Who and what is a Bodhisattva?

[Kapalika]

I've been noticing the rise in the word bodhisattva in vocabulary among some spiritual people. I even see some members here put somewhere that they are a bodhisattva.

Perhaps my understanding is from a limited view, but my understanding is that to be a bodhisattva you have to be initiated and take a specific oath to be reborn again and again until all being achieve Nirvana.


The only people I have ever known to be Bodhisattvas for sure were people engaged in lineages, or figures said to have demi-god like abilities and powers that you could call on in Tantra.


Again, perhaps my understanding comes from the limited perspective of Tantra and there are uses I am not familiar with, but the general impression I get is that most people who say they are bodhisattvas only think they are.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I've been noticing the rise in the word bodhisattva in vocabulary among some spiritual people. I even see some members here put somewhere that they are a bodhisattva.

Perhaps my understanding is from a limited view, but my understanding is that to be a bodhisattva you have to be initiated and take a specific oath to be reborn again and again until all being achieve Nirvana.


The only people I have ever known to be Bodhisattvas for sure were people engaged in lineages, or figures said to have demi-god like abilities and powers that you could call on in Tantra.


Again, perhaps my understanding comes from the limited perspective of Tantra and there are uses I am not familiar with, but the general impression I get is that most people who say they are bodhisattvas only think they are.

You're right. Every school does see it differently. Like, the Lotus Sutra sees the Bodhisattva as anyone who follows the Buddha's teachings and, as a result, helping others to enlightenment before himself. So, you have Bodhisattvas that have already reached enlightenment--I mean, a lot. Then you have the rest of us who have taken or maybe will take vows to be Buddha's by taking the Bodhisattva path.

Some people say that you have to formally go to a lineage to be a Bodhisattva. Others they can be one over night. I came into Buddhism through Zen, and it's more "if you're looking for a teacher, you're missing the point of the teaching."

So, I would say it would be customary to take Bodhisattva vows at a lineage. I honestly don't believe The Buddha would say a person can't help others from suffering until he made a vow to someone else first to do so. He obviously didn't do that. His journey from someone who saw suffering from affair, experienced it as a Bodhisattva to help people from it, then became enlightened to the nature of it, and share the teachings or Dharma of the Law.

Each school, of course, has their different views. If you'd like, I can share some views from the school I practice from.

There is another Bodhisattva around here on RF. Don't know any others, at least by title. Hope you get different thoughts.



I mean, to put it technically, anyone who follows The Buddha's teachings and have the goal of helping people from suffering before he becomes enlightened is a Bodhisattva.

It's the most basic teaching of Buddhism there is. Helping people from suffering.

 

[buddhist]

In early Buddhism, a Bodhisatta is simply an unenlightened individual who has vowed to eventually gain enlightenment as either 1. an Arahant, 2. a Pacceka-Buddha (Private Buddha), or 3. a Samma-Sambuddha (Fully Enlightened Buddha).

1. A Savaka-bodhisatta must work to perfect himself for as little as seven days to achieve enlightenment and nibbana as a "mere" Arahant. A savaka-bodhisatta who wishes to become an Arahant as a Great Disciple of a Samma-sambuddha must perfect himself for 100,000 kappas. To become an Arahant as a Chief Disciple of a Samma-sambuddha, he must perfect himself for one aeon and 100,000 kappas.

2. A Pacceka-bodhisatta must perfect himself for two aeons and 100,000 kappas to achieve the state of a Pacceka-Buddha and nibbana. In addition, he must obtain a guarantee and prophecy of success from an existing, living Pacceka-Buddha or Samma-Sambuddha.

3. A Maha-bodhisatta, working to become a Samma-Sambuddha and nibbana, must perfect himself for four aeons and 100,000 kappas. Like the pacceka-bodhisatta, he must also obtain a guarantee and prophecy of success from an existing, living Pacceka-Buddha or Samma-Sambuddha.

 

[psychoslice]

Its only a word, don't get caught up in mere words, it points to one who has Awakened, no more needs to be said.

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Mandi ji

I've been noticing the rise in the word bodhisattva in vocabulary among some spiritual people. I even see some members here put somewhere that they are a bodhisattva.

Perhaps my understanding is from a limited view, but my understanding is that to be a bodhisattva you have to be initiated and take a specific oath to be reborn again and again until all being achieve Nirvana.

there are different levels of Bodhichitta , ....as conditioned beings we are not fully in the position to help others so at this stage the person is expressing 'Aspiring Bodhichita' ...the wish to help eleviate the suffering of conditioned beings the aspirant then takes the vow 'to attain enlightenment for thr benifit of all' .......so upon taking this vow we become 'Aspiring Bodhisattvas' ...this must not be confused with 'A Bodhisattva' as in Chenreizig (avaloketisvara) or other divinities who are aspects of the Buddha's mind which eminate out of compassion for the purpose of releiving suffering and removing obsticals to learning , ....

