White collar crime isn’t a crime - according to Giuliani.

[fantome profane]

Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani defends Paul Manafort, suggests white-collar crime isn’t really crime

Rudy Giuliani offered a new defense of Paul Manafort on Thursday, suggesting that just because the former Trump campaign chairman was found guilty of a "white collar crime" doesn't mean he's a criminal.

Nah Rudy. It is a crime, and your buddy Paul is a criminal. He stole almost 12 million dollars from the American people. And that is just one of the things he did. If you are an American and you pay your taxes, this guy stole from you. And Trump and Giuliani think that is just fine.

 

[tytlyf]

But but Donald was a private citizen! These crimes don't relate to private citizens! RW media is spreading that.

 

[Stevicus]

Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani defends Paul Manafort, suggests white-collar crime isn’t really crime


Nah Rudy. It is a crime, and your buddy Paul is a criminal. He stole almost 12 million dollars from the American people. And that is just one of the things he did. If you are an American and you pay your taxes, this guy stole from you. And Trump and Giuliani think that is just fine.

It confirms the observations made by George Carlin back during the Reagan years. There was another administration riddled with lawbreakers, yet they were the "law and order" people:


George Carlin: 225 different people in the Ronald Reagan administration have either quit, been fired, been arrested, indicted, or convicted of either breaking the law or violating the ethics code. 225 of 'em! And Edwin Meese alone...

George Carlin: Edwin Meese alone has been investigated by three separate special prosecutors, and there's a fourth one waiting for him in Washington right now. Three separate special prosecutors have had to look into the activities of the Attorney General; and the Attorney General is the nation's leading law enforcement officer!

George Carlin: See, that's what you've got to remember; this is the Ronald Reagan administration we're talking about. These are the "law and order" people! These are the people who are against street crime. They want to put street criminals in jail to make life safer for the business criminals!

George Carlin: They're against street crime... Yeah! Yeah, they're against street crime, providing that street isn't Wall Street.

George Carlin: What Am I Doing in New Jersey? (1988) - Quotes - IMDb

 

[tytlyf]

It confirms the observations made by George Carlin back during the Reagan years. There was another administration riddled with lawbreakers, yet they were the "law and order" people:


George Carlin: 225 different people in the Ronald Reagan administration have either quit, been fired, been arrested, indicted, or convicted of either breaking the law or violating the ethics code. 225 of 'em! And Edwin Meese alone...

George Carlin: Edwin Meese alone has been investigated by three separate special prosecutors, and there's a fourth one waiting for him in Washington right now. Three separate special prosecutors have had to look into the activities of the Attorney General; and the Attorney General is the nation's leading law enforcement officer!

George Carlin: See, that's what you've got to remember; this is the Ronald Reagan administration we're talking about. These are the "law and order" people! These are the people who are against street crime. They want to put street criminals in jail to make life safer for the business criminals!

George Carlin: They're against street crime... Yeah! Yeah, they're against street crime, providing that street isn't Wall Street.

George Carlin: What Am I Doing in New Jersey? (1988) - Quotes - IMDb

George Carlin definitely had some insight. He was often correct in his assessment of what is going on "behind the scenes."

 

[sun rise]

These are the "law and order" people! These are the people who are against street crime. They want to put street criminals in jail to make life safer for the business criminals!

If corporations are people they should have the same penalties for crimes as flesh-and-blood people including the death penalty where appropriate.

 

[Sapiens]

Corporations exist in order to shield individuals from taking full responsibility for their actions. This is, at a basic level, dishonest and corrupt. Capitalism is not the problem, per se, but capitalism made irresponsible by a corporate structure guarantees racketeering.

 

[Shad]

Corporations exist in order to shield individuals from taking full responsibility for their actions. This is, at a basic level, dishonest and corrupt. Capitalism is not the problem, per se, but capitalism made irresponsible by a corporate structure guarantees racketeering.

Incorporation (process) creates this by definition. It separates the business entity from the owners.

 

[oldbadger]

Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani defends Paul Manafort, suggests white-collar crime isn’t really crime


Nah Rudy. It is a crime, and your buddy Paul is a criminal. He stole almost 12 million dollars from the American people. And that is just one of the things he did. If you are an American and you pay your taxes, this guy stole from you. And Trump and Giuliani think that is just fine.

If this is the incident that could finally turn a high % of the US voters far away from Republican Party Politics then 12 million Dollars is affordable.

