Whoever tells a lie that can harm others, will never be forgiven by God, unless they repent.
Forgiveness imply repentance and repentance can only take place through reparation.

Dante used to say falsifiers are cast into the last bolgia of the 8th circle, where they suffer unspeakable diseases. As in life they used to deform reality (which is divine and comes from God) with their lies, now their body is disfigured by horrible illnesses.

It's exactly as you said in your religion: the lies that harm nobody in any way, are not punishable. Because divine punishment is proportioned to the damage caused unto others.

An anecdote about the Divine Comedy: Potiphar's wife is in the eight circle with the other liars.

 

[Nimos]

I don't lie, i believe lying is obnoxious, i world far rather prefer an honest theif to a liar.

One can never trust a liar, spreading false information is akin to lying.

I don't think there is anything wrong with lying as such, it obviously depends on what it is Lying to avoid someone getting hurt is a good thing if that is what it takes.

 

[Nimos]

How seriously does your own religion (or code of behavior) view lying and spreading false accusations against others?

Here is a good example of when accusations are misused, it doesn't take a lot, in this case apparent 19 seconds

 

[Kenny]

I'm curious to know what your religion (or non-religious code of behavior -- atheists are welcome to participate) says about making false accusations against others?

I'm familiar with how Christians have adopted the Ten Utterances in the Torah, which Christians call the "Ten Commandments" and which comprise the most basic principles of morality. (For those who don't already know, there are actually 613 Commandments in the Torah that observant Jews follow). Of the "Ten Commandments" that Christians follow, there is included the one about not bearing false witness against others.

In Judaism, we are taught about a pretty big sin referred to as lashon hara -- which broadly covers negative speech, gossip, the spreading of rumors, and outright lying. I think (though I could be wrong) that the only sort of lie that is maybe permissible is a lie spoken in order to keep peace -- the so-called "white lie" that is not intended to harm anyone. But I sometimes wonder whether the good intentions behind even a white lie can backfire into becoming something genuinely harmful to the very people whom one thought one was protecting.

How seriously does your own religion (or code of behavior) view lying and spreading false accusations against others?

To quote the late Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks: "There is no freedom without justice, and no justice without each of us accepting individual and collective responsibility for truth-telling."

I would support the basic command of not lying. I am reminded of Rahab the Harlot who lied to save the two Jewish spies. I would call that an exception to the rule and apparently it saved her life too.

 

[Secret Chief]

One of the Buddhist Eightfold Path guiding principles is Right Speech; to speak truthfully. It's not cast in stone, I seem to recall the Buddha telling a fib to save someone's life. In the last years of my mother's life I told her lies to save her from unnecessary distress. But the general aspiration in "walking the path" is to be honest.

 

[Rachel Rugelach]

Here is a good example of when accusations are misused, it doesn't take a lot, in this case apparent 19 seconds

Quoted from linked video:

"So, as always, when you come across a sensational but short clip on social media, it's always a good idea to look for the extended footage."

Words to live by.

 

[Rachel Rugelach]

I would support the basic command of not lying. I am reminded of Rahab the Harlot who lied to save the two Jewish spies. I would call that an exception to the rule and apparently it saved her life too.

Rahab became one of our most famous converts to the Jewish faith.

As for lying in order to save a life... There is a precept in Judaism called pikuach nefesh which basically instructs us that the saving of a human life takes precedence over every other religious rule in our faith. Even the Sabbath is to be broken if work is required that will save a human life. So, a lie told in order to save a life is certainly an acceptable exception.

 

[wellwisher]

Truth in life is like good data in science. If the data is good and complete, we can trust the conclusions that are implied by the curve. If you add some bad data to a science study, the curve will change and conclusions can change and can depart from reality. This is the game played by Fake News. The Russian Collusion Coup had the entire Democrat party leadership and propaganda machine lying; bad data, so their base would draw this bad curve, and then infer and deduce the wrong conclusions. People are vulnerable to bad data, and their own false conclusions, if they feel their own logic was good.

Gossip is similar, but has a subtle difference. Gossip can be true, in full or part, but it often does not tell the whole story. It tends to omit key data to alter the curve. I can truthfully say, to Laurie, I saw her boyfriend Joe, talking to that pretty girl, Jane. Depending how I say this fact or rolled my eyes, I can cause Laurie, to draw the wrong conclusion. On a typed transcript of what I said, it will read harmless; deniability. But in this case, a subtle inflection of my voice or eyes and an omission of other relative data; they are working on a school project as an assigned team, Jane can be made jealous based on her own projected conclusions.

In science, this is like leaving out data or not running some experiments, so the best curve is no longer the correct curve. The censorship of the COVID brain storming was designed to draw the wrong curve by omission of data. It is not technically lying in terms of giving out false data, but it cherry picks the data, to purposely lead to the desired bad conclusions. There are too many lawyers in politics, who know how to play this game, in terms of legal technicalities with facts and omitted facts; lying without technically lying.

In terms of the legal system and truth, has anyone ever noticed that all witnesses at a trial, have to swear to the tell the truth, with lying having the penalty of perjury. However, none of the Lawyers or Judges in any trial, have to swear to tell the truth. This is bizarre, since it is not like Lawyers are the Saints of the professional world. A witness who is Priest, Rabbi or any spiritual leader will need to swear to the tell the whole truth, but the lawyers in the case, do not. Only they are exempt from having to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth. This does not make sense, and maybe needs to be corrected at the ballot box. It seems to me to be a recipe for corruption and an injustice system. A lying judge or lawyer in jail for perjury is only fair if an innocent bystander witness can be jailed for the same thing. This change would alter the legal system, for the better.

