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Who Agrees with Trump's Tweets on his Immigration EO and the Court Orders Thereto?

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Especially this Tweet:

The opinion of this so-called judge, which essentially takes law-enforcement away from our country, is ridiculous and will be overturned!​

Do you consider it appropriate for a President to denigrate a federal judge by referring to him as “this so-called judge” when the judge has merely issued an TRO entirely within his powers? (Is Trump just too much of an idiot to understand that one of the fastest ways to get clobbered in court is to publicly hurl personal insults at judges?)

Do you agree that the Temporary Restraining Order granted by Judge Robart “essentially takes law-enforcement away from our country”? Is that even an intelligible assertion?

FYI: Judge Robart issued the TRO on the basis of the established standard by which he found (a) that the states (Washington and Minnesota) were likely to succeed on the merits of the claims that would entitle them to relief; (b) that the states were likely to suffer irreparable harm in the absence of preliminary relief; (c) that the balance of equities favor the states; and (d) and that the TRO is in the public interest.

The states allege 10 causes of action, including (inter alia) violations of Fifth Amendment Equal Protection rights and First Amendment Establishment Clause rights of the non-citizen immigrants and guest workers of these states; violation of the Immigration and Nationality Act, 8 U.S.C. § 1152(a)(1)(A), which is part of the Hart-Cellars Act of 1964 prohibiting discrimination in the issuance of immigrant visas on the basis of race, nationality, place of birth, or place of residence; and violation of 8 U.S.C. §§ 1158 and 1231(b)(3), which entitles certain non-citizens arriving at the States’ ports of entry to apply for asylum and withholding of removal.

The states' argument that the EO violates the Equal Protection component of the Fifth Amendment's Due Process Clause goes thus:

63. The Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment prohibits the federal government from denying equal protection of the laws.

64. Sections 3 and 5 of the Executive Order, together with statements made by Defendants concerning their intent and application, target individuals for discriminatory treatment based on their country of origin and/or religion, without lawful justification.

65. The Executive Order was motivated by animus and a desire to harm a particular group.

66. The discriminatory terms and application of the Executive Order are arbitrary and cannot be sufficiently justified by federal interests.

67. Through their actions above, Defendants have violated the equal protection guarantee of the Fifth Amendment.

68. Defendants’ violation causes ongoing harm to the States and their residents.​

First among the “statements made by Defendants concerning their intent and application, [which] target individuals for discriminatory treatment based on their country of origin and/or religion,” noted in paragraph 64, the states cite in paragraph 43 Trump's December 7, 2015 press release calling for “a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.”

This argument might or might not have been one of those that persuaded Judge Robart that the states were likely to succeed on the merits of their claims that Trump's EO is unconstitutional, but I haven't seen where anyone (especially Trump) has argued to the contrary. According to Trump's own statements, his intent was clearly to target individuals for discriminatory treatment, not because he or anyone else determined them to be a threat to national interests, but because of their national origin and/or religion, which violates the Equal Protection component of Due Process.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
It seems bizarre to me that he has continued this method of communication (ie. inflammatory tweets) now that he is in office. Circumventing due process is problematic, and if you're a President, even the APPEARANCE of it can results in poor outcomes.
 

Kuzcotopia

If you can read this, you are as lucky as I am.
Something Trump used the day in the debates against Clinton. . .

"You were in government for 30 years, why didn't you fix these problems?"

I didn't know it at the time, but he was clearly ignorant about the balance of powers in this county, the counter arguments of an opposing part who often holds more power, and that adding or changing existing policy is a hard, time-consuming process that takes time to vet.

These are not mission statements from a CEO where his underlings can act of their own accord, these are
laws here, and the enforcement of laws.

Back to the debate. . . He clearly had no idea how government actually works. . . This lashingn out against a federal judge is another example of his ignorance.

Some people think this is some devious Orwellian plot to undermine our constitution and consolidate power. . . But he's actually just incompetent and frustrated. . . He didn't know that these checks existed.
 
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oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
His Twit account should be shelved... in the interest of national security, if nothing else.
Maybe he thinks that open communication for all to see is honest communication?
I don't expect that top-secret comms will be sent in such a way?
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
And it's going to be a long four years if we have to put up with everyone who doesn't agree with him being dismissed as fake.
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
He should fire the judge, the judge has his checks and balances, and maybe Trump has his checks and balances.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Maybe he thinks that open communication for all to see is honest communication?

Honesty doesn't require a lack of consideration though. He might honestly have a low opinion of a judge, but still be aware that if he makes this public (in a medium limiting the ability to include context, and which encourages rash comment) it will not be of benefit to the nation he swore to serve.

I don't expect that top-secret comms will be sent in such a way?

No. But the unedited and unthought through comments of a President can be problematic in any case, including his thoughts about foreign powers and policies.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
It seems bizarre to me that he has continued this method of communication (ie. inflammatory tweets) now that he is in office. Circumventing due process is problematic, and if you're a President, even the APPEARANCE of it can results in poor outcomes.
The Donald probably would benefit from a stricter PR manager to keep him in check.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Honesty doesn't require a lack of consideration though. He might honestly have a low opinion of a judge, but still be aware that if he makes this public (in a medium limiting the ability to include context, and which encourages rash comment) it will not be of benefit to the nation he swore to serve.

No. But the unedited and unthought through comments of a President can be problematic in any case, including his thoughts about foreign powers and policies.

Oh, yes, we can forget the delicacies of diplomacy for a while.
I get the impression of a wildcat let loose in a room full of ancient manuscripts.
It will get worse before it gets better, much worse, methinks.

But...... just one but..... so many Presidents have been accused of insincerity, or fibbing, or deceiving, that I don't get the impression that this is the case, here. I'm trying to be positive, here..... :D
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Oh, yes, we can forget the delicacies of diplomacy for a while.
I get the impression of a wildcat let loose in a room full of ancient manuscripts.
It will get worse before it gets better, much worse, methinks.

But...... just one but..... so many Presidents have been accused of insincerity, or fibbing, or deceiving, that I don't get the impression that this is the case, here. I'm trying to be positive, here..... :D

Yes, I think I can agree with all of this, including the lack of deception or artfulness in the tweets. I think he is mostly just sharing a stream of consciousness.
 
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