Where is God...Where is Jesus now?

[InvestigateTruth]

If we take this verse to mean, God took Jesus up to Himself, then it means Jesus is with God:

"Nay! God exalted him to Himself. And God had been Almighty, Wise" 4:158


Now, if we know where God, Himself is, we can also know where Jesus is.

So, let's look at the verses about where God is:


"Indeed, ˹it is˺ We ˹Who˺ created humankind and ˹fully˺ know what their souls whisper to them, and We are closer to them than ˹their˺ jugular vein." 50:16

According to this verse, God is closer than our Jugular vein to us.

This, has to mean, Allah is inside us, for, if Allah was outside of us, He would be farther to us than our jugular vein!


Now, you might say, Allah is not here, He is Up there ۸


Get this: Narrated by al-Bukhari (750) from Anas ibn Maalik (may Allah be pleased with him), who said: The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “What is the matter with people who lift their gaze to heaven whilst praying?” And he spoke sternly concerning that, until he said: “They should stop that, or else their eyesight will be snatched away”

There is also a Hadith Ghodsi:

ما وسعني أرضي ولا سمائي، ووسعني قلب عبدي المؤمن…

“Neither My Earth nor My Heavens could contain Me, whilst the heart of My believing servant does contain Me…”




Are you lost or you are following? Where is Jesus now?!

 

[Link]

Salam


في الفقيه عن السجاد عليه السلام ان لله بقاعاً في سمواته فمن عرج به إلى بقعة منها فقد عرج به إليه ألا تسمع الله يقول في قصة عيسى بن مريم بل رفعه الله إليه.

In Al-Faqih, on the authority of Al-Sajjad, peace be upon him, that God has places in His heavens, and whoever is taken up to one of them has taken him up to Him. Do you not hear God say in the story of Jesus, son of Mary? Rather, God raised him to Him.


القمّي رفع وعليه مدرعة من صوف.

والعياشي عن الصادق عليه السلام قال رفع عيسى بن مريم بمدرعة صوف من غزل مريم ومن نسج مريم ومن خياطة مريم فلما انتهى إلى السماء نودي يا عيسى الق عنك زينة الدنيا.


l-Ayyashi, on the authority of Al-Sadiq, peace be upon him, said that Jesus, son of Mary, was raised in an armor of wool from Mary’s spinning, from Mary’s weaving, and from Mary’s sewing. When he reached heaven, he was called out, “O Jesus, cast away the adornments of the world.”


وفي الإِكمال عن النبي صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلم أن عيسى بن مريم أتى إلى بيت المقدس فمكث يدعوهم ويرغبهم فيما عند الله ثلاثة وثلاثين سنة حتى طلبته اليهود وادعت أنها عذبته ودفنته في الأرض حياً وادعى بعضهم أنهم قتلوه وصلبوه وما كان الله ليجعل لهم سلطاناً عليه وإنما شبه لهم وما قدروا على عذابه ودفنه ولا على قتله وصلبه لأنهم لو قدروا على ذلك لكان تكذيباً لقوله ولكن رفعه الله إليه بعد أن توفاه وقد سبق صدر هذا الحديث في سورة آل عمران { وَكَانَ اللهُ عَزِيزاً } لا يغلب على ما يريده { حَكِيماً } فبما دبر لعباده.

And ibn Akmal, on the authority of the Prophet, may God’s prayers and peace be upon him and his family, that Jesus, son of Mary, came to the Holy House and remained calling upon them and desiring what was with God for thirty-three years until the Jews sought him and claimed that they had tortured him and buried him alive in the ground, and some of them claimed that they had killed him and crucified him, and God would not give them authority over him, but rather a semblance of They were not able to torture him and bury him, nor to kill him and crucify him, because if they were able to do that, it would be a disbelief to his statement, but God raised him to Him after He was taken upon himself. This hadith was previously mentioned in Surat Al Imran {And God is All-mighty} He does not prevail over what He wills {Wise} so in what He has planned for His servants. .

{ (159) وَإِنْ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَابِ إلاَّ لَيُؤْمِنَنَّ بِهِ قَبْلَ مَوْتِهِ } قيل يعني ما من اليهود والنصارى أحد إِلا ليؤمنن بأن عيسى عليه السلام عبد الله ورسوله قبل أن يموت ولو حين تزهق روحه ولا ينفعه أيمانه وبه رواية عنهم عليهم السلام { وَيَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ يَكُونُ عَلَيْهِمْ شَهِيداً } فيشهد على اليهود بالتكذيب وعلى النصارى بأنهم دعوه ابن الله.