 

[Mindmaster]

Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani defends Paul Manafort, suggests white-collar crime isn’t really crime


Nah Rudy. It is a crime, and your buddy Paul is a criminal. He stole almost 12 million dollars from the American people. And that is just one of the things he did. If you are an American and you pay your taxes, this guy stole from you. And Trump and Giuliani think that is just fine.

Rarely do I find agreement with you, but I do on this. Crime is crime.

However, what any of this has to do with Mueller's investigation of Russian collusion is beyond me and I would have fired him 100x already for over-reaching the scope of his investigation.

 

[Twilight Hue]

If corporations are people they should have the same penalties for crimes as flesh-and-blood people including the death penalty where appropriate.

Oh if only. I never liked the corporate "people" model anyways.

 

[sun rise]

Oh if only. I never liked the corporate "people" model anyways.

I think the corporate person model is an abomination. But if we're going to go there, my dog has a distinct personality and thus should be considered a person under the law.

 

[Willamena]

Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani defends Paul Manafort, suggests white-collar crime isn’t really crime


Nah Rudy. It is a crime, and your buddy Paul is a criminal. He stole almost 12 million dollars from the American people. And that is just one of the things he did. If you are an American and you pay your taxes, this guy stole from you. And Trump and Giuliani think that is just fine.

I think this is the salient point.

 

[Sapiens]

Incorporation (process) creates this by definition. It separates the business entity from the owners.

Therein lies the problem. The corporation permits the owner to behave in a criminal fashion and profit from that without a real risk of criminal penalties, this is wrong.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Rarely do I find agreement with you, but I do on this. Crime is crime.

However, what any of this has to do with Mueller's investigation of Russian collusion is beyond me and I would have fired him 100x already for over-reaching the scope of his investigation.

You misunderstand the nature of Mueller's investigation.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...Presidential_Election_and_Related_Matters.pdf


(b) The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation confinned by then-FBI Director James 8. Corney in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on March 20, 2017, including: (i) any links and/or coordination bet ween the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and (ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and (iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a).

How did he exceed the scope of the investigation?

 

[Mister Emu]

I'm happy Manafort is facing justice, and I hope Trump doesn't pardon him (even though I know he will after the 2020 election). That I have reservations about the manner in which justice was obtained doesn't change that.

How did he exceed the scope of the investigation?

I'd be interested in knowing how decade+ old tax falsifications came up during an investigation into Russian contacts with the Trump campaign in 2016.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm happy Manafort is facing justice, and I hope Trump doesn't pardon him (even though I know he will after the 2020 election). That I have reservations about the manner in which justice was obtained doesn't change that.


I'd be interested in knowing how decade+ old tax falsifications came up during an investigation into Russian contacts with the Trump campaign in 2016.

I don't know myself. The details of the how and why are unlikely to be released until after the investigation is done. It probably falls under either subsection (ii) or (iiii) in the orders that started this. Those can be very broad categories.

 

[Falvlun]

I'd be interested in knowing how decade+ old tax falsifications came up during an investigation into Russian contacts with the Trump campaign in 2016.

If I recall correctly, the tax fraud is in relation to payments he received as a foreign agent, specifically for the pro-Russian government in Ukraine. Following the Russian ties of Truump’s campaign managers seems like a reasonable place to start.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If I recall correctly, the tax fraud is in relation to payments he received as a foreign agent, specifically for the pro-Russian government in Ukraine. Following the Russian ties of Truump’s campaign managers seems like a reasonable place to start.

And there we have it. Thank you very much.

But as I said, that investigation casts a very wide net and a lot of people have been caught in it already. The "witches" that they have caught have all been rather obviously guilty.

 

[tytlyf]

But but Donald was a private citizen! These crimes don't relate to private citizens! RW media is spreading that.

Always ignore RW media. Heavily fact check everything they tell you.

Trump is latching on to a popular right-wing talking point about Michael Cohen that experts say is 'nonsense'

 

[tytlyf]

And there we have it. Thank you very much.

But as I said, that investigation casts a very wide net and a lot of people have been caught in it already. The "witches" that they have caught have all been rather obviously guilty.

Additionally, I'll guarantee some of these foreign banks were used during the campaign. Shoveling cash from pro-russia efforts.

The argument that 'this stuff is so old" doesn't hold water. People are not looking at the big picture.