Which is Wiser?

[Sunstone]

All else being equal, which is the wiser course to take towards any and all interpretations of mystical experiences: Certainty, or Uncertainty? Put differently, is the impulse to arrive at a definitive or certain interpretation of these experiences as wise as, say, being hesitant to arrive at certainty? Why or why not?

Note: In this context, "mystical experiences" can refer to any or all of the dozen odd experiences that are at least sometimes referred to as "mystical" -- from out of body experiences to "seeing god".

 

[lewisnotmiller]

All else being equal, which is the wiser course to take towards any and all interpretations of mystical experiences: Certainty, or Uncertainty? Put differently, is the impulse to arrive at a definitive or certain interpretation of these experiences as wise as, say, being hesitant to arrive at certainty? Why or why not?

Note: In this context, "mystical experiences" can refer to any or all of the dozen odd experiences that are at least sometimes referred to as "mystical" -- from out of body experiences to "seeing god".

Uncertainty. However, I think what needs to be built in is examination of the risk/effect that both certainty and uncertainty can lead to.
One of the things that is entirely possible, if using 'uncertainty' as an overarching answer, is that a person can become crippled with doubt, or fail to act. Sometimes, dependent on the action or effect, it's actually less risky to say 'Damn the torpedoes' and assume an interpretation is the 'real' one.

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

Uncertainty. However, I think what needs to be built in is examination of the risk/effect that both certainty and uncertainty can lead to.
One of the things that is entirely possible, if using 'uncertainty' as an overarching answer, is that a person can become crippled with doubt, or fail to act. Sometimes, dependent on the action or effect, it's actually less risky to say 'Damn the torpedoes' and assume an interpretation is the 'real' one.

I mostly agree, but this is the mysticism DIR.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I mostly agree, but this is the mysticism DIR.

Meep!!



Sorry all! (Thanks for the heads up, TS)

 

[George-ananda]

All else being equal, which is the wiser course to take towards any and all interpretations of mystical experiences: Certainty, or Uncertainty? Put differently, is the impulse to arrive at a definitive or certain interpretation of these experiences as wise as, say, being hesitant to arrive at certainty? Why or why not?

Note: In this context, "mystical experiences" can refer to any or all of the dozen odd experiences that are at least sometimes referred to as "mystical" -- from out of body experiences to "seeing god".

I believe that when one has a genuine mystical experience it is from a level of reality more real than our waking reality. This is much like how we call our waking state more real after waking from a dream. Why do I think this? From many paranormal things, I believe there are planes of nature in which consciousness can experience and that the higher (finer) planes allow consciousness to experience more richly than through dense matter. I believe many quality experiencers that I have heard tell us that when you have a real experience you know it (much like many NDE people claiming that they know that it wasn't a dream). For the rest of us they can give no proof but they don't feel to need it for some reason. I believe that from the quantity, quality and consistency of these things that they are probably correct in their certainty.

 

[George-ananda]

I believe that when one has a genuine mystical experience it is from a level of reality more real than our waking reality. This is much like how we call our waking state more real after waking from a dream. Why do I think this? From many paranormal things, I believe there are planes of nature in which consciousness can experience and that the higher (finer) planes allow consciousness to experience more richly than through dense matter. I believe many quality experiencers that I have heard tell us that when you have a real experience you know it (much like many NDE people claiming that they know that it wasn't a dream). For the rest of us they can give no proof but they don't feel to need it for some reason. I believe that from the quantity, quality and consistency of these things that they are probably correct in their certainty.

I see others are backing out because this is the Mysticism DIR. If I am wrong to be here then crush me like a bug but 'Mysticism' is not really a religion anyone claims specifically.

 

[Papoon]

All else being equal, which is the wiser course to take towards any and all interpretations of mystical experiences: Certainty, or Uncertainty? Put differently, is the impulse to arrive at a definitive or certain interpretation of these experiences as wise as, say, being hesitant to arrive at certainty? Why or why not?

Note: In this context, "mystical experiences" can refer to any or all of the dozen odd experiences that are at least sometimes referred to as "mystical" -- from out of body experiences to "seeing god".

Neither.

Gratitude. Pleasure. Comfort. Release.

It's not a test. There is no right answer.

Flow.

 

[sun rise]

All else being equal, which is the wiser course to take towards any and all interpretations of mystical experiences: Certainty, or Uncertainty? Put differently, is the impulse to arrive at a definitive or certain interpretation of these experiences as wise as, say, being hesitant to arrive at certainty? Why or why not?