{(159) And there is not one of the People of the Book except that he will believe in him before his death} It was said that there is no one among the Jews and Christians except that he will believe that Jesus, peace be upon him, is the servant of God and His Messenger before he dies, even when his soul is lost and his faith does not benefit him, and there is a narration about him, peace be upon them, and on the day he is resurrected that he will be upon them a witness} so he testifies against the Jews as a liar and against the Christians that they called him the Son of God.




والقمّي عن شهر بن حوشب قال قال لي الحجاج يا شهر آية في كتاب الله قد أعيتني فقلت أيها الأمير أية آية هي فقال وان من أهل الكتاب إلا ليؤمنن به قبل موته والله لأني أمر باليهود والنصراني فيضرب عنقه ثم أرمقه بعيني فما آراه يحرك شفتيه حتى يخمد فقلت أصلح الله الأمير ليس على ما تأولت قال كيف هو قلت إن عيسى عليه السلام ينزل قبل يوم القيامة إلى الدنيا فلا يبقى أهل ملة يهودي ولا غيره إلا آمن به قبل موته ويصلي خلف المهدي عليه السلام قال ويحك أنى لك هذا ومن أين جئت به فقلت حدثني به محمد بن عليّ بن الحسين بن علي بن أبي طالب صلوات الله عليهم فقال جئت بها من عين صافية.


And Al-Qummi, on the authority of Shahr ibn Hawshab, said: Al-Hajjaj said to me, “O Shahr, a verse in the Book of God has given me trouble.” So I said, “O Prince, what verse is it?” He said, “And none of the People of the Book will believe in him before his death. By God, because I command the Jews and the Christians to behead him, then I look at him with my eyes, and I do not see him move his lips until he subsides,” so I said. May God correct the prince, not as I interpreted. He said, “How is he?” I said, “Jesus, peace be upon him, will descend before the Day of Resurrection into this world, and there will remain no people of the religion of a Jew or anyone else except who will believe in him before his death and pray behind the Mahdi, peace be upon him.” He said, “Woe to you, how did you get this and where did you get it from?” So I said, “Tell me about it.” Muhammad bin Ali bin Al-Hussein bin Ali bin Abi Talib, may God’s prayers be upon them. He said, “I brought it from a pure spring.”


قال القمي وروي أن رسول الله صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلم إذا رجع آمن به الناس كلهم.

Al-Qummi said there is narration from the Messenger of God (peace be upon him and his family and bless) if he comes back, all people will believe in him.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

قال القمي وروي أن رسول الله صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلم إذا رجع آمن به الناس كلهم.

Al-Qummi said there is narration from the Messenger of God (peace be upon him and his family and bless) if he comes back, all people will believe in him.

There is another Hadith in Bihar, Vol 52-3, which says the opposite:

Amirul Momineen (a.s.) used to say:

“Muddaththir will be there during the period of Rajat.
Someone asked: O Amirul Momineen (a.s.), is there a second life before
Qiyamat? And then death after that?
He replied: Yes, by Allah, during the period of Rajat there would be more disbelief.”

This is the verse that comfirms the Hadith:

"Say, "My Lord has commanded righteousness." Face Him, and direct your worship straight to Him. Call on Him, devoting yourself only to Him.

As He originated you (so) will you return."; a group be guided and a group be justly misguided;

Indeed, they take the devils (as) allies from besides Allah while they think that they (are the) guided-ones."
Quran, 7:29-30

قُلۡ أَمَرَ رَبِّی بِٱلۡقِسۡطِۖ وَأَقِیمُوا۟ وُجُوهَكُمۡ عِندَ كُلِّ مَسۡجِدࣲ وَٱدۡعُوهُ مُخۡلِصِینَ لَهُ ٱلدِّینَۚ
كَمَا بَدَأَكُمۡ تَعُودُونَ
فَرِیقًا هَدَىٰ وَفَرِیقًا حَقَّ عَلَیۡهِمُ ٱلضَّلَـٰلَةُ
إِنَّهُمُ ٱتَّخَذُوا۟ ٱلشَّیَـٰطِینَ أَوۡلِیَاۤءَ مِن دُونِ ٱللَّهِ وَیَحۡسَبُونَ أَنَّهُم مُّهۡتَدُونَ​

 

[Link]

The translations of the verse is horrible. But I don't care about that. Can you show the full hadith in Arabic?

 

[Jimmy]

God is everywhere stretching to infinity. Jesus is on earth.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

The translations of the verse is horrible.

Why?

But I don't care about that.

