Where would I *not* be considered a heretic?

[Caladan]

Not sure about a religion, but out of curiosity... have you encountered a culture or a social group which answered all of your criteria?

 

[Tumah]

I have the word "heretic" in my title for good reason! I'm wondering if there is any religion that wouldn't consider me an outsider and/or a heretic.

Here's what I'm looking for in a religion (short list)

Egalitarianism/Impartiality

• Not tied to a specific culture, nation, or tribe
• no caste system
• no prescribed roles for men and women
• equally accessible to those who want to marry and have families and those who wish to be reclusive celibates
• not racist or sexist in any other manner

Since impartiality is a reasonable expectation for a religion, this is NON-NEGOTIABLE for me.

No Ritual Required
I'm not the least bit ritually inclined, but it is OK if others are. If ritual is expected of the members of the religion, it would probably drive me more towards reclusiveness in order to avoid it, if that would be acceptable to the religion in question.

This is negotiable.

Not Politicized
A politicized religion, especially one with a specific political agenda, would probably drive me more towards reclusiveness at best, and make me ill at worst.

Again, this is negotiable.

So, are there any religions left where I wouldn't be considered an outsider or a heretic?

You didn't actually describe your belief about G-d. So far there is nothing here to brand you an heretic by Judaism.

 

[crossfire]

Not sure about a religion, but out of curiosity... have you encountered a culture or a social group which answered all of your criteria?

Yes, non-denominational Buddhism, philosophical Taoism, Liberal Quakers, New Age, and UU seem to fit. (I might have to reconsider UU, however, as when I was investigating the UU websites for my area, some of them seem to be highly politicized.)

(Finding a group in my area is a challenge, however.)

 

[Caladan]

Sorry I don't see it... I believe the ones above all have biases which get mixed up with politics, and ideology and possibly other issues. In addition, does philosophical Toaism, has structured religious social trends with communities and groups?

 

[crossfire]

You didn't actually describe your belief about G-d. So far there is nothing here to brand you an heretic by Judaism.

I'm not Jewish, however, so I'm an outsider.

 

[crossfire]

Sorry I don't see it... I believe the ones above all have biases which get mixed up with politics, and ideology and possibly other issues. In addition, does philosophical Toaism, has structured religious social trends with communities and groups?

Yes, but I haven't found any in my area.

 

[Tumah]

I'm not Jewish, however, so I'm an outsider.

This was the question:

I have the word "heretic" in my title for good reason! I'm wondering if there is any religion that wouldn't consider me an outsider and/or a heretic.

So that is the answer.
In Judaism, you don't need to be Jewish to be a "believer". And you can be an heretic even if you are Jewish. Assuming you believed in non-trinitarian monotheism, you would already be an unofficial "Noahide" with all the perks.

 

[crossfire]

This was the question:


So that is the answer.
In Judaism, you don't need to be Jewish to be a "believer". And you can be an heretic even if you are Jewish. Assuming you believed in non-trinitarian monotheism, you would already be an unofficial "Noahide" with all the perks.

I'm more of a not-one, not-two kinda person.

 

[StarryNightshade]

(I might have to reconsider UU, however, as when I was investigating the UU websites for my area, some of them seem to be highly politicized.)

As someone who has been going to a UU church for a few years, while I love it's emphasis on social justice and progressive theology, it does become a bit too much when things get too political in nature.

I'd say, however, give it a chance and see if it will be a good match.

 

[Northern Lights]

I have the word "heretic" in my title for good reason! I'm wondering if there is any religion that wouldn't consider me an outsider and/or a heretic.

Here's what I'm looking for in a religion (short list)

Egalitarianism/Impartiality

• Not tied to a specific culture, nation, or tribe
• no caste system
• no prescribed roles for men and women
• equally accessible to those who want to marry and have families and those who wish to be reclusive celibates
• not racist or sexist in any other manner

Since impartiality is a reasonable expectation for a religion, this is NON-NEGOTIABLE for me.

No Ritual Required
I'm not the least bit ritually inclined, but it is OK if others are. If ritual is expected of the members of the religion, it would probably drive me more towards reclusiveness in order to avoid it, if that would be acceptable to the religion in question.

This is negotiable.

Not Politicized
A politicized religion, especially one with a specific political agenda, would probably drive me more towards reclusiveness at best, and make me ill at worst.

Again, this is negotiable.

So, are there any religions left where I wouldn't be considered an outsider or a heretic?

A Quaker Meeting, or a Unitarian / Universalist Church would welcome you warmly with your viewpoints, which are open minded and logical for the modern age.

Your views and outlook are great - don't even think about squeezing them to fit into a doctrinal box.

 

[Northern Lights]

As someone who has been going to a UU church for a few years, while I love it's emphasis on social justice and progressive theology, it does become a bit too much when things get too political in nature.

I'd say, however, give it a chance and see if it will be a good match.

The UK Unitarian's certainly aren't like this (they're socially engaged but not political), but I appreciate it may be different in the US.

I would then say to Crossfire, you should really try out a Quakers Meeting. But if you're in the US, find a liberal, unprogrammed meeting (they're all like that in the UK). If you meditate etc (which I believe you do from other threads), you'll love the silent service! I would say the Quakers are a lot like the UUs but with not as much social engagement and certainly (in the liberal meetings) not political.

 

[crossfire]

The UK Unitarian's certainly aren't like this (they're socially engaged but not political), but I appreciate it may be different in the US.

I would then say to Crossfire, you should really try out a Quakers Meeting. But if you're in the US, find a liberal, unprogrammed meeting (they're all like that in the UK). If you meditate etc (which I believe you do from other threads), you'll love the silent service! I would say the Quakers are a lot like the UUs but with not as much social engagement and certainly (in the liberal meetings) not political.

