Which religion has love?

[sojourner]

I believe its possible for people to love or have mutual respect for one another without the need for religion. However, does that mean those who do are disciples of Jesus? So, either way, there is no escaping the fact that those who do love others aren't disciples of Jesus.

Boom! Another mystery solved! Jesus didn't have just 12 disciples, he has a army.

Speaking form a purely Xtian standpoint, Jesus wasn't teaching anything new, really. Jesus was simplifying and clarifying something that had become overburdened and overcomplicated. And somehow, we've managed to do the same to Xy. All Jesus was really saying was, "You know what the right thing is, why not just do it?" Love and respect are as natural as breathing, so long as we don't forget just how natural they are -- and how loved and respected we are.

 

[kjw47]

I agree. Armageddon is not God's way for the removing of wickedness. God does not gather people to Armageddon. Expressions inspired by demons do, according to the New World Translation Bible. How is it that demons work for God's peace?

Yes satan misleads every kingdom( govt,armies,supporters) on this earth, to stand in opposition to God at Harmageddon--with 3 inspired expressions.( rev 16)

It is also fact--Harmageddon is Gods will. the cleansing of his earth.

 

[Ouroboros]

Yes, that was harsh language from me. But it is deserved. It is a narcissistic, and worse, sociopathological view. It does not see others through empathy. It reflects a total lack of empathy, which defines the sociopath.
...

That's because their view of God and their faith is based on their fundamental attitude towards other people. Egocentric view towards the world forms a belief in an egocentric God who needs worship and "companionship" by creating a flawed human being that has to be tested to be worthy.

Each and everyone of us designs a God in our own image. Some starts with a xerox copy of a fundamentalist God from the ancients and draw some mustache on it to make it their own. It's much better to start from a blank canvas and make God from scratch. Now you can really make him/her/it out of the box.

 

[Windwalker]

That's because their view of God and their faith is based on their fundamental attitude towards other people. Egocentric view towards the world forms a belief in an egocentric God who needs worship and "companionship" by creating a flawed human being that has to be tested to be worthy.

Each and everyone of us designs a God in our own image. Some starts with a xerox copy of a fundamentalist God from the ancients and draw some mustache on it to make it their own. It's much better to start from a blank canvas and make God from scratch. Now you can really make him/her/it out of the box.

What you are saying is very true. If you follow the color mapping scheme of Spiral Dynamics, when someone at the red vmeme level reads the Bible, they find a red level tribal-warrior Jesus supporting their view of reality. Someone at the blue level, a blue level authoritarian Jesus; the orange level, an orange Jesus; green level, a green Jesus; yellow, yellow; turquoise, turquoise, etc.

This is the power of icons and symbols. They both affirm ourselves, and also inspire advance to the next stage as the situation, or the environment necessitates. When anyone says 'this is what the Bible teaches', they are only seeing what their current set of eyes allows them to see. The rest simply filters right through and into a blank hole. It cannot be seen, because their eyes can't see that spectrum of light, so to speak. That of course is not permanent, but existing only at the stage of development. They shape of the eye develops so to speak, to allow seeing the other colors.

I understand metaphorically what you're saying about starting with a blank slate, but I don't believe that's entirely possible in the literal sense. We always build upon what came before. We essentially negate the previous understandings view as the dominant force, but we take the useful bits forward with us that serve us in the new understanding and build upon those. For instance, knowing a sense of love and community in a tribal-centered world view, is brought forward and expanded upon in breaking down the blood-ties world in favor of a larger ethnic community. You now widen the circle loving others in your community beyond just family bloodlines. Then you take that love in that circle, that structure, and move it forward, negating the limits of ethnocentric worldviews, and extend love to the global community, and so on. Love is advancing forward, using the structures of consciousness along the way of its 'transcend and include' path.

The blank slate essentially means to me, breaking down the exclusive view of the current level and creating new structures of understanding that allow for a wider, more inclusive understanding of what came before.

 

[savagewind]

What you are saying is very true. If you follow the color mapping scheme of Spiral Dynamics, when someone at the red vmeme level reads the Bible, they find a red level tribal-warrior Jesus supporting their view of reality. Someone at the blue level, a blue level authoritarian Jesus; the orange level, an orange Jesus; green level, a green Jesus; yellow, yellow; turquoise, turquoise, etc.

This is the power of icons and symbols. They both affirm ourselves, and also inspire advance to the next stage as the situation, or the environment necessitates. When anyone says 'this is what the Bible teaches', they are only seeing what their current set of eyes allows them to see. The rest simply filters right through and into a blank hole. It cannot be seen, because their eyes can't see that spectrum of light, so to speak. That of course is not permanent, but existing only at the stage of development. They shape of the eye develops so to speak, to allow seeing the other colors.