I think you should care more about the Quran than Hadith.

Remember, the Hadith of Thaghalayn?

Can you show the full hadith in Arabic?

١١ ـ خص : بهذا الاسناد ، عن أبي جعفر 7 أن أمير المؤمنين صلوات الله عليه كان يقول : إن المدثر هو كائن عند الرجعة فقال له رجل : يا أمير المؤمنين أحياة قبل القيامة ثم موت؟ قال : فقال له عند ذلك : نعم والله لكفرة من الكفر بعد الرجعة أشد من كفرات قبلها

بحار الأنوار - ط دارالاحیاء التراث - العلامة المجلسي - کتابخانه مدرسه فقاهت

lib.eshia.ir

So according to this Hadith after Rajat, there will be disbelief after disbelief, even much more than before Rajat.

So, your idea that after the Qaim and Chist comes, everyone becomes a believer, falls flat.

What will it be?

Will you ignore this Hadith as well? It must be a false Hadith, ha?

 

[Link]

Why?




I think you should care more about the Quran than Hadith.

Remember, the Hadith of Thaghalayn?




١١ ـ خص : بهذا الاسناد ، عن أبي جعفر 7 أن أمير المؤمنين صلوات الله عليه كان يقول : إن المدثر هو كائن عند الرجعة فقال له رجل : يا أمير المؤمنين أحياة قبل القيامة ثم موت؟ قال : فقال له عند ذلك : نعم والله لكفرة من الكفر بعد الرجعة أشد من كفرات قبلها

بحار الأنوار - ط دارالاحیاء التراث - العلامة المجلسي - کتابخانه مدرسه فقاهت

lib.eshia.ir

So according to this Hadith after Rajat, there will be disbelief after disbelief, even much more than before Rajat.

So, your idea that after the Qaim and Chist comes, everyone becomes a believer, falls flat.

What will it be?

Will you ignore this Hadith as well? It must be a false Hadith, ha?

Salam

You mistranslated the hadith. It's more that if a disbeliever exists, there disbelief would be more severe. This is because of the signs at that time are more evident. It doesn't say there will be more disbelief.

Quran describes empty sets for example regarding Prophets of God, "and whoever says I am a god besides...", while none of them would say it. So saying a disbelievers disbelief would be more severe, doesn't mean, there will be disbelievers. It's showing if anyone disbelieves at that time, their disbelief would much more arrogant towards proofs.

 

[Jimmy]

On earth

 

[B-psychedelic]

If we take this verse to mean, God took Jesus up to Himself, then it means Jesus is with God:

"Nay! God exalted him to Himself. And God had been Almighty, Wise" 4:158


Now, if we know where God, Himself is, we can also know where Jesus is.

So, let's look at the verses about where God is:


"Indeed, ˹it is˺ We ˹Who˺ created humankind and ˹fully˺ know what their souls whisper to them, and We are closer to them than ˹their˺ jugular vein." 50:16

According to this verse, God is closer than our Jugular vein to us.

This, has to mean, Allah is inside us, for, if Allah was outside of us, He would be farther to us than our jugular vein!


Now, you might say, Allah is not here, He is Up there ۸


Get this: Narrated by al-Bukhari (750) from Anas ibn Maalik (may Allah be pleased with him), who said: The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “What is the matter with people who lift their gaze to heaven whilst praying?” And he spoke sternly concerning that, until he said: “They should stop that, or else their eyesight will be snatched away”

There is also a Hadith Ghodsi:

ما وسعني أرضي ولا سمائي، ووسعني قلب عبدي المؤمن…

“Neither My Earth nor My Heavens could contain Me, whilst the heart of My believing servant does contain Me…”




Are you lost or you are following? Where is Jesus now?!

Christ Jesus is Lord indeed!
Before I answer, let me ask two questions;
1. If I get what you are saying, God is closer to us than our jugular vein hence He dwells in us. Does that warrant you to say therefore his ultimate dwelling place is within us? Don't misrepresent the omnipresence attribute of God because even Revelation 3:20 says that about Jesus Christ .
2. Where was God's dwelling place before the creation of mankind?
The source you used to justify your claims is questionable hence I am not surprised of your point. In accordance to the Bible, God is enthroned outside time itself. I will tell you why,
a) It is believed that God doesn't make mistakes and therefore if any document that makes the claim that it's the Divine word(word for word) of God, yet is proven otherwise can not be reliable. Example; (Q 16:66), (Fath al-Bari Volume-13, Page-437 by Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani Grade-Hassan)
b) On the other hand the source I used(The Bible) does not claim to be the Divine word(word for word) of God, but is inspired of God. Meaning the message is the main idea pointed by the words used.

