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white vs. black
- Thread starter jewscout
- Start date
There is magic. There are postive applications of magic. There are negative applications of magic. There are ethical applications of magic (which are not necessarily synonymous with positive applications of magic). There are unethical applications of magic (which are not necessarily synonymous with negative applications of magic). But in the end, it's all magic. The magic that can do damage is the magic that can heal. Magic that cannot do one cannot do the other, and is therefore not really magic.
Fluffy
A fool
Okay there are a few ideas on this. What follows are a few of those very different arguments.
1) Magick has been likened to electricity. Electricity can light homes and create heat but it can also kill. That doesnt make electricity black or white. Therefore, magick is neutral and can be used for good or bad but this is a reflection of the person using it, not magick itself.
2) Magick has been likened to prayer. In prayer you wouldn't expect God to give you an evil response would you? If you prayed for harm to come to someone else then you wouldn't expect this to happen would you? The same goes for magick: it is driven by the God and Goddess who are forces of good and therefore it cannot be used for evil.
3) Magick can be subdivided into different sections such as black and white. These sub sections are determined by the intention behind the ritual. For example if I did a ritual to heal someone but infront of loads of people so that they would think better of me then this would therefore be selfish making the spell black.
4) Magick can be subdivided into different sections such as black and white. These sub sections are determined by the outcome of the ritual. So if a ritual went wrong and ended up harming someone then it would be black even if it were not my intention.
Whether one can say that any of these are not Wiccan I am uncertain. These are beliefs I have heard expressed by people who call themselves Wiccans. My personal belief would be one of the first 2 with a leaning towards the 2nd though I am still undecided. The truth is that Wicca is incredibly diverse and not as well documented (in my opinion). There are not as many centralised beliefs as there is in Christianity for example and so asking a question towards the religion as a whole can sometimes lead to an incredibly wide range of views on what might seem like a very important issue.
1) Magick has been likened to electricity. Electricity can light homes and create heat but it can also kill. That doesnt make electricity black or white. Therefore, magick is neutral and can be used for good or bad but this is a reflection of the person using it, not magick itself.
2) Magick has been likened to prayer. In prayer you wouldn't expect God to give you an evil response would you? If you prayed for harm to come to someone else then you wouldn't expect this to happen would you? The same goes for magick: it is driven by the God and Goddess who are forces of good and therefore it cannot be used for evil.
3) Magick can be subdivided into different sections such as black and white. These sub sections are determined by the intention behind the ritual. For example if I did a ritual to heal someone but infront of loads of people so that they would think better of me then this would therefore be selfish making the spell black.
4) Magick can be subdivided into different sections such as black and white. These sub sections are determined by the outcome of the ritual. So if a ritual went wrong and ended up harming someone then it would be black even if it were not my intention.
Whether one can say that any of these are not Wiccan I am uncertain. These are beliefs I have heard expressed by people who call themselves Wiccans. My personal belief would be one of the first 2 with a leaning towards the 2nd though I am still undecided. The truth is that Wicca is incredibly diverse and not as well documented (in my opinion). There are not as many centralised beliefs as there is in Christianity for example and so asking a question towards the religion as a whole can sometimes lead to an incredibly wide range of views on what might seem like a very important issue.
You are understanding me perfectly. To draw on Fluffy's post, I'd say that I tend to take a stance that is akin the first view she desribes.jewscout said:Interesting pensive....so there's no real distinction between "good" and "bad" types of magic, just the way in which you choose to use it? I'm just trying to see if i'm understanding you correctly
Master Vigil
Well-Known Member
For a wiccan, shaman, taoist, pagan, etc... seeing a tree bud is magic. Watching a stream flow is magic. For an artist, painting is magic, music is magic. For another, it may just be boring old nature, or just a boring piece of colored canvas, or just another song. But to an open spiritual person, its magical. Don't be so closed minded Anglo.
Circle_One
Well-Known Member
It's already been said, but I figure I shall put the same idea into my own words. There is no such thing as black/white magick for magick has no color. It is the heart and soul of the practitioner which decides whether the outcomes of the magick practiced will be benefitial or detrimental to themselves and/or others around them. All magick is derived from the same source.
RainMoonGrey
New Member
Let us not forget as well, the Wiccan Rede which quotes in part..."Eight words the Witches Rede Fulfill, And it harms ye none do as ye will." This to say that whatever one does in the name of Wicca and magick must be done in good faith and for the perpetuation of good causes. Black magic would suggest otherwise and is in no part endorsed, supported or created by anything Wiccan.
No matter what religion you are, we are still all human. Us humans will be as we will- regardless of religious creed, though may defend by such.
No matter what religion you are, we are still all human. Us humans will be as we will- regardless of religious creed, though may defend by such.
Circle_One
Well-Known Member
But this still would suggest that black magick exists in and of itself as a form of magick, which is does not. Black magick is a term coined by practitioners who wished to frighten others by exclaiming they are capable of doing "bad" magick. Whether good or bad, magick is still just magick. "Good" spell workings are not white magick and "bad" spell workings are not black magick.RainMoonGrey said:
People may wish to call curses, hexes, etc. "Black magick" but it is a false term and no matter how many people say otherwise, it will always be a false term.
Quote :-[For a wiccan, shaman, taoist, pagan, etc... seeing a tree bud is magic. Watching a stream flow is magic. For an artist, painting is magic, music is magic. For another, it may just be boring old nature, or just a boring piece of colored canvas, or just another song. But to an open spiritual person, its magical. Don't be so closed minded Anglo.]
Hey Master Vigil;
I always seem to 'fit in' with your replies. Perhaps I'm a simple person (as in uncomplicated), but to me everything created by God is beautiful, and full of magic. Every day I wonder at all that nature has to offer, and I feel humble.
Hey Master Vigil;
I always seem to 'fit in' with your replies. Perhaps I'm a simple person (as in uncomplicated), but to me everything created by God is beautiful, and full of magic. Every day I wonder at all that nature has to offer, and I feel humble.
Isis-Astoroth
Member
To sum up: Magic, is magic.
RainMoonGrey
New Member
Yeah...I guess it's just the term in which we choose to coin things. Language can be a funny thing. Personally, I do believe that people can wish ill will and perform these ill wills and negativity in some form of ritual that may be considered by themselves to be "magic".
Perhaps it would be more appropriate to name them "black intentions" or "intentions of ill will" versus "intentions of good will". No sense in putting a color-label to it as that can be subjective. It's not about what we do but the intentions in which we do it.
Perhaps it would be more appropriate to name them "black intentions" or "intentions of ill will" versus "intentions of good will". No sense in putting a color-label to it as that can be subjective. It's not about what we do but the intentions in which we do it.
Circle_One
Well-Known Member
That was the point I was trying to make Rain. There IS such thing as harmful magick, there really are curses and hexes, but the point I was saying is that all in all, it's still just "magick" nothing before it, nothing after it. The power one uses to cast a harmful spell or curse comes from the same source as the power one uses to cast a healing spell and other beneficial castings. The only difference between the two is the will and power of the practitioner casting said spells, that is what makes the magick good or bad, not the source itself because the source of all magick is completely neutral.RainMoonGrey said:
Master Vigil
Well-Known Member
HEHE... I think everyones a taoist, they just use different terms.cfer said:Perhaps your a taoist?