Which is “the first, the greatest and mightiest of all books”?

[paarsurrey]

The challenge was given by Muhammad and the Bab produced a book that matched that challenge. The Book proved it matched the koran by the hearts of the many Muslim Divines of great reputation that accepted the Bab and willing gave their lives for what it contained.

Men holding on to worldly desire and man made doctrine will never see this, as history has well proved.

The key is is if you see it or do not. If you do, do not hestitate even for a moment, if you do not, be careful what is imputed before one determines the Truth.

• The Qur'an (القرآن), Sura 2:89-90 (The Calf, سورة البقرة‎)
• The Qur'an (القرآن), Sura 2:174 (The Calf, سورة البقرة‎)

Regards Tony

Please quote from Muhammad where he gave a personal challenge to Bab.

Regards

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Naturally, if one knows a book which exceeds the features pointed out by Bahaullah, that challenges Bahaullah's claim/the Bahai claim, else, one should have to prove that the book "Qayyúmu’l-Asmá" authord by Bab, lacks the features Bahaullah's claimed or the Bahais claim for it.

In both case it is a challenge.

Regards

Okay, a challenge it is!

The trouble with all of those features is, they can mean different things to different people. First in what sense? And so with greatest and mightiest.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Please quote from Muhammad where he gave a personal challenge to Bab.

Regards

The Bab fulfilled the challenge Muhammad gave.

In verse 2:23 it gives the overall challenge for people who doubt Muhammad by saying; "if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah, if you should be truthful."

Then in verse 17:88 it says no ordinary person can;."Say, "If mankind and the jinn gathered in order to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like of it, even if they were to each other assistants.""

Thus the Bab did produce works complimentry to the Quran. Thus we must submit to the fact that Allah also sent down these verses, which no other men can produce.

10: 37-38 "And it was not [possible] for this Qur'an to be produced by other than Allah, but [it is] a confirmation of what was before it and a detailed explanation of the [former] Scripture, about which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds.

Or do they say: "He (Muhammad(P)) has forged it?" Say: "Bring then a surah (chapter) like unto it, and call upon whomsoever you can, besides Allah, if you are truthful!""

So do they say the Bab and Baha'u'llah forged it?

Regards Tony

 

[paarsurrey]

InvestigateTruth said: ↑
There is online, one in original Arabic. I have read some. What might be interesting, it has the style of the Arabic Quran, and the Bab said, 'if you believe in Quran, here is a Book like it!', He then said: 'I was never trained in religions or Arabic, as I am only 25 years old, who is a Merchant. The same God whi revealed the Quran to Muhammad, has revealed this Book to Me'

Please provide me the link of the original one in Arabic.
I understand that the book is on the tafsir/commentary of Surah/chapter Yousuf/Joseph of Holy Quran. I love the Surah so it will be interesting to read the book Qayyum-ul-Asma by Bab.

Please provide me the link of the book “Qayyúmu’l-Asmá,—the first, the greatest and mightiest of all books" in Arabic written by Bab. I intend to read it.

Regards

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Please provide me the link of the book “Qayyúmu’l-Asmá,—the first, the greatest and mightiest of all books" in Arabic written by Bab. I intend to read it.

Regards

I have not found a link, not sure if it is available? It is not linked at Wiki

Qayyūm al-asmā - Wikipedia

This link may have original text?

Qayyūm al-asmā' - Translations | Hurqalya Publications: Center for Shaykhī and Bābī-Bahā’ī Studies

There is a PDF at the bottom of this page of a copy that was owned by one of the Disciples;

Notes and PDfs of Select mss. of the Qayyum al-asma' or Tafsir Surat Yusuf | Hurqalya Publications: Center for Shaykhī and Bābī-Bahā’ī Studies

Regards Tony

 

[dfnj]

Which is “the first, the greatest and mightiest of all books”?

Thread open for all people who belong to a religion or no-religion, please.

Regards
___________

Bahaullah writes:

“Gracious God! In His Book, which He hath entitled “Qayyúmu’l-Asmá,”—the first, the greatest and mightiest of all books—He prophesied His own martyrdom. In it is this passage: “O thou Remnant of God! I have sacrificed myself wholly for Thee; I have accepted curses for Thy sake; and have yearned for naught but martyrdom in the path of Thy love. Sufficient Witness unto me is God, the Exalted, the Protector, the Ancient of Days!”