The only people I have ever known to be Bodhisattvas for sure were people engaged in lineages, or figures said to have demi-god like abilities and powers that you could call on in Tantra.

Again, perhaps my understanding comes from the limited perspective of Tantra and there are uses I am not familiar with, but the general impression I get is that most people who say they are bodhisattvas only think they are.

in tantra we are calling on , invoking or emulating the qualities of these ''demi-dod like'' aspects of Buddha mind we are asking for their blessings and that they assist in the removal of obsticals on our personal path , ....

when we as practitioners use the term Bodhisattva it is asspiring Bodhichitta , ....so in truth we should say aspiring Bodhisattva , as we are engaged in seeking enlightenment for the benifit of all , .....

 

[crossfire]

You don't have to be an initiate to be a bodhisattva. A bodhisattva is an unawakened one who works from the unconscious mind (heart) to help awaken others, instead of from the conscious mind. You might liken some of them to holy fools, or even as light bearers/lucifers. Here's a story about a bodhisattva that might help you to understand.

http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Buddhism/C - Zen/Stories/The Cucumber Sage/The Cucumber Sage.htm

 

[LuisDantas]

What is a Boddhisattva exactly?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yhttp://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Buddhism/C - Zen/Stories/The Cucumber Sage/The Cucumber Sage.htm

Nice story, Crossfire.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You don't have to be an initiate to be a bodhisattva. A bodhisattva is an unawakened one who works from the unconscious mind (heart) to help awaken others, instead of from the conscious mind. You might liken some of them to holy fools, or even as light bearers/lucifers. Here's a story about a bodhisattva that might help you to understand.

http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Buddhism/C - Zen/Stories/The Cucumber Sage/The Cucumber Sage.htm

Holyl fools? Not a debate just wondering what that means the way you say that?

 

[LuisDantas]

Holyl fools? Not a debate just wondering what that means the way you say that?

Read the link and it shall be made clear.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Read the link and it shall be made clear.

Im asking for clarification. Please dont assume I didnt read it. I hate assumptions

Actually, neverrmind.

 

[LuisDantas]

Im asking for clarification. Please dont assume I didnt read it. I hate assumptions

Actually, neverrmind.

Sorry if I sounded rude. That was not what I meant.

The text seems clear to me. The Cucumber Sage was by most reasonable criteria very much a fool, but that did not stop him from having some form of instinctual wisdom.

It sounded exasperating to me, but life is just that way sometimes.

 

[crossfire]

Holyl fools? Not a debate just wondering what that means the way you say that?

OK, Sacred Fool might be a better term, as Holy Fool has more of a Christian association to it.
Their unconscious mind (heart) gets it. {A knowing heart.} They may pick up practices easily, like a duck takes to water, as their unconscious mind knows how to plug into the practice in question. Their conscious mind, on the other hand, might not be awakened, or might be in various stages of awakening. You might also associate "crazy wisdom" with them, as their conscious mind might not understand what their unconscious mind knows.

 

[crossfire]

Holyl fools? Not a debate just wondering what that means the way you say that?

OK, Sacred Fool might be a better term, as Holy Fool has more of a Christian association to it.
Their unconscious mind (heart) gets it. {A knowing heart.} They may pick up practices easily, like a duck takes to water, as their unconscious mind knows how to plug into the practice in question. Their conscious mind, on the other hand, might not be awakened, or might be in various stages of awakening. You might also associate "crazy wisdom" with them, as their conscious mind might not understand what their unconscious mind knows.

You can get some more clues from the Buddha himself. He would often refer to "when I was an unawakened bodhisattva..." What sort of "crazy" things did Buddha do before he awakened? He picked up and left his royal life and family behind to become a homeless beggar. He studied with many people, picked up the practices, and excelled at them. He also engaged in all sorts of crazy things before he awakened, like extreme austerities. It wasn't until he was determined to awaken by meditating intensely under the Bodhi tree, when finally his conscious mind awakened to the solution upon seeing the Morning Star rise during the third watch of the night.

Even after Buddha's awakening there was the resistance to females being able to be awakened that he had to consciously go through the logic in order to come to the conclusion that they can become awakened. Any sentient being who has a sentient mind can learn the dhamma and be awakened. Any caste. Any race/color. Devas, having sentient minds, can be awakened to the dhamma. Brahmas, having sentient minds can be awakened and learn the dhamma. Hungry Ghosts, having sentient minds, can be awakened and learn the dhamma. But women???? He had to go through the logic again before he could accept it--women having sentient minds, can also be awakened and learn the dhamma....crazy wisdom, indeed, for his time.