If then God Dwells in a place out of time, then wherever he is, Christ Jesus is there with him.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Christ Jesus is Lord indeed!
Before I answer, let me ask two questions;
1. If I get what you are saying, God is closer to us than our jugular vein hence He dwells in us. Does that warrant you to say therefore his ultimate dwelling place is within us? Don't misrepresent the omnipresence attribute of God because even Revelation 3:20 says that about Jesus Christ .
2. Where was God's dwelling place before the creation of mankind?
The source you used to justify your claims is questionable hence I am not surprised of your point. In accordance to the Bible, God is enthroned outside time itself. I will tell you why,
a) It is believed that God doesn't make mistakes and therefore if any document that makes the claim that it's the Divine word(word for word) of God, yet is proven otherwise can not be reliable. Example; (Q 16:66), (Fath al-Bari Volume-13, Page-437 by Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani Grade-Hassan)
b) On the other hand the source I used(The Bible) does not claim to be the Divine word(word for word) of God, but is inspired of God. Meaning the message is the main idea pointed by the words used.

If then God Dwells in a place out of time, then wherever he is, Christ Jesus is there with him.

Jesus said, I am in you and you are me. I am in the Father and the Father in Me.

 

[Balthazzar]

If God is the substance from where all things originate, then neither God nor Jesus ever left that place of existence. If God is not that substance, then from where did all things originate? My tradition teaches that we live and move and have our being in God.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Salam

You mistranslated the hadith. It's more that if a disbeliever exists, there disbelief would be more severe. This is because of the signs at that time are more evident. It doesn't say there will be more disbelief.

It does not say, if someone was a disbeliever, after Rajat, that person becomes a more severe disbeliever. You are reading more than what it says.
It is talking about the conditions of People's belief after Rajat.

even if we accept your interpretation, still shows there is more sever disbeliefs. So, again your idea that everyone becomes a believer after Qaim comes, falls flat.

(though I am pretty sure, you are misunderstanding the Hadith, or interpreiing it the way you want, but even then still, you idea falls flat.

Quran describes empty sets for example regarding Prophets of God, "and whoever says I am a god besides...", while none of them would say it. So saying a disbelievers disbelief would be more severe, doesn't mean, there will be disbelievers. It's showing if anyone disbelieves at that time, their disbelief would much more arrogant towards proofs.

All I see, is you try to find a way to scape from what that Hadith says.

It says "Disbelief after Rajat is more severe than disbelief before it"

Now, you are saying, after Rajat, there is no disbelief even. And to justify your idea, you come up with some explanation that is from your own imagination.

Have you seen Hadithes that, the Qaim would be imprisoned and His followers are killed and their heads are severed?

 

[B-psychedelic]

Jesus said, I am in you and you are me. I am in the Father and the Father in Me.

1. We are not talking about the Omnipresence attribute of The Father and The Son.
2. This doesn't answer the question, "Where was God's dwelling place before the creation of mankind?"
so again, where did God raise Jesus to?

 

[Link]

It says "Disbelief after Rajat is more severe than disbelief before it"

Now, you are saying, after Rajat, there is no disbelief even. And to justify your idea, you come up with some explanation that is from your own imagination.

Have you seen Hadithes that, the Qaim would be imprisoned and His followers are killed and their heads are severed?

It says "Disbelief from a disbeliever after Rajat is more severe then disbelief before it". Why do you leave that "of a disbeliever"?

Because you know the impression is saying if a disbeliever disbelieves, it's a whole lot worse. It's not that more of it is happening.

The hadith is neutral if there is disbelievers or not. I already shown how Quran can describe an empty set for the sake of showing severity of if it happens. For example Prophets claiming to be gods to be worshiped. So for to know if there is more disbelief or not, we have to see Quran and hadiths. And Quran shows all people of the book will believe in Isa (a) before his death and the hadiths show no disbelief will remain after the victory of the Mahdi (a). Not everyone will believe as soon as Mahdi (a) appears. But after the victory, there won't be disbelief.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

It says "Disbelief from a disbeliever after Rajat is more severe then disbelief before it". Why do you leave that "of a disbeliever"?

Because you know the impression is saying if a disbeliever disbelieves, it's a whole lot worse. It's not that more of it is happening.

