Which Jesus is the right one?

[Ebionite]

Actions speak louder than words, 1213. In G-John Jesus uses a whip which he made himself, you know.

The story is an outlier. The gospel of John always favours the Pharisees. Given the insider knowledge present in that gospel, the writer of John probably regarded the Pharisees as a trusted source of facts.

 

[oldbadger]

I don't it can be said he secured the funds.

Matthew {25:18} But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord’s money.

....All very safe, and secure!

But, in this case I think the problem is not the profit, but that the person didn't care and was a coward.

Matthew {25:27} Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and [then] at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

..... Oh dear! The master required profits from usury through the money exchangers!!!
We all know what one Jesus thought of all that!

Matthew: {25:30} And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

So much for servants who don't make money from usury!

 

[oldbadger]

The story is an outlier. The gospel of John always favours the Pharisees. Given the insider knowledge present in that gospel, the writer of John probably regarded the Pharisees as a trusted source of facts.

Can you show an example from John to show what you mean?

 

[Ebionite]

Can you show an example from John to show what you mean?

John's account of the destruction of the temple doesn't include the false witnesses.

	John 2​
18	Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
19	Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

	Mark 14​
55	And the chief priests and all the council sought for witness against Jesus to put him to death; and found none.
56	For many bare false witness against him, but their witness agreed not together.
57	And there arose certain, and bare false witness against him, saying,
58	We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.

	Matthew 26​
59	Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;
60	But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses,
61	And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Hello.
Now which Jesus is the real one!

There's one that tells that gathering riches and loving mammon are both very wrong, but some Christians reply by telling me that Jesus believes in profits and rewards for profitable servants. Which one is the right one?

There's the Jesus that orders people never to call others 'fool' but Christians sometimes accuse others of being 'brick-thick'. Which Jesus is the right one?

There's the Jesus that insists on peaceful behaviour and turning the other cheek when slapped. But some Christians insist that Jesus wanted his followers to sell their possessions and buy swords.

And......there are more examples, but you get it.
So which Jesus is the real one?

I don't know.

 

[anotherneil]

Whichever one you like.

 

[oldbadger]

John's account of the destruction of the temple doesn't include the false witnesses.

	John 2​
18	Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
19	Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

	Mark 14​
55	And the chief priests and all the council sought for witness against Jesus to put him to death; and found none.
56	For many bare false witness against him, but their witness agreed not together.
57	And there arose certain, and bare false witness against him, saying,
58	We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.

	Matthew 26​
59	Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;
60	But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses,
61	And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.

How any of that is connected to Pharisees in any way eludes me.

The chief priests and elders of council are all Levite Temple authorities, and not Pharisees.

The account on G-John is clearly intended to remove this action far away from Palm Sunday week, so that other charges could be dreamed up in the church story.

One of the main themes on G-John is the plotting and scheming of 'the jews' against Jesus, and I don't understand what you are focusing upon Pharisees for.

 

[oldbadger]

Whichever one you like.

Well that what some people choose to do.
Today they can quote a peace loving Jesus, but tomorrow they might prefer a violent Jesus with sword shooting from his mouth to pierce enemies, or a Jesus that completely denounces the hoarding of wealth today and a Jesus that supports usury and capitalism tomorrow.

Cherry picking for each need.

 

[oldbadger]

I don't know.

I expect that Scandinavian Gods might be more consistent, I've always been interested in Loki.

 

[anotherneil]

Well that what some people choose to do.
Today they can quote a peace loving Jesus, but tomorrow they might prefer a violent Jesus with sword shooting from his mouth to pierce enemies, or a Jesus that completely denounces the hoarding of wealth today and a Jesus that supports usury and capitalism tomorrow.

Cherry picking for each need.

Yup - it could be that they like one at one moment then another at another moment, and whichever one they like at any moment is the right one at that moment.

 

[rocala]

Today they can quote a peace loving Jesus, but tomorrow they might prefer a violent Jesus with sword shooting from his mouth to pierce enemies, or a Jesus that completely denounces the hoarding of wealth today and a Jesus that supports usury and capitalism tomorrow.

Yup - it could be that they like one at one moment then another at another moment, and whichever one they like at any moment is the right one at that moment.

I think this is true of what passes for religion with a great many people. They can get justification from their book. It does not involve any hard decision-making. There is no sacrifice.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

Hello.
Now which Jesus is the real one!

There's one that tells that gathering riches and loving mammon are both very wrong, but some Christians reply by telling me that Jesus believes in profits and rewards for profitable servants. Which one is the right one?

There's the Jesus that orders people never to call others 'fool' but Christians sometimes accuse others of being 'brick-thick'. Which Jesus is the right one?

There's the Jesus that insists on peaceful behaviour and turning the other cheek when slapped. But some Christians insist that Jesus wanted his followers to sell their possessions and buy swords.

And......there are more examples, but you get it.
So which Jesus is the real one?

The Bible tells us which one is real.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The Bible tells us which one is real.

There is no observable us for that, because there is no agreement on how to read the Bible,

 

[Ebionite]

How any of that is connected to Pharisees in any way eludes me.

Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.
Matthew 12:14

Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.
John 11:47

Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;
Matthew 26:59

 

[oldbadger]

The Bible tells us which one is real.

OK......would the violent criminal and picket line holder be your choice? Or maybe the peaceful bringer of love? Or.......etc

 

[oldbadger]

Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.
Matthew 12:14

Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.
John 11:47

Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;
Matthew 26:59

No. The Pharisees were not chief priests. Most were not even Levites.

I think you've mixed up your Pharisees with the main body of the Temple Priesthood.

 

[Trailblazer]

Having studded Roman history of the period i don't believe Jesus to be represented the majority of what is written in the bible.

I guess you meant studied. I am famous for correcting peoples' spelling so please don't take this personally.

 

[Trailblazer]

So which Jesus is the real one?

I don't think we will ever know since the gospels are not a reliable depiction of Jesus.

 

[oldbadger]

I don't think we will ever know since the gospels are not a reliable depiction of Jesus.

That's a good proposal, I think.
We don't know.
But sadly this means that a few Christians can (and do) mix and match these varying characters to suit their needs, and support their attempts at righteousness.

 

[ChristineM]

I guess you meant studied. I am famous for correcting peoples' spelling so please don't take this personally.

I don't take it personally, i don't give a damn as several grammar Nazis have already found out. Im dyslexic, if my spell checker doesn't highlight an error it's good enough for me.

That's a full explanation for you, what i usually post is...