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Who are you backing now? (US pres '16)

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I think his ego would persuade him to leave a 'presidential legacy' morally and ethically better than his business 'legacy' with the small potato purchases and employment practices. I do not think he would run the country like he runs Trump inc.
People not in business often fail to realize that the current level playing field includes overseas
manufacturing. Anyone who fails to take advantage of competitive manufacturing options will fail.
But as prez, he'd perhaps be able to change incentives to favor domestic manufacturing.
This is not hypocrisy.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I am down with that. The war on drugs is the war on citizens and individual freedoms as is the war on terror (but to a far lesser extent in number of victims, but with far greater destruction of lives). One of my fears is that we are becoming a kind of Orwellian police state where nothing is as it seems. will check out your web sites ASAP.
I agree.
I've long opposed the war on drugs.
 

Buttercup

Veteran Member
I think his ego would persuade him to leave a 'presidential legacy' morally and ethically better than his business 'legacy' with the small potato purchases and employment practices. I do not think he would run the country like he runs Trump inc.

Where have you found his standards for morals and ethics? I'm curious.
 
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MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
People not in business often fail to realize that the current level playing field includes overseas
manufacturing. Anyone who fails to take advantage of competitive manufacturing options will fail.
But as prez, he'd perhaps be able to change incentives to favor domestic manufacturing.
This is not hypocrisy.

I agree! Hey I think you are my atheistic alter ego! Thats a compliment in case you are wondering....
 

MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
Where have you found his standards for moral and ethics? I'm curious.

I have no hard facts at all. I am an armchair psychologist and actually have a little formal education in that area. I am going by his personality type and what drives him, as well as his age and station in life. If I had better choices I would never consider such flimsy criteria. But look at Hillary. I can't forgive her for the Benghazi thing or other issues that are diametrically opposed to my MO of Cruze cant win (imo), so why waste my vote on him? Sanders has a good heart and is a good man but again his ideal system of government is something I am fairly terrified of for various reasons.
 

Buttercup

Veteran Member
I have no hard facts at all. I am an armchair psychologist and actually have a little formal education in that area. I am going by his personality type and what drives him, as well as his age and station in life. If I had better choices I would never consider such flimsy criteria. But look at Hillary. I can't forgive her for the Benghazi thing or other issues that are diametrically opposed to my MO of Cruze cant win (imo), so why waste my vote on him? Sanders has a good heart and is a good man but again his ideal system of government is something I am fairly terrified of for various reasons.
That's a reasonable response. However, Donald Trump's morals and ethics are probably the main reason I could never consider voting for him. I couldn't vote for a man knowing he has government documented mob connections.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/31/politics/trump-mob-mafia/ - Trump's connections to the mafia.

And this was one of his worst moments ever:


Trump mocks reporter with disability

A VERY short of quick list of Trump's set of morals - the things he says:

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/12/donald-trump-ban-muslims-216513

Trump is a loser, plain as day.
 

MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
That won't enhance your popularity around here.
But if you disagree on the right things, you could fare quite well !

Ha! The usual suspects are everywhere. I define usual suspects by those minions that lurk in every forum on earth that intensely dislikes anyone that is different from they, and or holds a different opinion. Example I am often disliked for being a Christian. The dislike more often than not raises to hate if express my birth credentials of being a whitebread N. AMERICAN southern male. Anyway isnt it best to form an opinion of someone by their ethical and moral standards as well as the normal stuff. Race, ethnicity, religious or lifestyle preferences and their opinions on most major issues should be low in importance shouldn't they? . Actually I usually find the more different from me that someone is makes them interesting. Everyone wants to be liked, but extending common respect and intelligently debating and discussing the issues are far more important to this hillbilly than the other stuff.
 

MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
That's a reasonable response. However, Donald Trump's morals and ethics are probably the main reason I could never consider voting for him. I couldn't vote for a man knowing he has government documented mob connections.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/31/politics/trump-mob-mafia/ - Trump's connections to the mafia.

And this was one of his worst moments ever:

Trump mocks reporter with disability

A VERY short of quick list of Trump's set of morals - the things he says:

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/12/donald-trump-ban-muslims-216513

Trump is a loser, plain as day.