I understand metaphorically what you're saying about starting with a blank slate, but I don't believe that's entirely possible in the literal sense. We always build upon what came before. We essentially negate the previous understandings view as the dominant force, but we take the useful bits forward with us that serve us in the new understanding and build upon those. For instance, knowing a sense of love and community in a tribal-centered world view, is brought forward and expanded upon in breaking down the blood-ties world in favor of a larger ethnic community. You now widen the circle loving others in your community beyond just family bloodlines. Then you take that love in that circle, that structure, and move it forward, negating the limits of ethnocentric worldviews, and extend love to the global community, and so on. Love is advancing forward, using the structures of consciousness along the way of its 'transcend and include' path.

The blank slate essentially means to me, breaking down the exclusive view of the current level and creating new structures of understanding that allow for a wider, more inclusive understanding of what came before.

Thanks for sharing the spiral dynamics.

Turquoise Holistic An integrative system which combines an organism's necessary self-interest with the interests of the communities in which it participates. The theory is still forming.

I believe this is what Jesus taught. But it transcends time. So the communuity in which it participates is one singular community that encompasses all the life form that ever was, including life that is spiritual. The trick is learning to live in the present but being aware of the past and future simultaneously. Also learning to live with life that is known to be much more worthy of respect without surrendering to it.

 

[savagewind]

Which religion is love? Because the question is so hard to answer, maybe impossible, the right question might be what religion isn't love. According to the theory of the rainbow that Windwalker shared (spiral dynamics) the religion that is teaching it's pupuls to see only one light isn't love. The religion that teaches sight is love. Whichever teacher or teachers that causes the pupul to believe he is seeing, is the one or ones that the student will call "true" teachers. But he might be seeing only one fraction of the light. If the teacher tells him the one fraction is the whole thing, that is very bad.

 

[Ouroboros]

I understand metaphorically what you're saying about starting with a blank slate, but I don't believe that's entirely possible in the literal sense. We always build upon what came before.

That's true. It's like art too. We take ideas and techniques from other artists before us to create something new. I didn't expand on my analogy earlier because I didn't want to mud it up with too much thought.

Basically, when you do art, you can do sketches, freethink, and such, and sometimes look at other artists work and get ideas, and then you combine different things and can start working on your own piece. For instance, taking a photo, crop it, then draw it, that's a challenge where you as an artist has to evolve and engage in both the original and your product. It changes you while changing the canvas.

The cheap artist takes the same photo. Glue the back, sticks it on the canvas, draw a mustache on the lady, and call it art. (So you can see I don't appreciate pop-art that much. It's clever, but I haven't seen any that really peaked my interest yet. I take Op art over Pop art any day.)

 

[BruceDLimber]

God has warned mankind that the only way to rid his earth of all wickedness is Harmageddon.

What you overlook is that the Battle of Armageddon already took place--in 1918, near the end of World War I--when the British General Allenby defeated the Turks on the Plain of Megiddo (aka "Armageddon") near Haifa, Israel!

(He also thereby saved a number of religionists who were threatened with being killed by the Ottoman Empire, but that's another story.)

So it seems Armageddon isn't exactly the "only way to rid the earth of wickedness."

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Windwalker]

Which religion is love? Because the question is so hard to answer, maybe impossible, the right question might be what religion isn't love. According to the theory of the rainbow that Windwalker shared (spiral dynamics) the religion that is teaching it's pupuls to see only one light isn't love. The religion that teaches sight is love. Whichever teacher or teachers that causes the pupul to believe he is seeing, is the one or ones that the student will call "true" teachers. But he might be seeing only one fraction of the light. If the teacher tells him the one fraction is the whole thing, that is very bad.

Wonderful! I'm so happy exposing you to spiral dynamics clicks for you! That's huge. It really helps to find a language, a framework of understanding to look at these things through we sense intuitively, doesn't it?

 

[Windwalker]

That's true. It's like art too. We take ideas and techniques from other artists before us to create something new. I didn't expand on my analogy earlier because I didn't want to mud it up with too much thought.

Basically, when you do art, you can do sketches, freethink, and such, and sometimes look at other artists work and get ideas, and then you combine different things and can start working on your own piece. For instance, taking a photo, crop it, then draw it, that's a challenge where you as an artist has to evolve and engage in both the original and your product. It changes you while changing the canvas.

The cheap artist takes the same photo. Glue the back, sticks it on the canvas, draw a mustache on the lady, and call it art. (So you can see I don't appreciate pop-art that much. It's clever, but I haven't seen any that really peaked my interest yet. I take Op art over Pop art any day.)

When we create art, we do so as an expression of something from within us. In choosing the forms, we filter what we have been exposed to and put our own faces into it. This is creating a new language for ourselves to give some tangle expression to it with.