Note: In this context, "mystical experiences" can refer to any or all of the dozen odd experiences that are at least sometimes referred to as "mystical" -- from out of body experiences to "seeing god".

l don't evaluate mine on that axis. My first question to myself is whether they serve to reinforce my limited ego or not. If the answer is 'yes', I dismiss the experience. If the answer is 'no' then I don't try to intellectually evaluate them but rather to accept them and sometimes write a poem about what I've experienced as a way to explore what I've experienced. Sometimes the meaning is event, sometimes meaning is realized after a time.

 

[crossfire]

All else being equal, which is the wiser course to take towards any and all interpretations of mystical experiences: Certainty, or Uncertainty? Put differently, is the impulse to arrive at a definitive or certain interpretation of these experiences as wise as, say, being hesitant to arrive at certainty? Why or why not?

Note: In this context, "mystical experiences" can refer to any or all of the dozen odd experiences that are at least sometimes referred to as "mystical" -- from out of body experiences to "seeing god".

Uncertainty. If you've made your mind up via certainty, then you have limited your capacity for experience right there, and become prone to delusion thereafter because of your certain expectations.

 

[YmirGF]

Uncertainty. If you've made your mind up via certainty, then you have limited your capacity for experience right there, and become prone to delusion thereafter because of your certain expectations.

Indeed. Certainty of things that cannot be proven effectively is not a wise approach. Those of us who have much experience under our belts tend to go with uncertainty because we have gotten over the bravado of our youth. All things seem so certain to the young ones but then you begin to see, however slowly, that things are not quite what they seem and your brain is given to superimposing its assumptions onto experience. While certainty does have a place, uncertainty will serve as a better vehicle to furthering understanding as you never stop questioning...

 

[LuisDantas]

Certainty is simply too patently dangerous to be better than uncertainty.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

All else being equal, which is the wiser course to take towards any and all interpretations of mystical experiences: Certainty, or Uncertainty? Put differently, is the impulse to arrive at a definitive or certain interpretation of these experiences as wise as, say, being hesitant to arrive at certainty? Why or why not?
Note: In this context, "mystical experiences" can refer to any or all of the dozen odd experiences that are at least sometimes referred to as "mystical" -- from out of body experiences to "seeing god".

I think a "don't know" attitude is the wiser approach because it leaves us more open to new experiences. Uncertainty can be uncomfortable of course.

 

[Windwalker]

All else being equal, which is the wiser course to take towards any and all interpretations of mystical experiences: Certainty, or Uncertainty? Put differently, is the impulse to arrive at a definitive or certain interpretation of these experiences as wise as, say, being hesitant to arrive at certainty? Why or why not?

I think the question is far larger than mystical experiences, but all experiences, be those mystical, or daily mundane experiences, or the experiences of one's own thoughts and ideas. Is more nuanced and subtle points of view to any and all of those wiser than black and white absolutist points of view? I would say certainly, yes. It shows a higher level of maturity and sophistication of thought. Black and white absolutist thought comes before more subtle and relativistic thought, as the differences between concrete operational and formal operational stages and beyond follow on a general developmental line, from earlier to later, simpler to more sophisticated.

So someone who is very black and white, absolutistic in how they translate the world in general who has a mystical experience will very likely see it as validation of their absolutistic points of view. They met God and he is the God of their religion, proving that all the others and their experiences must be lies, false, or deceptions. But someone who is relativistic in their overall thinking will take the same mystical experience and understand it as validation that Love is universal for all.

So since it is wiser in general to have more sophisticated frameworks of interpretation, then it would seem spiritual growth would involve not only state experiences of the mystical domains, but structures of thought themselves in general in a developmental line. The mystical experiences are the same, but how they are held and interpreted depend on the structures of develop the person is at in general.

 

[mystic64]

...approach with certainty or approach with uncertainty?

I would have to say, if those are the only two choices , that one's approach should have a healthy dose of both certainty and uncertainty. Certain that the experience has a foundation in something that is real, but uncertain where the experience is going to lead them. Based on my responce to my first mystic experience when I was five years old, sixty-one years ago, my first responce was "curiosity". And, that curiosity lead me to explore the mystic experience to the exclusion of practically everything else for the rest of my life. Am I happy at sixty-six that I made that choice at five years old? Yes I am ! There is nothing that I could have spent my life doing that would have resulted in the wonderment and knowledge that I have now. Nothing.

