Where Is Everybody? Where Are The Aliens?

[Subduction Zone]

The Bible hasn't failed. Only to atheist scientists who are usually wrong.

Yes, the universe is flat. Science backs up the Bible as it says it is flat and can be rolled up like a scroll. "And the heavens shall be rolled up like a scroll." Isaiah 34:4. This is contrary to what we observe as we see the universe as thick having width, length and height. What it really means is the space (spacetime?) that holds the stars and other planets is thin.

Creation science hypothesizes that the universe being able to be rolled up means there is another dimension we cannot see for it to be rolled up. It means there is something above the flatness such as another dimension and why I was asking if gravitons were found.

The graviton is escaping to another dimension above the membrane of space. I think we would see it appear and then disappear in the LHC experiment.

Prior to this finding, science backed up the Bible when the universe was found to be expanding and the material of space is like a stretchable fabric under tension. God “stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.”

Now you are merely trying to reinterpret the Bible to fit what little bit of reality you are willing to accept. Plus with another heaping helping of woo woo mixed in. That only tells us that when it comes to either the Bible or reality you can't be consistent. This is not an honest approach to either the Bible or reality.

 

[`mud]

hey Bond,
Sorry....that makes no sense.
Anyway, atheist scientists don't have any different view than believing scientists.
They are first, scientists that study data and facts, like religious scientists.
But in your weird way of thinking, imagination comes to your approach,
the images of transparent idols in the sky, controlling everything and everyone.
Go read some more of your book of fantasy and imagined spooks.
NuffStuff

 

[james bond]

And I call *complete* BS concerning that. First of all, it represents an average rate of expansion of about 1% of the speed of light (the galaxy is about 100,000 light years across). There are *many* reasons to think that is highly unlikely.

1. Currently, our fastest space probes travel at about1/10% of the speed of light. So, even if we could populate the galaxy at a consistent rate of the speed of our probes, it would take 10x longer than this prediction. Faster probes take *much* more energy to launch (each factor of 2 increase of speed requires 4 times as much energy) and resources.

2. It actually takes time to populate a planet. In fact, it would be unreasonable to assume that more than a small amount of time and energy is devoted to actually moving between systems as opposed to figuring out how to live in the systems themselves. Let's face it, a newly colonized planet isn't going to be sending out new colonies immediately. What is the delay between the start of colonization of a planet and when the spread to the next planet occurs? How does that compare to the time it takes to get between planets? It's clear most of the time is going to be spent on planets as opposed to moving between them. That increases the time it takes to spread significantly.

3. Where do the resources come from? Considering what it takes to even start contemplating moving people between planets in *our* solar system, the complexity and risk of moving between systems is thousands of times greater. Considering that most planets and societies will work from a position of limited resources, how much will the economies be devoted to populating the galaxy? Don't forget, this has to be maintained not just through the trip to the new planet, but all resources for colonization have to be either sent (expensive) or developed at the new site (risky and time consuming). Especially for the first several generations on each new planet, the focus is going to be on survival. It won't be for centuries before any new planet is ready to bounce back into space. That again reduces the average speed of moving out into the galaxy.

4. Size of the spaceships. In addition to the energy factors above related to speed, there is also an energy factor regarding size. If you want to send any significant size of population between star systems, the journey will either take thousands of years for those internal to the craft, OR you will have to push to relativistic speeds, which greatly increases the energy expenditure. For example, to get to 86% of the speed of light requires the equivalent amount of energy as in the bomb that destroyed Hiroshima *for each gram of cargo*. Again, the sheer economic factors mean that actual colonization is very unlikely.

So, no, I don't agree with predictions along these lines. They are very much 'back of the envelope' calculations and NOT reasonable because of many obvious factors.

Finally, this is ALL assuming that this species of aliens *lasts* 10 million years. Considering that humans have been around about 150,000 and seem to be about to destroy ourselves after a mere 100 years of radio, why would you assume that such long-lived species are typical?

Far be it for me to argue with YOUR calculations instead of believing in the founder of Space-X's (thinks they are already here?), Fermi's paradox and Drake's equation. Then, it could be that God didn't create any aliens because Adam and Eve were perfect.

It does get me thinking that if paradise existed on Earth, then there would be no reason to be multiplanetary and we were set right here. Moreover, we will not be able to be multiplanetary because our fate is sealed already on Earth as the Bible predicts (prophecizes). Doesn't YOUR calculations back that up, too?

