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Where is God when awful things happen?

There's so much evil garbage that happens every day all over the world and my biggest question is where God is when any of this stuff happens. Does God just not care? If the Abrahamic view of God is true, then he has the ability to make it all stop and to, essentially, remove evil from all of existence, but instead God chooses to let evil run rampant and lets unspeakable things happen to babies, children, the elderly, and good people. Why would any loving and merciful God allow for any wicked thing you can think of to exist in his world? No matter how I look at it, it just doesn't make any sense to me and the question puts me that much closer to being an atheist.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
There's so much evil garbage that happens every day all over the world and my biggest question is where God is when any of this stuff happens. Does God just not care? If the Abrahamic view of God is true, then he has the ability to make it all stop and to, essentially, remove evil from all of existence, but instead God chooses to let evil run rampant and lets unspeakable things happen to babies, children, the elderly, and good people. Why would any loving and merciful God allow for any wicked thing you can think of to exist in his world? No matter how I look at it, it just doesn't make any sense to me and the question puts me that much closer to being an atheist.

There are very good reasons for why God does what he does, the way he does it.

First of all, he created everything perfect and provided all that humans would ever need to live a long, happy and healthy life. Even though he created them to be mortal, he provided the means for them to live forever in paradise conditions...."the tree of life".

The precious gift of free will was intended to make life more individual as they exercised their choices in so many ways. No other creature on earth was given free will except humans. It was what made them like God.

But another free willed being came on the scene and challenged, not only the Creator's sovereignty (his right to set the rules) but also his integrity, (his character) virtually calling him a liar and accusing him of being a lousy father and keeping something from his children that they had a right to know. The humans believed him, and plunged the whole human race into chaos...eventually bringing the sentence of death upon themselves, as they were warned. Now genetically impaired, they passed on their defect to all their children.

God had two options in this scenario....either eliminate the rebels and be faced with other free willed creatures who might raise the same issue again....or allow the rebellion to play out naturally, allowing humanity and the angels to see where their rebellion would take them. And here we are.....God could not interfere too much or else the lesson would be lost. They had to be left to their own devices under the influence of the god and ruler they had chosen. He was a harsh and unloving god as they would soon see.

All human suffering is caused by other humans exercising their free will in the wrong way. But please remember that God can undo all of it.....he can even reverse death.

Once the precedents are set and humans have proven that they cannot rule themselves successfully without God, despite all their advances in technology, the Creator will take the faithful ones back to his intended, original conditions.

The first rebel and all who follow him in his ungodly course will be eliminated from existence, and all will be as it was first intended, with no excuse to abuse free will ever again. I personally think the strategy is brilliant.

Who knows what God has in store for the human race? It's a big universe.....so whatever it is....I just know that it will be awesome.
bliss.gif
 

VeryGoodTruth

New Member
There's so much evil garbage that happens every day all over the world and my biggest question is where God is when any of this stuff happens. Does God just not care? If the Abrahamic view of God is true, then he has the ability to make it all stop and to, essentially, remove evil from all of existence, but instead God chooses to let evil run rampant and lets unspeakable things happen to babies, children, the elderly, and good people. Why would any loving and merciful God allow for any wicked thing you can think of to exist in his world? No matter how I look at it, it just doesn't make any sense to me and the question puts me that much closer to being an atheist.

Freedom is a Gift which is way above imposition. If God would have imposed a world where wrong doing is impossible, it would mean that He imposed something and therefore removes Freedom from all Beings. He would have created a world where we would be His slaves.

Freedom is necessary to grow from the original ignorance of a spirit to a greater understanding of the Truth through the experience process. Otherwise no growth would be possible.

The foot needs the ground existence to lift the body, its the same about wrong doings, the spirits needs to be able to do wrong decisions to learn from the mistakes and lift the soul to higher spiritual planes. Even birds need the be on the ground before starting to fly.

We can see also a parallel in humans, about their kids : do you think that it would work, imposing what to do to kids, and never allowing them to even think about making a mistake ? It would be impossible, because we are not in their mind, because they have freedom of thinking. It's even advised to give them enough freedom for them to experiment what's right from wrong, and explain them our point of view without imposing it. Because that is the best way to bring them into understanding what's good for them, and understanding is better than blindly following orders.

Also, from our short life point of view, we can feel there is injustice in this world, but we don't know what happens to those who do bad things in purpose, evil actions, what God has reserved for them in the afterlife, or even in this one, what those actions would bring them back. It's like a boomerang, we might see the boomerang go and hit you in our lifetime, but we may not see what will happen when it comes back.

We think evil persons don't get punished because we only look through our short life span, and think that's all that exists, but the soul is said to go from one life to another, and there is for sure, in my opinion, an adequate punishment for each wrong action and each evil person will get what he deserves in this life or after death. Unless they change their minds, and go back to being good souls, then their punishment may be removed, because it means they joined the right path again, and as such they are forgiven, I believe in this strongly because that's real Justice.