Hi Buttercup; ' amore è troppo bello! Io vengo troppo depresso guardando quei ranuncolo film dolce amaro'

That said, you said;

"Trump is a loser, plain as day."

With all due respect buttercup , tell Trump is a loser to everyone that poked major fun at trump thinking he would have not even the slightest chance getting the GOP nomination. That said, I understand you and agree about his callous and uncalled for remarks to the disabled and others. BTW, I am a 100% disabled vet. The only difference between you and I may be that I am sure the lions share of his rants and his truly off base innuendos are just gimmicks, like, was it ozzy or Alice who first bit a head off a chicken? Devil worshipers for sure! Or were the early rock bands closet capitalistic pigs like umm' Mick Jagger who said; 'I dont wear my wealth on stage'). Look at him sparkle now! So again all the candidates are wagging the dog and are using whatever vile stinking tactics* to endear or win over voters just like the afore mentioned rock stars used similar things to divest their fans of their funds.

If the question/debate topic had been 'who out of the current crop of candidates would make the best president , and who I personally would like to see elected it would be Ted Cruze, he is a 'constitutionalist' and a Christian, and he has experience in government office. His defense and love of our constitution is one of the very most important values/virtues a presidential candidate can have. Being a Christian is a value of a different tier, but is even more important on a personal level. The one thing I fear most about Trump is that he would attempt to steam roll over the constitution if he became horn locked in a battle of wills with anyone or thing from the SC to the senate etc. Obama violated the constitution with his pen, Donald may attempt to violate it with large money (maybe bribes etc) and by force of will. He has billions of his own money to spread around and that allows him advantages other presidents did not have. If trump wins hold on my friends its going to be an exciting if not terrifying ride!
 
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Buttercup

Veteran Member
Hi Buttercup; ' amore è troppo bello! Io vengo troppo depresso guardando quei ranuncolo film dolce amaro'

That said, you said;

"Trump is a loser, plain as day."

With all due respect buttercup , tell Trump is a loser to everyone that poked major fun at trump thinking he would have not even the slightest chance getting the GOP nomination. That said, I understand you and agree about his callous and uncalled for remarks to the disabled and others. BTW, I am a 100% disabled vet. The only difference between you and I may be that I am sure the lions share of his rants and his truly off base innuendos are just gimmicks, like, was it ozzy or Alice who first bit a head off a chicken? Devil worshipers for sure! Or were the early rock bands closet capitalistic pigs like umm' Mick Jagger who said; 'I dont wear my wealth on stage'). Look at him sparkle now! So again all the candidates are wagging the dog and are using whatever vile stinking tactics* to endear or win over voters just like the afore mentioned rock stars used similar things to divest their fans of their funds.

If the question/debate topic had been 'who out of the current crop of candidates would make the best president , and who I personally would like to see elected it would be Ted Cruze, he is a 'constitutionalist' and a Christian, and he has experience in government office. His defense and love of our constitution is one of the very most important values/virtues a presidential candidate can have. Being a Christian is a value of a different tier, but is even more important on a personal level. The one thing I fear most about Trump is that he would attempt to steam roll over the constitution if he became horn locked in a battle of wills with anyone or thing from the SC to the senate etc. Obama violated the constitution with his pen, Donald may attempt to violate it with large money (maybe bribes etc) and by force of will. He has billions of his own money to spread around and that allows him advantages other presidents did not have. If trump wins hold on my friends its going to be an exciting if not terrifying ride!
I guess we aren't going to discuss Trump's morality and ethics relating to his former mob affiliation, his taunting of the disabled reporter or any of the xenophobic or racist comments he made. Therefore, I wont say much in response to your comments except this: I'd like to offer a sincere thank for your service to our country and am sorry to hear about the impact on your health. I hope the government has taken care of your needs. Bernie Sanders is hands down the best advocate for vets of the major candidates, just thought you should know in case you didn't. You might want to research that aspect, if you're so inclined.
 

MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
I guess we aren't going to discuss Trump's morality and ethics relating to his former mob affiliation, his taunting of the disabled reporter or any of the xenophobic or racist comments he made.