The hadith is neutral if there is disbelievers or not. I already shown how Quran can describe an empty set for the sake of showing severity of if it happens. For example Prophets claiming to be gods to be worshiped. So for to know if there is more disbelief or not, we have to see Quran and hadiths. And Quran shows all people of the book will believe in Isa (a) before his death and the hadiths show no disbelief will remain after the victory of the Mahdi (a). Not everyone will believe as soon as Mahdi (a) appears. But after the victory, there won't be disbelief.

Let me ask you a couple question about the Hadith first.

Amirul Momineen (a.s.) used to say:

I quote the Hadith again.
The first part of Hadith is:

“Someone asked: O Amirul Momineen (a.s.), is there life before Resurrection, and then death after that?"

Question 1. What is the "life" before Resurrection that, he is referring?
What "death" is he talking about it, in the context of the Hadith?

Question 2: how does this person know that there is a life before Qiyamat and then a death after it?
Where did he get this knowledge from?
Do you know?


Now, notice carefully about what Ali answered:

"He replied: Yes, by Allah, disbelief after the Rajat is more severe than disbelief before it."

Question 3. Here the person asking Ali about life and death related to before Qiyamat and Ali replys "yes", but immediately after He replies yes, it appeas as if He is changing the topic. Now, He talks about "disbelief". How does the question about Life and Death before Resurrection, has anything to do with the reply from Ali which is about "Disbelief"?

Think about these three questions and reply if you can.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

1. We are not talking about the Omnipresence attribute of The Father and The Son.
2. This doesn't answer the question, "Where was God's dwelling place before the creation of mankind?"
so again, where did God raise Jesus to?

"No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven." John 3:13

Explain,

1. Why did Jesus say He came down from Heaven, when in fact, Jesus was born from the womb of Mary?

2. Why Jesus said, "Son of Man who is in Heaven" when at that time, Jesus was on earth, when He said that.

 

[Link]

Let me ask you a couple question about the Hadith first.

Amirul Momineen (a.s.) used to say:

I quote the Hadith again.
The first part of Hadith is:

“Someone asked: O Amirul Momineen (a.s.), is there life before Resurrection, and then death after that?"

Question 1. What is the "life" before Resurrection that, he is referring?
What "death" is he talking about it, in the context of the Hadith?

Question 2: how does this person know that there is a life before Qiyamat and then a death after it?
Where did he get this knowledge from?
Do you know?


Now, notice carefully about what Ali answered:

"He replied: Yes, by Allah, disbelief after the Rajat is more severe than disbelief before it."

Question 3. Here the person asking Ali about life and death related to before Qiyamat and Ali replys "yes", but immediately after He replies yes, it appeas as if He is changing the topic. Now, He talks about "disbelief". How does the question about Life and Death before Resurrection, has anything to do with the reply from Ali which is about "Disbelief"?

Think about these three questions and reply if you can.

Salam

The concept of Rajaat is in Surah Naml. The hadiths expand on it.

Even if say it means disbelief of a disbeliever being more severe implies there will be a disbeliever or more, we can gather the rajaat is supposed to happen AFTER Isa (a) dies. That is there will be a period of time before Isa (a) dies, that all will be believers.

 

[B-psychedelic]

"No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven." John 3:13

Explain,

1. Why did Jesus say He came down from Heaven, when in fact, Jesus was born from the womb of Mary?

2. Why Jesus said, "Son of Man who is in Heaven" when at that time, Jesus was on earth, when He said that.

Mark 14:61 "But he held his peace and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?" :62 "And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven."

Reff: Daniel 7:13 "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him." :14 "And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed."

1. According to Qur'an (Surah Al-Baqarah) verse 210, who comes with the clouds of heaven with Angels to pass Judgement on the world?
please where are they coming from? From within us? bro, let's be real, Jesus Christ was raised to the Father and it wasn't within us.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Mark 14:61 "But he held his peace and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?" :62 "And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven."

Reff: Daniel 7:13 "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him." :14 "And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed."

1. According to Qur'an (Surah Al-Baqarah) verse 210, who comes with the clouds of heaven with Angels to pass Judgement on the world?
please where are they coming from? From within us? bro, let's be real, Jesus Christ was raised to the Father and it wasn't within us.

Christ was crucified and no body even knows what they did with His corpse.
Dude, get real. Religion is not science fiction movie. There is nothing up there.

 

[Jimmy]

"No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven." John 3:13

Explain,

1. Why did Jesus say He came down from Heaven, when in fact, Jesus was born from the womb of Mary?

2. Why Jesus said, "Son of Man who is in Heaven" when at that time, Jesus was on earth, when He said that.

Immaculate conception and appearing on earth at the age of around 5 is the same thing.

Heaven and earth are the same thing.