 

[james bond]

Now you are merely trying to reinterpret the Bible to fit what little bit of reality you are willing to accept. Plus with another heaping helping of woo woo mixed in. That only tells us that when it comes to either the Bible or reality you can't be consistent. This is not an honest approach to either the Bible or reality.

When I started on RF, I thought the universe was saddle shaped. The density shapes it. Since then, we found that the universe is flat.

That said, the atheist scientists continue to say the universe is infinite and without any boundaries or borders or center. We will have the James Webb telescope to better scan the outer reaches of the universe and for scientists to add at least 2 billion years to its age it to arund 15.8 billion years. She looks closer to 6,000 years to me. It may as well be called the James Bond telescope because there will be a boundary. A little humor on my part ha ha.

 

[`mud]

Re: Adam and Eve....perfect ?
They were ashamed, and they died !
Maybe they lied also.....what do you think ?

 

[Revoltingest]

I have proof the aliens are here.
It's that we cannot detect their presence as they study us.
As a pre-warp culture, it would violate the Prime Directive
to allow knowledge of them to alter our development.
QED, eh.

 

[`mud]

hey Bond,
Where is the `void` beyond all this `universe`.
What `boundary` does it form to contain this entity ?
Ohhh... the hell with it.....

 

[Revoltingest]

Ohhh... the hell with it.....

True dat.

 

[`mud]

 

[Subduction Zone]

When I started on RF, I thought the universe was saddle shaped. The density shapes it. Since then, we found that the universe is flat.

That said, the atheist scientists continue to say the universe is infinite and without any boundaries or borders or center. We will have the James Webb telescope to better scan the outer reaches of the universe and for scientists to add at least 2 billion years to its age it to arund 15.8 billion years. She looks closer to 6,000 years to me. It may as well be called the James Bond telescope because there will be a boundary. A little humor on my part ha ha.

From what I have seen you have only misinterpreted the sciences at best and are in no place to comment on what others know. Perhaps you could try to learn. The 6,000 year idea was shown to be wrong long before astronomers put an age on the universe.

 

[gnostic]

Most of us know about Drake's Equation when discussing aliens. Yet, even if we acknowledge that Drake did not make his parameters correct in his equation, there has been enough time for SETI to have made extraterrestrial contact or aliens to have made contact with SETI. If there are intelligent alien civilizations and other planets like earth in the universe, then they would have the power to be able to fly and colonize the universe as we would. They should have been here if they possessed superior technology to ours. This lack of contact by extraterrestrials led Dr. Enrico Fermi to suddenly exclaim, "Where is Everybody?" during a lunch he was having with distinguished scientist colleagues in 1961 after a discussion about ETs.

Enough time?

Hardly, jb.

About 43 years before that comment, all astronomers (for centuries since Galileo) assume that the Milky Way was the entire universe, and that there was no other galaxies other than the Milky Way.

It wasn’t until 1919, Edwin Hubble looked through the newly constructed large telescope (Hooker Telescope, 1917) and saw that Andromeda and Triangulum were not mere nebulae within the Milky Way, but separate galaxies...with Andromeda being even larger than our MW, and have even more stars. Hubble confirmed his discovery few years later (1923).

The first parabolic dish radio telescope wasn’t invented until 1937.

Since then, scientists and engineers have been designing and constructing newer radio and optical telescopes, refining their designs over the decades that followed, becoming more powerful.

But our technology are still young, still ongoing.

To think that 50 years as “a long time”, is absurd.

You don’t even understand the magnitude of the distance.

Our nearest spiral galaxy, Andromeda Galaxy, is over 2 million light years away from Earth. That’s how for light to reach here, so what we seeing right now, is actually what AG looks like 2.5 million years ago.

Despite having a clearer image of AG than ever before with Hubble Space Telescope (HST, 1990), there are still limitations as to how much we can see or detect.

And it is the same with radio telescopes, including other space observatory programs, which detect other radio frequencies:

• Cosmic Background Explorer (COBE, 1989)
• Compton Gamma Ray Observatory (CGRO, 1991)
• Chandra X-ray Observatory (1999)
• Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP, 2001)
• Spitzer Space Telescope (SST, 2003)
• Planck (2009)

Even within our own MW, our current technology don’t allow us to observe much, even the planets of our nearest star system (Alpha Centauri, has 3 stars), which is mere 4.3 light years away.

The points, is that even we have learn much about the universe, it is still a tiny fraction of what is really out there.