Page 231 Kitab-i-Iqan or the “Book of Certitude” written by Bahaullah.

This is my answer to the greatest and mightiest of all books ever written:

https://www.amazon.com/Formally-Undecidable-Propositions-Principia-Mathematica/dp/0486669807

Nothing in my life has changed my way of thinking more than this book. If extraterrestrials landed tomorrow and went through all the books in all our libraries, in my opinion, this book would be the one they thought was the most profound and most lasting piece of knowledge ever conceived by humanity.

 

[paarsurrey]

I have not found a link, not sure if it is available? It is not linked at Wiki

Qayyūm al-asmā - Wikipedia

This link may have original text?

Qayyūm al-asmā' - Translations | Hurqalya Publications: Center for Shaykhī and Bābī-Bahā’ī Studies

There is a PDF at the bottom of this page of a copy that was owned by one of the Disciples;

Notes and PDfs of Select mss. of the Qayyum al-asma' or Tafsir Surat Yusuf | Hurqalya Publications: Center for Shaykhī and Bābī-Bahā’ī Studies

Regards Tony

Thanks you for the links.
After reading Kitab-i-Iqan, I may read Kitab-i-Aqdas and then this one by Bab also.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

This is my answer to the greatest and mightiest of all books ever written:

https://www.amazon.com/Formally-Undecidable-Propositions-Principia-Mathematica/dp/0486669807

Nothing in my life has changed my way of thinking more than this book. If extraterrestrials landed tomorrow and went through all the books in all our libraries, in my opinion, this book would be the one they thought was the most profound and most lasting piece of knowledge ever conceived by humanity.

@For you and to all those who have very kindly contributed in this thread!
Can you accept the challenge for the book you have suggested v the claim of Bahaullah about this book “Qayyúmu’l-Asmá,”?
If not, why not please?
No compulsion though, please.

Regards

 

[dfnj]

@For you and to all those who have very kindly contributed in this thread!
Can you accept the challenge for the book you have suggested v the claim of Bahaullah about this book “Qayyúmu’l-Asmá,”?
If not, why not please?
No compulsion though, please.

Regards

Sorry, not interested in recycled religions.

 

[gnostic]

The Odyssey by Homer (I preferred the translation by Robert Fagles).

The Iliad (by the same author and by the same translator, above).

And the Epic of Gilgamesh.

 

[gnostic]

None of the Abrahamic scriptures fit in as being the first.

That is reserved for Gilgamesh.

The funerary texts, like the Pyramid Texts, Coffin Texts and Book of the Dead also predated Abrahamic scriptures, as do the Hindu Rig Veda.

 

[gnostic]

Sorry, not interested in recycled religions.

Well, that would include Christianity and Islam too.

 

[dfnj]

Well, that would include Christianity and Islam too.

You forgot Judaism.

 

[paarsurrey]

The Odyssey by Homer (I preferred the translation by Robert Fagles).

The Iliad (by the same author and by the same translator, above).

And the Epic of Gilgamesh.

Please read post #148 in the thread. Can one compare its features with the book “Qayyúmu’l-Asmá,” by Bab, please?

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

The Bab fulfilled the challenge Muhammad gave.

In verse 2:23 it gives the overall challenge for people who doubt Muhammad by saying; "if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah, if you should be truthful."

Then in verse 17:88 it says no ordinary person can;."Say, "If mankind and the jinn gathered in order to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like of it, even if they were to each other assistants.""

Thus the Bab did produce works complimentry to the Quran. Thus we must submit to the fact that Allah also sent down these verses, which no other men can produce.

10: 37-38 "And it was not [possible] for this Qur'an to be produced by other than Allah, but [it is] a confirmation of what was before it and a detailed explanation of the [former] Scripture, about which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds.

Or do they say: "He (Muhammad(P)) has forged it?" Say: "Bring then a surah (chapter) like unto it, and call upon whomsoever you can, besides Allah, if you are truthful!""

So do they say the Bab and Baha'u'llah forged it?

Regards Tony

Did Bab express his doubts about Quran being from G-d in clear and unequivocal terms without Taqiyya/dissimulation? If yes, then please quote from him,please.