Another related legal scam, that has been used, and is now being employed, by Dark Money for a Left Wing civil counter suit, is against a defendant, who had won his criminal case. The tactic is to use this a large team of lawyers to create a legal attack, designed to "out money" a defendant. The Dark money wins by default, the their victim is out money. There is a pending case against Neal Rauhauser, who was the young person, who shot a man in the arm who was pointing a gun at him, during a Lefty riot. Someone in the shadows has chip on their shoulder; set an example.

The Swamp did this to General Flynn. The Swamp used unlimited Government resources, to create a complex criminal case, that needed expensive legal help, until General Flynn went broke, and had to cave to the demands of criminals. This is why we may need a perjury and truth law for lawyers. We can ask were their blood money comes from, and then call in the top level conspirators, who need to tell the truth. If they do not appear, they lied, so go to jail.

Some complex power money cases could put dozens of lawyers in jail in one day. We have too many lawyers in the USA, and a reduction to just the honest ones, would be nice; move away from the injustice system back to a justice system. I would guess this would be consistent with most religious teachings, which may be why Religion is a target to those who practice injustice.

 

[Kenny]

Rahab became one of our most famous converts to the Jewish faith.

As for lying in order to save a life... There is a precept in Judaism called pikuach nefesh which basically instructs us that the saving of a human life takes precedence over every other religious rule in our faith. Even the Sabbath is to be broken if work is required that will save a human life. So, a lie told in order to save a life is certainly an acceptable exception.

If I am not mistaken, that is even codified in law. If, for an example, you crash into a car to save the life of a person that was erroneously walking into the street, they are not charged with ramming a car.

 

[syo]

How seriously does your own religion (or code of behavior) view lying and spreading false accusations against others?

In paganism, people tell whatever they want. This doesn't mean the listeners are obliged to listen to them.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

I don't quite yet have the erudition to answer your question in high definition in regard to the Tarot, which I have been studying for over a year. I guess a number of hints come to mind, when I think about it a little. So I guess in this post, I'm just reviewing how I might start to look for where an answer might start to be constructed

The sword suit is traditionally associated with the mind, and in the mind, there is language and words, that exit the mind and enter the world, and affect the world. I sometimes think of it as the 'suit of tongues,' for the tongue communicates words, and the tongue was placed close in the proximity to the brain.

So therefore, you might indeed look at the ace of swords as being a 'fresh idea' or 'initial idea.' It is the most fanciful, or wild, looking card in the suit. That is because one's 'first idea,' when one thinks of anything to begin with, might not reflect reality. Or it might look better in one's mind than it does in reality. So already there is a seed of possible falsity: of all ideas that there are to be had, some, probably a great amount, are too fantastic to be realistic. But to be fair, some ideas obviously are good

Coming to the two of swords for another quick example, we can easily see how this might have something to do with a divided mind: the mind has two conflicting opinions, in one interpretation of the card

One possibly pessimistic interpretation of the whole suit might be that no one really tells the whole truth, probably because no one really quite can know it. Even the king of swords might end up living with his confusion, in one interpretation: both of his shoulders have different faces on them.

As for the major arcana, we might try to perceive how each of the individual characters might lie and say something false, and I suspect, with each of them being quite unique from the other, each of them might do so in quite a unique way.

And so if a person embodies one of the archetypes in the major arcana, imagining how that archetype 'could speak falsely' might inform the reader, about weaknesses of the archetype

 

[Quintessence]

Being non-creedal, Druidry (and Paganism more broadly) doesn't typically prescribe human behavior in moral terms, but virtue ethics is common. Virtue ethics is more about focusing on the character one cultivates through behavior rather than rigid rules.

What reputation do you want to have in your community? What do you want to be known for, or known as? What virtues do you wish to embody in the relationships you express through your behavior? And at the end of the day, you must accept the consequences of how you manage your relationships regardless of what virtues you embody.

 

[F1fan]

The Swamp did this to General Flynn. The Swamp used unlimited Government resources, to create a complex criminal case, that needed expensive legal help, until General Flynn went broke, and had to cave to the demands of criminals. This is why we may need a perjury and truth law for lawyers. We can ask were their blood money comes from, and then call in the top level conspirators, who need to tell the truth. If they do not appear, they lied, so go to jail.

Flynn committed federal crimes that he was found guilty of doing. Trump pardoned him. What you claim here is inaccurate. Notice you offer no evidence to support your claims, and even suggest a conspiracy theory.

So this brings up a question, is disinformation or misrepresentation of facts in the same category as lying? Or is it part of a type of political discourse that is justifiable to some?

To say the DOJ is the "Swamp" is is surely inaccurate political rhetoric, but can it be considered a lie?

 

[Alien826]

In Judaism, we are taught about a pretty big sin referred to as lashon hara -- which broadly covers negative speech, gossip, the spreading of rumors, and outright lying. I think (though I could be wrong) that the only sort of lie that is maybe permissible is a lie spoken in order to keep peace -- the so-called "white lie" that is not intended to harm anyone. But I sometimes wonder whether the good intentions behind even a white lie can backfire into becoming something genuinely harmful to the very people whom one thought one was protecting.

Just one question here, as I'm sure the subject will be fully covered. I know gossip is considered to be a big deal in Jewish thought (the story of the feather pillow comes to mind). However, a Rabbi of my acquaintance states that gossip is worse if it is true than if it is false. As that seems counter intuitive to me, I wonder if you (or any Jewish contributor) can say if you agree and if so explain the logic behind it?