I just might. I just found two Friend's meeting houses, each about 25 miles away, neither of which requires a ferry ride.

 

[Northern Lights]

Like I said in another thread somewhere, I honestly think everyone should try out a Silent Service at a Quaker Meeting House, at some time in their life. .... A very spiritual but humanist experience in equal measure. And equally accessible to the theist, non-theist, agnostic and atheist alike.

.... just make sure they're a liberal group. The last thing you want is to experience conservative christianity, in a Quaker Meeting - it'll put you off for life!

At my local Quaker House (which I'm not yet a 'friend' but working up to it), there are Buddhists, Meditators, TM people, Christians, Hindus, Atheists, the lot! ..... perfect for those of us who find it difficult to be put in a religious box.

 

[crossfire]

Like I said in another thread somewhere, I honestly think everyone should try out a Silent Service at a Quaker Meeting House, at some time in their life. .... A very spiritual but humanist experience in equal measure. And equally accessible to the theist, non-theist, agnostic and atheist alike.

.... just make sure they're a liberal group. The last thing you want is to experience conservative christianity, in a Quaker Meeting - it'll put you off for life!

At my local Quaker House (which I'm not yet a 'friend' but working up to it), there are Buddhists, Meditators, TM people, Christians, Hindus, Atheists, the lot! ..... perfect for those of us who find it difficult to be put in a religious box.

Yeah, one of them is an evangelical Friend's "church," not a Meeting House, so I'll try the other one.

 

[DeepShadow]

I have the word "heretic" in my title for good reason! I'm wondering if there is any religion that wouldn't consider me an outsider and/or a heretic.

I'd like to respectfully suggest that you are going about this the wrong way. You are looking for a religion that fits your beliefs. You should look for God/the divine/whatever, and then allow that Presence to shape your beliefs with additional Truth.

"Religion" comes from "Religio-" meaning "to bind." To embrace a religion is to allow yourself to be bound, constrained, or limited. Many people reject religion for this reason, thinking that by rejecting limits they become free. But limits can also empower us, like the confining rails of train tracks that keep the train moving straight, or the string of a kite that allows it to soar, by anchoring it to the ground. A train that jumps the tracks is not free, nor does a kite fly higher when you cut the strings. We need limits in order to achieve our best.

So you're a kite that wants to fly, but you are trying to dictate the terms. This string is too long, that one is too short, that one is too flashy, that one over there gives you a rash. What you need to do is find an owner you can trust, and then do just that--trust. Your Owner may pick out a string that seems wrong in a lot of ways, but if you submit yourself to it for a while, you may be surprised at how much the Owner knew about what you really needed.

 

[crossfire]

I'd like to respectfully suggest that you are going about this the wrong way. You are looking for a religion that fits your beliefs.

Which beliefs would those be? I don't think I even listed any.

 

[DeepShadow]

Egalitarianism/Impartiality
No Ritual Required
Not Politicized

These (and all the sub-requirements that you listed in your opening post) are beliefs. They are beliefs about what your religion ought to be. What it ought to include.

Are you saying that if an angelic messenger told you that men and women are different, and have different roles in God's plan and kingdom, that you would reject this? What if God told you that the best way to understand Him was highly ritualized, or had a caste system, or was tied to a particular culture? You say these things are non-negotiable, because "impartiality is a reasonable expectation for a religion." That's a belief.

You could argue that the beliefs are implicit in the statements--and they are--but implicit beliefs are still critical to any such exercise. Perhaps the most important implicit belief here is that finding a religion for yourself means finding a place where you are not a heretic. Why? Suppose God wants you to join a religion, and be a heretic for it. Many of us are called by God to join a congregation, and temper their extremes by dribbling heresy until the mainstream softens its stance a little.

 

[crossfire]

These (and all the sub-requirements that you listed in your opening post) are beliefs. They are beliefs about what your religion ought to be. What it ought to include.

Ah, gotcha. By beliefs, I thought you meant cosmology, theology, etc.

Are you saying that if an angelic messenger told you that men and women are different, and have different roles in God's plan and kingdom, that you would reject this?

Yes.

What if God told you that the best way to understand Him was highly ritualized, or had a caste system, or was tied to a particular culture?

Yes, I would reject that too.

You say these things are non-negotiable, because "impartiality is a reasonable expectation for a religion." That's a belief.

I see where you are coming from.

You could argue that the beliefs are implicit in the statements--and they are--but implicit beliefs are still critical to any such exercise. Perhaps the most important implicit belief here is that finding a religion for yourself means finding a place where you are not a heretic. Why? Suppose God wants you to join a religion, and be a heretic for it. Many of us are called by God to join a congregation, and temper their extremes by dribbling heresy until the mainstream softens its stance a little.

Hey, even heretics need a place to rest.

 

[nazz]

When I start my own church you'll be welcome

 

[DeepShadow]

Hey, even heretics need a place to rest.

I hear you on that. I'm the heretic in most of my circles (not sure if I'm using it the same way you are?). I'm politically neutral, but I have friends on the Left who consider me Conservative, and ones on the Right who consider me Liberal. I'm the maverick at one of my jobs and the revolutionary at another. It's exhausting to have to represent the minority viewpoint all the time. I don't really have a place to rest. The best I get is to hang out here on RF with all the other heretics.

As for your search, I'm not sure why you are seeking a religion if you are not willing to have a relationship with a spiritual Other. If you would really reject God if he came with a message, because it contradicted what you had already decided, then what kind of religion would you even accept? Are you looking for a group that is just going to validate everything you already believe?