I think also that if we are cautious enough to observe the world as it is, we will see that there is much more goodness than evil in this world, we will see that every animal is happy to exist when they eat, when they run free, etc, lot of humans are happy most of their life too, to have good food also, to have good moments, to feel love, and overall the world is more good than evil, of course because otherwise it would have destroyed itself already for a long time !

Light always prevails above darkness, because Light is what really exists, darkness is only the absence of Light.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
There's so much evil garbage that happens every day all over the world and my biggest question is where God is when any of this stuff happens. Does God just not care? If the Abrahamic view of God is true, then he has the ability to make it all stop and to, essentially, remove evil from all of existence, but instead God chooses to let evil run rampant and lets unspeakable things happen to babies, children, the elderly, and good people. Why would any loving and merciful God allow for any wicked thing you can think of to exist in his world? No matter how I look at it, it just doesn't make any sense to me and the question puts me that much closer to being an atheist.
There are other concepts of God other than what "Abrahamics" have, just saying.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
There's so much evil garbage that happens every day all over the world and my biggest question is where God is when any of this stuff happens. Does God just not care? If the Abrahamic view of God is true, then he has the ability to make it all stop and to, essentially, remove evil from all of existence, but instead God chooses to let evil run rampant and lets unspeakable things happen to babies, children, the elderly, and good people. Why would any loving and merciful God allow for any wicked thing you can think of to exist in his world? No matter how I look at it, it just doesn't make any sense to me and the question puts me that much closer to being an atheist.
Why are you allowing centuries old goat herders to define "God" for you? Why do you assume that God can stop "bad stuff from happening"? Or that God should? How could existence be "all good, all the time"? Would we really even want that if we could get it?

And do you really want an answer to these questions? Because it seems to me that one of the greatest things about my being human is NOT having the answers to questions like these. What would even be the point of my existing, in the form that I do, if I had all these answers?
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
All human suffering is caused by other humans exercising their free will in the wrong way.

This strikes me as a rather interesting statement. It seems to describe a lot of cases of human suffering. e.g. when one human murders, rapes, or tortures another human. But there also seem to be a lot of cases that your statement does not describe. For instance, when a poisonous animal bites someone and they suffer, perhaps even die because of it. Or when suffers and perhaps even dies from a disease. So I'm wondering how you would explain those cases in such a way that your statement, " All human suffering is caused by other humans exercising their free will in the wrong way." was true?
 

Gharib

I want Khilafah back
There's so much evil garbage that happens every day all over the world and my biggest question is where God is when any of this stuff happens. Does God just not care? If the Abrahamic view of God is true, then he has the ability to make it all stop and to, essentially, remove evil from all of existence, but instead God chooses to let evil run rampant and lets unspeakable things happen to babies, children, the elderly, and good people. Why would any loving and merciful God allow for any wicked thing you can think of to exist in his world? No matter how I look at it, it just doesn't make any sense to me and the question puts me that much closer to being an atheist.

I think it is a mistake that people somehow think this life is meant to be without problems if taking into consideration that we are here temporarily and have the option to choose right drom wrong. People have egos, dreams, desires and this is what at times drives goodnes and at time evil.

If God is going to be 'judged' by the teachings of a specific faith group then all angles should be tsken into consideration, that we are here to be tested and that a final judgment awaits us where those who do good are rewarded those who do evil get punished.

From an Islamic perspective a person is required to seek the wisdom behind all things that happen. For example why are innocent people murdered. One view could be that they go through suffering and pain only so that they can attain the highest reward in the hearfter. While on the other hand, he who causes such pain and sufering is testifying against himself for why he deserves the everlasting punishment he will get.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
This strikes me as a rather interesting statement. It seems to describe a lot of cases of human suffering. e.g. when one human murders, rapes, or tortures another human. But there also seem to be a lot of cases that your statement does not describe. For instance, when a poisonous animal bites someone and they suffer, perhaps even die because of it. Or when suffers and perhaps even dies from a disease. So I'm wondering how you would explain those cases in such a way that your statement, " All human suffering is caused by other humans exercising their free will in the wrong way." was true?

It seems to me as if everything is out of kilter in a world ruled by the devil. (1 John 5:19)
Were these creatures ever harmful to humans to begin with? Might the devil be able to alter animal behavior? Sometimes you have to wonder......We don't really know how much influence he has in the animal kingdom. All we know is that in the world to come God promises....