Then there are those as you say who merely duplicate expressions of others. Their own voice is not part of that song in innovation, as they are merely repeating and imitating forms. And that's fine, as an expression of form, hence your pop art, pop music, pop anything. Pop religion. It maintains the norm, and that's its function. It reproduces innovation into commonality. And then when innovation occurs, it takes that commonality and creates something novel.

This is how evolution works. So the pop artist plays his role in normalizing things, until they become so stale and bland, evolution thrusts change forward and an advance occurs. It was Alfred North Whitehead who observed there were not 3 main forces only in the universe, those being electrostatic, electromagnetic, and gravitational, but there was a 4th which he called, "The creative advance into novelty". That's evolution. It is as much a force as gravity. And we are following this through our own development, religious expression evolving right along with us.

 

[kjw47]

What you overlook is that the Battle of Armageddon already too place--in 1918, near the end of World War I--when the British General Allenby defeated the Turks on the Plain of Megiddo (aka "Armageddon") near Haifa, Israel!

(He also thereby saved a number of religionists who were threatened with being killed by the Ottoman Empire, but that's another story.)

So it seems Armageddon isn't exactly the "only way to rid the earth of wickedness."

Peace,

Bruce

Obviously you don't know what the bible teaches--the whole purpose of harmageddon is for Gods kingdom to take control of all creation and it will never be stopped-Daniel 2:44--this sure isn't Gods kingdom.
Mortals cannot defeat satan and his angels-- they have been doing a poor job of it all through mankinds history--99% mislead for the most part of it. God whose will cannot be stopped has an appointed king( Jesus) to rid his earth of all wickedness. Not what man says or thinks is wickedness--what God thinks is wicked-- mankind is up the creek without a paddle--Few find the road to eternal life.

 

[BruceDLimber]

So sorry, but this is also in error:

God is One, Supreme, and has no equal or rival! There is thus no "devil" out there competing with Him or trying to “get us.”

And "satan" merely refers to our own lower (animal) nature when we give it control instead of our higher (spiritual) nature.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[kjw47]

So sorry, but this is also in error:

God is One, Supreme, and has no equal or rival! There is thus no "devil" out there competing with Him or trying to “get us.”

And "satan" merely refers to our own lower (animal) nature when we give it control instead of our higher (spiritual) nature.

Peace,

Bruce

So are you saying Gods written word is a lie--because it teaches a real satan.

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

=Jainarayan;3534572]I wondered about Hinduism at one time, but compassion and love is definitely there, despite Hinduism seemingly interested in the Self.

Yes you are right that Hinduism also has "Love", in its Philosophy. Also I think the interest in the Philosophy of the "self" for Hinduism is also a idea to recognize the Unity of all so called "Selfs" as one in a bid to fostering unity and Love.

Love
Atharvaveda (Shaunakiya Samhita) III.30.

The union of hearts and minds
and freedom from hate I'll bring you.
Love one another as the cow
loves the calf that she has borne. || 1 ||

Let son be loyal to father
and of one mind with his mother.
Let wife speak to husband words
that are honey sweet and gentle. || 2 ||

Let not brother hate a brother,
nor a sister hate a sister,
unanimous, united in aims,
speak you words with friendliness. || 3 ||

And Self

Sukla Yajur Veda Chapter 40

6) The one who in him "Self" beholds all creatures and all things
that be, And in all beings sees his "Self", doubts no longer.

7) When we know and see the "Self" in all beings
what bewilderment, what grief is there in him who sees the
One alone?

So there we go.

 

[psychoslice]

Love is never found in any religion, scripture is just words, just as a menu is only words, the menu can order you what you want, but what you want to eat isn't the menu.

 

[BruceDLimber]

So are you saying Gods written word is a lie--because it teaches a real satan?

No, I'm saying you're misinterpreting the metaphor.

Simple as that.

Bruce

 

[kjw47]

No, I'm saying you're misinterpreting the metaphor.

Simple as that.

Bruce

Jesus the son of the true God taught--- satan is the ruler of this world--- you have misinterpreted.

 

[ImprobableBeing]

Jesus said "I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another.By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.” (John 13:34,35) which religion, in your opinion, is identified by the love they have for one another?

And not a single Christian follows Jesus, if they did they would be die hard liberal socialists who would stumble all over themselves to help their fellow man.

Those are atheists of today, if Jesus were alive today he'd be an atheist.

 

[ImprobableBeing]

Jesus the son of the true God taught--- satan is the ruler of this world--- you have misinterpreted.

If you truly believe in these things, seek help.

We have seen time and time again how these things end, you may think you never would but if you believe that this world is ruled by satan and you are a messenger of god you need to be locked up.

See, if you talk to god you are praying, if he talks to you you are clinically insane.

 

[Windwalker]

And not a single Christian follows Jesus, if they did they would be die hard liberal socialists who would stumble all over themselves to help their fellow man.

Those are atheists of today, if Jesus were alive today he'd be an atheist.

A frubal for you sir! I've said this before.