Hmm' are you being difficult? Maybe you just dont understand my replies? I addressed nearly every issue you brought up. If I did not answer your concerns and questions satisfactory or if you did not understand my replies, all you had to do is ask me to clarify. For example in the quote below referencing Trumps seemingly cruel and baseless remarks to the disabled reporter (and other obnoxious behaviors) I was trying to agree with you ....at least in part. I said;

"That said, I understand you and agree about his callous and uncalled for remarks to the disabled and others. BTW, I am a 100% disabled vet. The only difference between you and I may be that I am sure the lions share of his rants and his truly off base innuendos are just gimmicks



I also responded to his JP Barnum ethics and mob affiliations as well as some of his more serious problems. Basically I said that the GOP and politicians in general have dropped the ball by enraging their constituents for over twenty years. I could fill this page with the reasons for the voter anger, suffice to say we are tired of getting lied to. We are getting tired of the PACs and other wall street made men stealing our cheese. We are tired of dysfunctional two party system (for all practical purposes) that is in FACT a one party system of the rich doing what they want without fear of impeachment or accountability for the most part!****Cof***** sorry....I got on a off topic rant.....but what I mean is Trump seems different, he isn't the run of the mill talking head automatons that sit on capitol hill sucking us dry. TRUMP IS a protest vote Butter cup. It would not matter if Trump was the moral equivalent to Marquis de Sade the or Vlad the impaler. Many of trumps supporters would still vote for him. He has other things going for him such as the perceived notion of being a brilliant business man and so the huddled masses hope he can fix what is broken in our economic lackluster performance of stagnant or declining wages and such
! If we cause some of politicians and that traitor Megan Kelly a series of massive fear based heart attacks (in metaphor') too bad we want to give some of that rage and anger back to the evergreen career politicization.

Therefore, I wont say much in response to your comments except this: I'd like to offer a sincere thank for your service to our country and am sorry to hear about the impact on your health. I hope the government has taken care of your needs.

Thank you so much BC! Yes I have received far more support financial and other aid and care than my stint with uncle sam. I am grateful for everything and even if it seems like I hate my country, the opposite is true. I am in love with her. Its the love of money politicians and their cronies that are destroying what could be a paradise.

Bernie Sanders is hands down the best advocate for vets of the major candidates, just thought you should know in case you didn't. You might want to research that aspect, if you're so inclined.

I think sanders loves his nation and the people. I am trying to be more flexible with the socialism thing! Its a while before the election and I am still open to who I vote for. Thanks for your replies and sorry to all for the length of this thing!
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I heard on CNN, minus what was just announced 5 seconds ago, that Donald Trump would conservatively need 60% to get to a majority and Sanders 72%. Not sure if I'll stay up to tell it tonight or go to sleep and tell it tomorrow, but that's what they said a minute ago.
 
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robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
pre-Missouri (absentee and overseas not counted yet)

remaining 1134 621 396 138 total 1344 (http://www.politico.com/2016-election/results/delegate-count-tracker)
1074 762 2045 (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/democratic_delegate_count.html)
621+x*1134=1344-621+(1-x)*1134...
1074+x*2045=762+(1-x)*2045...
In the Republicans, Trump needs 54.50% of the remaining votes to get a majority.
Cruz needs 74.34%
Kasich needs 97.09% of the remaining votes.
In the Democrats, with regular delegates, Clinton has to get 42.37% of the remaining ones.
Sanders needs 57.63%

Third party candidates: http://www.politics1.com/p2016.htm
 
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Politesse

Amor Vincit Omnia
*sigh* Ah, well. I still support Mr. Sanders, but no longer expect him to even be in the running by the time my state primary comes along in June.

We may actually be important to the Republican race, interestingly. We usually aren't important to anything. But of course I won't be voting for any of those clowns. Since undeclared voters get to choose in California, I did vote in a Republican primary once before, genuinely wanting Romney on the ticket over the tea party loons and caring more about that than the shoo-in vote for Obama.
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I just heard Jim Cramer saying Donald Trump was better for trade. I don't think Jim Cramer is dishonest and trade is an important thing. I'm trying to decide harder now.
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Oh well I guess I don't care... the US is already the richest nation on earth by GDP... China has like 10 times as many people and is still poorer in GDP... I think we should be internationalist about this.
 
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