 

[ratikala]

Namaskaram

Even after Buddha's awakening there was the resistance to females being able to be awakened that he had to consciously go through the logic in order to come to the conclusion that they can become awakened. Any sentient being who has a sentient mind can learn the dhamma and be awakened. Any caste. Any race/color. Devas, having sentient minds, can be awakened to the dhamma. Brahmas, having sentient minds can be awakened and learn the dhamma. Hungry Ghosts, having sentient minds, can be awakened and learn the dhamma. But women???? He had to go through the logic again before he could accept it--women having sentient minds, can also be awakened and learn the dhamma....crazy wisdom, indeed, for his time.

if we fully consider the wisdom behind the Buddha's initial refusal of accepting female deciples the reasons were various , ...it is well known that his reasoning was partly that he deemed the life of a renunciate and a forest dweller to be too severe and too dangerous for women , and that he also deemed it to be a potential destraction for male monastics , ....

if there is crazy wisdom at play in this situation then it lay in the refusal it self , ...refusal does not indicate the Buddha's rejection of women or his need to re veiw his own logic it simply serves as a test to all involved , a test of the male sangha's understanding and acceptance and a test of the sincerity of the Female aspirants , at no point did the (Buddha an enlightened being) have to reveiw his logic, ....when Ananda out of compassion petitioned on Mahaprajapati behalf , he asked the Buddha if women were not equaly capable of attaining enlightenment , to which the Buddha replied affirmatively that they were , ....the question was of Womens capability to accept the conditions of renunciation .

 

[YmirGF]

I can only echo what others have said. For me, it was something someone said about me many years ago and I've always like the idea. I don't really believe in enlightenment, per se, any more, but I am quite keen on the possibility of an unending expansion of consciousness. I've made some progress and know I'll never reach the end of my explorations, so I have the time to be of help to those who want a few tips to enhance their own journey. Enlightenment isn't worth it if you're the only one at the party.

In reincarnational terms, I've been at this for a very long time already and though this may well be my last physical life the games will continue.
There is more to "you" than "you" allow yourselves to believe and discovering the depths of your own being will prove to be perennially enlightening.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

In reincarnational terms, I've been at this for a very long time already and though this may well be my last physical life the games will continue.
There is more to "you" than "you" allow yourselves to believe and discovering the depths of your own being will prove to be perennially enlightening.

My impression is that reincarnation into physical form is quite beyond anyone's control, but perhaps I'm a little naive. How can one be certain they will not arrive into another meat bag after physical death? I have many ideas related to reincarnation, but I suppose this isn't the place to discuss them in depth.

My personal views on bodhisattva is that the term itself is derived from a rather curious phenomenon that occurs to the mystic during acute and particularly deep episodes of transcendent experience. Naturally, the tendency after taking a deep sea dive is to come up for air and tell others what you saw. The episodes pretty much by definition are life altering. "Game changers," if you will.

 

[YmirGF]

My impression is that reincarnation into physical form is quite beyond anyone's control.

Quite the opposite to my thinking on the subject. Why would there be a system that removed control from the individual over such an important decision? That makes the whole process a relatively meaningless game of chance, but yes, to explore my twist on reincarnation would derail the thread. (But then again, would it really?)

How can one be certain they will not arrive into another meat bag after physical death?

I don't really know how to express it, Turkey, but you just know. It's a fringe benefit from expanding consciousness.

I have many ideas related to reincarnation, but I suppose this isn't the place to discuss them in depth.

Do keep in mind that I do not subscribe to the garden variety versions of reincarnation. But such is the role of the bodhisattva. We tell folks things that are different from what they expect to hear. If we didn't what would be the point?

My personal views on bodhisattva is that the term itself is derived from a rather curious phenomenon that occurs to the mystic during acute and particularly deep episodes of transcendent experience. Naturally, the tendency after taking a deep sea dive is to come up for air and tell others what you saw. The episodes pretty much by definition are life altering. "Game changers," if you will.

That much is sure, Turkey, that much is sure. I guess the other counter-intuitive message is that if you are waiting for enlightenment with a capital "E", then you are going to be waiting a long, long time, as you will never get to such a destination. That said, there are phases of consciousness that once experienced are more or less permanent and yours to enjoy and those states can be quite enlightening.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

Do keep in mind that I do not subscribe to the garden variety versions of reincarnation.

I kind of figured.

This topic has piqued my interest. I made a thread about it, so if you're interested in elaborating on your views, I'd be delighted to hear them. I'm sure others would as well.

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/reincarnation-explorations.189903/

 

[YmirGF]

I kind of figured.

This topic has piqued my interest. I made a thread about it, so if you're interested in elaborating on your views, I'd be delighted to hear them. I'm sure others would as well.

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/reincarnation-explorations.189903/

I'm always looking for a soapbox to climb up on.