Do I feel that the mystic experience is for everybody? No, I absolutely do not. Because like LuisDantas said, "Certainty is too patently dangerous." and like Spiny Norman said, Uncertainty can be uncomfortable." In my opinon, based on a lot of years of this stuff, what those two gentleman have said is frightenly real. Being a true mystic is not for the weak kneed !

 

[mystic64]

I think the question is far larger than mystical experiences, but all experiences, be those mystical, or daily mundane experiences, or the experiences of one's own thoughts and ideas. Is more nuanced and subtle points of view to any and all of those wiser than black and white absolutist points of view? I would say certainly, yes. It shows a higher level of maturity and sophistication of thought. Black and white absolutist thought comes before more subtle and relativistic thought, as the differences between concrete operational and formal operational stages and beyond follow on a general developmental line, from earlier to later, simpler to more sophisticated.

So someone who is very black and white, absolutistic in how they translate the world in general who has a mystical experience will very likely see it as validation of their absolutistic points of view. They met God and he is the God of their religion, proving that all the others and their experiences must be lies, false, or deceptions. But someone who is relativistic in their overall thinking will take the same mystical experience and understand it as validation that Love is universal for all.

So since it is wiser in general to have more sophisticated frameworks of interpretation, then it would seem spiritual growth would involve not only state experiences of the mystical domains, but structures of thought themselves in general in a developmental line. The mystical experiences are the same, but how they are held and interpreted depend on the structures of develop the person is at in general.

Sir, can you explain how your post relates to the OP? I know that I am not a mystic and that I am somewhat dumb, but I am a contributing member and for some reason they allow me to wander around on this message board ? Sunstone was very careful to define his OP reality, so sir, "How does your post fit that defined reality?"

 

[atanu]

Certainty is simply too patently dangerous to be better than uncertainty.

That sounds like certainty to me. Well, I am uncertain though.

 

[allfoak]

All else being equal, which is the wiser course to take towards any and all interpretations of mystical experiences: Certainty, or Uncertainty? Put differently, is the impulse to arrive at a definitive or certain interpretation of these experiences as wise as, say, being hesitant to arrive at certainty? Why or why not?

Note: In this context, "mystical experiences" can refer to any or all of the dozen odd experiences that are at least sometimes referred to as "mystical" -- from out of body experiences to "seeing god".

The interpretation of all personal experience is of course personal.
A definitive interpretation then would be one with which you are satisfied.

It is kind of like interpreting a dream, you can never be certain that you completely understood it and you are the only one who can interpret it, but you can get a great deal of meaning from it.

 

[Windwalker]

Sir, can you explain how your post relates to the OP? I know that I am not a mystic and that I am somewhat dumb, but I am a contributing member and for some reason they allow me to wander around on this message board ? Sunstone was very careful to define his OP reality, so sir, "How does your post fit that defined reality?"

He asks the question, "is the impulse to arrive at a definitive or certain interpretation of these experiences as wise as, say, being hesitant to arrive at certainty? Why or why not?". I hear the question asking is it wiser to take into consideration other possible understandings of one's own mystical experience, rather than landing on a "I know this way of understanding is right!", conclusion. My post explained how the latter is a limited, more absolutistic way of thinking, and the rest of the post was explaining why.

 

[Quintessence]

While the popular answer is "uncertainty," something to consider:

There are many things that cannot occur without a firm foundation. Put another way, there are certain conclusions one will never draw without accepting certain premises. We may think of "uncertainty" as being less limiting, but the truth is that it has at least as many as certainty does, given the preceding.

What is more important is to mindfully construct one's path. Then, the foundation one builds is in keeping with one's nature, and provides an appropriate springboard for new directions.

 

[Baladas]

All else being equal, which is the wiser course to take towards any and all interpretations of mystical experiences: Certainty, or Uncertainty? Put differently, is the impulse to arrive at a definitive or certain interpretation of these experiences as wise as, say, being hesitant to arrive at certainty? Why or why not?

Note: In this context, "mystical experiences" can refer to any or all of the dozen odd experiences that are at least sometimes referred to as "mystical" -- from out of body experiences to "seeing god".

Uncertainty seems the wiser approach to me, at least in most cases.
I have been down the road of certainty, only to discover that I was dead wrong.
Becoming heavily invested in an interpretation of my own, I became very upset when I realize I was deceiving myself.

On the other hand, certain assumptions can be helpful depending on what you are trying to do or achieve, if anything.

What is more important is to mindfully construct one's path. Then, the foundation one builds is in keeping with one's nature, and provides an appropriate springboard for new directions.

I love the way that you worded this, and I couldn't agree more.