Whether there is life outside of Earth, it is a matter of been able to wait and learn, because our current technology is still young.

And nothing you have said, prove God’s existence in any way.

 

[Darkstorn]

It may as well be called the James Bond telescope because there will be a boundary. A little humor on my part ha ha.

Uh... I think your posts have enough unintentional humor in them to begin with.

In fact for a few seconds I thought you were actually going to be serious for once.

 

[jonathan180iq]

And now for some levity...

 

[Mock Turtle]

I've (mostly) always held the view that space and time are just too vast, and the lifespans of any possible civilisations just not predictable, so as for us not to have contact with any alien life - of the intelligent sort. And this might support this:

Here's The Mind-Boggling Reason We Probably Won't Meet Aliens While They're Still Alive

 

[Mock Turtle]

hey Bond,
Where is the `void` beyond all this `universe`.
What `boundary` does it form to contain this entity ?
Ohhh... the hell with it.....

That's the bit that does my head in - where does the whole of reality (the universe) actually exist?

 

[DaniëlT]

Where are they? Yeah, well where are we? Technically we are all aliens to someone somewhere. Why can't we be the aliens?
Perhaps our problems are their problems too. Why don't we start with simple laser signals.

 

[Woberts]

You know what would be pretty cool? If we were then 'aliens' and we found a primitive species which we then uplifted to maybe early 20th century technology.

 

[`mud]

Isn't this the twenty first century ?

 

[JustWondering]

One of my arguments for evidence of God is aliens or the lack of extraterrestrial life. In other words, the Bible does not state that God created aliens.

Most of us know about Drake's Equation when discussing aliens. Yet, even if we acknowledge that Drake did not make his parameters correct in his equation, there has been enough time for SETI to have made extraterrestrial contact or aliens to have made contact with SETI. If there are intelligent alien civilizations and other planets like earth in the universe, then they would have the power to be able to fly and colonize the universe as we would. They should have been here if they possessed superior technology to ours. This lack of contact by extraterrestrials led Dr. Enrico Fermi to suddenly exclaim, "Where is Everybody?" during a lunch he was having with distinguished scientist colleagues in 1961 after a discussion about ETs.

A Numerical Testbed for Hypotheses of Extraterrestrial Life and Intelligence
[0810.2222] A Numerical Testbed for Hypotheses of Extraterrestrial Life and Intelligence

"Our Galaxy Should Be Teeming With Civilizations, But Where Are They?

Is there obvious proof that we could be alone in the Galaxy? Enrico Fermi thought so -- and he was a pretty smart guy. Might he have been right?

It's been a hundred years since Fermi, an icon of physics, was born (and nearly a half-century since he died). He's best remembered for building a working atomic reactor in a squash court. But in 1950, Fermi made a seemingly innocuous lunchtime remark that has caught and held the attention of every SETI researcher since. (How many luncheon quips have you made with similar consequence?)

The remark came while Fermi was discussing with his mealtime mates the possibility that many sophisticated societies populate the Galaxy. They thought it reasonable to assume that we have a lot of cosmic company. But somewhere between one sentence and the next, Fermi's supple brain realized that if this was true, it implied something profound. If there are really a lot of alien societies, then some of them might have spread out.

Fermi realized that any civilization with a modest amount of rocket technology and an immodest amount of imperial incentive could rapidly colonize the entire Galaxy. Within ten million years, every star system could be brought under the wing of empire. Ten million years may sound long, but in fact it's quite short compared with the age of the Galaxy, which is roughly ten thousand million years. Colonization of the Milky Way should be a quick exercise.

So what Fermi immediately realized was that the aliens have had more than enough time to pepper the Galaxy with their presence. But looking around, he didn't see any clear indication that they're out and about. This prompted Fermi to ask what was (to him) an obvious question: "where is everybody?"

Fermi Paradox | SETI Institute

Thus, the Fermi Paradox provides more evidence of God.

In addition to this, we have found that fine tuning prohibits life on other planets unless they are finely tuned like earth. Has there been experiments done where they take earth creatures to see if they can survive on the moon? We already know they can survive in outer space, but can they survive and thrive on the moon? If they can't, then it's more evidence for the fine tuning theory.

 

[Mock Turtle]

That looks like an insect in the visual system to me (presuming it was some sort of display) - not moving enough (even if the system was fully locked on to it, as there often is some jitter involved), and the object rotating a little almost confirms this. My theory at least. I had a similar small bug in one of my cameras - little bleeder, and very difficult to remove!