Regards

 

[gnostic]

Please read post #148 in the thread. Can one compare its features with the book “Qayyúmu’l-Asmá,” by Bab, please?

Regards

I can’t comment on Qayyúmu’l-Asmá because I haven’t read it.

But it doesn’t really matter, since there is no way Bab’s book can be “the first”, “the greatest” or “the mightiest”.

Most people never heard of Qayyúmu’l-Asmá. I only heard of it being a book of the Bahá'í Faith, but Bahá'í Faith was never a religion that I am interested in exploring, hence I have no interest in reading.

And as I said in my last, some of the oldest religious texts are the Egyptian Pyramid Texts, the Sumerian-Akkadian myth of Gilgamesh and the Hindu Rig Veda.

So any attempt in claiming Qayyúmu’l-Asmá being “the first” is hollow.

Likewise, since most people never heard of Qayyúmu’l-Asmá, claiming it to be mightiest or greatest, make those claims false.

 

[paarsurrey]

I can’t comment on Qayyúmu’l-Asmá because I haven’t read it.

But it doesn’t really matter, since there is no way Bab’s book can be “the first”, “the greatest” or “the mightiest”.

Most people never heard of Qayyúmu’l-Asmá. I only heard of it being a book of the Bahá'í Faith, but Bahá'í Faith was never a religion that I am interested in exploring, hence I have no interest in reading.

And as I said in my last, some of the oldest religious texts are the Egyptian Pyramid Texts, the Sumerian-Akkadian myth of Gilgamesh and the Hindu Rig Veda.

So any attempt in claiming Qayyúmu’l-Asmá being “the first” is hollow.

Likewise, since most people never heard of Qayyúmu’l-Asmá, claiming it to be mightiest or greatest, make those claims false.

Did one read all the three works that one suggested, please?

1. Egyptian Pyramid Texts
   
2. Sumerian-Akkadian myth of Gilgamesh
   
3. and the Hindu Rig Veda.

and who were exactly their authors/writers?
We know Qayyúmu’l-Asmá is authored by Bab the founder of Babism.

Regards

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Did Bab express his doubts about Quran being from G-d in clear and unequivocal terms without Taqiyya/dissimulation? If yes, then please quote from him,please.

Regards

The Bab had no doubts, the passage was quoted in support of the Bab ability to produce works like unto the Quran. It is the Muslims and all of us that have that same challenge with the Bab and Baha'u'llah, it is them and us that can have doubt about the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

The Bab made it very easy, His first book was set out like unto the Quran and tradition says it was written over 40 days. One again I suggest the 40 days has meaning.

I was reading last night that while imprisoned at the fortress of Maku, over a million verses streamed from His Pen. So much of this now lost, I do hope a lot has been secretly saved.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So any attempt in claiming Qayyúmu’l-Asmá being “the first” is hollow.

All Faiths have concepts in one way or another of rebirth, return, resurrection. For that to happen the former has passed away.

It is said also that all things are made new. Thus as the former is renewed, the first is again applicable.

We see this in nature with springtime. The first flowers of the new spring are not the flowers of last year.

We can now also see how all Messengers are the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. They are the seed that renews all Faith.

Regards Tony

 

[paarsurrey]

The Bab had no doubts, the passage was quoted in support of the Bab ability to produce works like unto the Quran. It is the Muslims and all of us that have that same challenge with the Bab and Baha'u'llah, it is them and us that can have doubt about the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

The Bab made it very easy, His first book was set out like unto the Quran and tradition says it was written over 40 days. One again I suggest the 40 days has meaning.

I was reading last night that while imprisoned at the fortress of Maku, over a million verses streamed from His Pen. So much of this now lost, I do hope a lot has been secretly saved.

Regards Tony

"The Bab had no doubts"Unquote.

As one has admitted that Bab had not doubt about Quran being the Word of G-d,and he also had no doubt whatsoever that Muhammad was a prophet/messenger of God.
Similarly Bahaullah had not doubt about Quran being the Word of G-d,and he also had no doubt whatsoever that Muhammad was a prophet/messenger of God. Right, please?
If yes, then there was no challenge to Bab from Muhammad. The verses of Quran quoted by one in post #143 above were/are addressed to the doubters and non-believers of Muhammad and Quran not otherwise.
Right, please?

Regards