Isaiah 11:6-9
"The wolf will reside for a while with the lamb,
And with the young goat the leopard will lie down,
And the calf and the lion and the fattened animal will all be together;*
And a little boy will lead them.
7 The cow and the bear will feed together,
And their young will lie down together.
The lion will eat straw like the bull.
8 The nursing child will play over the lair of a cobra,
And a weaned child will put his hand over the den of a poisonous snake.
9 They will not cause any harm
Or any ruin in all my holy mountain,
Because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah
As the waters cover the sea.



Isaiah 65:25
"The wolf and the lamb will feed together,
The lion will eat straw just like the bull,
And the serpent’s food will be dust.
They will do no harm nor cause any ruin in all my holy mountain,”says Jehovah."


God promises that no animals will do harm to us or each other. That sounds more like it.

And if our immune systems are designed to keep us well, then no harm would have come to us from diseases or viruses or bacteria either. "Sin" is simply the loss of perfection, which allows our bodies to work less efficiently than what they were designed to do. No one can deny that our bodies are wonderfully designed and if they worked at a peak level then we would never succumb to disease, aging or death. Sounds about right to me. :)
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
See List of Natural Disasters by Death Toll

(Try not to get so caught up in your turgid apologetics that you forget to think.)

Natural disasters were not suppose to happen either. But it isn't something you can blame on another human....unless of course these "natural disasters" are not natural at all? :shrug: Perhaps they are the work of God's adversary too?

Jesus demonstrated his power over nature, so as king over this earth, he will see to it that no "natural" disasters ever take place. Only Christians believe that I know.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
There's so much evil garbage that happens every day all over the world and my biggest question is where God is when any of this stuff happens. Does God just not care? If the Abrahamic view of God is true, then he has the ability to make it all stop and to, essentially, remove evil from all of existence, but instead God chooses to let evil run rampant and lets unspeakable things happen to babies, children, the elderly, and good people. Why would any loving and merciful God allow for any wicked thing you can think of to exist in his world? No matter how I look at it, it just doesn't make any sense to me and the question puts me that much closer to being an atheist.

He does help. He sends an Educator from age to age with counsels and guidance to assist us. If we refuse this advice and go our own way then end up in a mess we should realize that it's completely reversible by turning back to God and following His counsels of loving one another.

The world is the way it is because we have thrown away God's counsels, no matter which Faith, to love one another and chosen a path of destruction and greed instead. But the process is completely reversible if we turn back to God's ways of love and kindness to one and all. The choice is ours. It always has been.

There's no magic wand. We have to make the effort if we want a better world. That's the reality.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
There's so much evil garbage that happens every day all over the world and my biggest question is where God is when any of this stuff happens. Does God just not care? [...] No matter how I look at it, it just doesn't make any sense to me and the question puts me that much closer to being an atheist.
As you may know, Epicurus (Epikouros, Greek, 4th cent. BCE) is said to have said something like this ─

Is god willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.

Is god both able and willing?
Then where does evil come from?

Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him god?
On the other hand the 13th cent RCC theologian Thomas Aquinas proposed that God wants humans to have freewill, and therefore he does not interfere with the exercise of that freewill or its consequences.

You'll immediately have thought, Hey, that doesn't cover tornadoes or tsunamis or droughts or ... And then you'll have thought, Hey, it's all very well for the murderer to have freewill, what about the freewill of the victim? And you've already thought, in the face of the Holocaust, that explanation is sheer nonsense.

So it doesn't explain anything, but I mention it because it's the most popular rationale I know of.

To my observation, the world behaves exactly as if the only place gods exist is in human imagination.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
This is what I believe, when God created mankind, He gave us authority and dominion over the earth and everything in the earth (Genesis 1:26-28). Even tho Adam handed rule of the earth over to satan, mankind still holds the lease of the earth (Psalms 115:16) and can still take control back. But there are very, very few Christians who believe this, that's why there are natural disasters.

As for the evil that people do, I believe it is because mankind deals with it on a human level, not the core problem (Eph. 6:10-20) People can't wrap their minds around things Jesus said we will or can do in His name in the Bible, so they write it off as not valid for today. Jesus said,

Mark 16:15-18 (ESV Strong's) 15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

most people who believe in God and the Bible, write those verse off as Jesus meaning just the select few He appointed, and when the last Apostle died, the signs died also. Jesus said. "go into ALL the world, preach to the WHOLE creation" and these signs will accompany those who BELIEVE what is preached to them. 'Christians' don't believe it because they don't have faith, so they write it off. Some people believe the first part, we are to preach to the whole world, but they don't believe the part about the signs following. Pretty sad really, Christians picking and choosing what to believe on the grounds of what makes sense to them. If it doesn't make sense, or they have never witnessed it, they won't believe it. Most Christians have Thomas', mentality, "unless I see...I won't believe".
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Is god willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.

Is god both able and willing?
Then where does evil come from?

Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him god?​
Because God is God, and we are not.

You demand that God be comprehensible to you. But why do you assume that should this be so?​
 
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