WHO CREATED GOD?????

[chookyman]

Two questions:

1) If god created this universe and al within it, who then created god? If god is a higher form, then it means that there is a form greater then god.

2) a soul or spirit exisit in the life of al living organisms (plant, animal, cel, bacteria etc).. So if god put a soul / spirit into life when it is created biologically through natural menas, how then can a cloned species exisit the same as a species created by nature and also have a soul? This is impossabble, because the spirit comes from god, not by man who created the species.

:roll:

 

[Ardhanariswar]

hm.... God was existing before anything. before the big bang. before everything

but the idea of God was created (or divinely inspired) by humans. those humans who follow God believe he had existed before everything. He is not created because He is not life. he is beyond life.

 

[Gunnard]

God is a thing isn't he?

 

[KBC1963]

WOW did I just drop into the twilight zone here or what?

 

[hadeka]

hii

i will tell u my opnion

you said that GOD created the universe and everything in it.

that's mean that GOD created the causes of life and causes of death

so he is the creator of life and death ...

and the creator of something ,must be stronger than it to create it

so GOD is stronger than death and it's opposite (to be created)

so he has no begginning and no end


but we have begginning and end because this begginning and end are stronger than us

 

[Rex]

To believe God was always here you cannot believe in the First Cause Theory.

 

[Gunnard]

the creator of something ,must be stronger than it to create it
so GOD is stronger than death and it's opposite (to be created)
but we have begginning and end because this begginning and end are stronger than us

We all die of course but we aren't stronger or weaker than the environment that we are born into, because we are just another cycle.
To a religious person all that sounds pretty dehumanizing, but they are blind to the greater beauty to it all when think there is no creator.

 

[Lightkeeper]

Maybe God is everything we don't know about ourselves. Maybe what we don't know about ourselves creates us and creates God.

 

[Linus]

God has no creator. He is eternal. He never had a begining, and he will never end. God is the ULTIMATE source of life. He created it and he is in control of it. If we think that someone created God, then we would have to think that someone created the creator of God. In which case there would have to be a creator of that creator. The cycle would never end. That is one reason why I believe God is eternal

 

[Bryan X]

God has no creator. He is eternal. He never had a begining, and he will never end. God is the ULTIMATE source of life. He created it and he is in control of it. If we think that someone created God, then we would have to think that someone created the creator of God. In which case there would have to be a creator of that creator. The cycle would never end. That is one reason why I believe God is eternal

BULLSEYE! :goodjob:

 

[Linus]

Thanks Bryan X. Also, in refference to the second question, I believe that humans are the only beings on this planet with a soul. No other animal, plant, fungus, bacteria, etc., has a relationship with God like we do. We (humans) operate based on free will, while animals operate on instinct. God gave us souls so that we may CHOOSE whether or not to follow Him. So an animal (cloned or not) has no soul because they cannot choose to obey God or not. I think that if they did have souls, then there would be some command to save them as well as our own. What do you think?

 

[Yerda]

Is there any evidence to suggest that animals have no souls and act on instinct instead of free will? Furthermore there appears to be no direct evidence suggesting the presence of a soul in humans. I would like to add that as humans, according to hundreds of years of research, developed in reaction to their environment we should in theory be no different from any other organism (and are not on a molecular basis). Should it not therefore be valid that all organisms are in possesion of a soul or none are?

 

[Linus]

Yes ther is evidence for their lack of free will. Why else would some birds fly south for the winter? If it were free will I think some of them would stay rather than fly all that distance. Instinct tells them that winter is coming, so they migrate. Why do bears hibernate for the winter? It's instinct. We as humans do not act that way.

 

[Gunnard]

We as humans do not act that way.

We don't exactly do as those animals do, but the overall purpose of them doing the things they do is the same as ours. That is to listen to your primal instincts or go the way of the dodo bird, its that simple. If you got the wrong instincts for a new situation, well the only thing that will be known of you will be a dusty fossil in some futuristic alien museum.

 

[Yerda]

Linus,
Bears hibernate to avoid to avoid the harshness of the season, birds also migrate for this same reason. Some species of bacteria sporulate when conditions become unfavourable. Would you suggest that these bacteria rely on instinct? Humans as much a product of survival pressures as any other organism also have specific and complex mechanisms for coping in adverse situations in common with many other mammals. I understand your belief that humans are set apart from other organisms but the fact remains there is very little difference between humans and, say, other higher primates which are similar in physiology, genetics and behaviour.

Good point though.

 

[Linus]

Good point, gunnard. We do make decisions in the same manner as animals do, but I think the decisions we make are more based on a "do what you feel" mentality if that makes sense.

And truthseekingsoul, yes bears hibernate and birds migrate to avoid the the harsh winter. I know this. But why don't bears migrate or birds hibernate? Why dont they choose the manner in which they get away from the harshness? I think it's instinct that tells them, "ok its time to hibernate" or, "alright, winter's coming, fly south."

Humans deal with these situatiuons also, but in a diferent manner. If it gets cold what do we do? We do one of many things. We put on more clothes, we move, we turn the heater on, but instinct doesnt tell us to do one specific thing or another.

 

[Gunnard]

Well if I get cold in my house the first thing I think is I'm cold for like a split second from my primative brain, then it sez, "hey smart brain what are you going to do about this, then my higher brain goes hey I remember four things that I was taught, I could: 1)put some more clothes on, 2)turn on the heater, 3)walk around till I warm up, or 4)screech at my sister to turn on the heater, then after I review my options carefully, I consider how lazy I feel. If I feel too lazy and only have so much energy reserves and can't reach escape velocity to stand up, then the only option I could pick is 4).

 

[Master Vigil]

If you happened to live in the woods, and winter came, would you stay out in the cold with shorts on? No of course not. The only difference is we have houses and heaters to keep us warm. So we don't have to fly south for the winter. But they do. (And no a bear could not decide to fly south. Bears cannot fly.) That is no different, we have to get warm, they have to get warm. The way we decide to get warm does not change the fact that, we want to get warm. From an eastern standpoint, animals are more pure than humans. For they do what is necessary and nothing more. They don't have to. And they are happy. Humans are greedy selfish animals who think they are better than everything else and therefore do not follow the Tao like animals do. Therefore we are not as pure. So from that thought, animals souls are better off than ours. Personally I believe that animals are more pure than humans. And their souls are much more powerful than ours. Everything with life posesses a soul, for the soul gives life. No need to be saved, no need to know god, just for life.

 

[Linus]

First of all, I did not ask why bears cannot fly, I asked why they cannot migrate. Obviously bears cannot fly, but they can walk.

Anyway, Yes I agree with your point, Master Vigil, in that we humans do have instincts, but the difference lies in the fact that we can choose weather or not we want to ignore those instincts. We can reason and rationalize our way through any decision, forcing ourselves to do things that we would not naturally do (in other words, instinct). Whether we do it or not, we still have the choice.

You said it yourself: animals do what is necessary and nothing more. And that's just my point. Humans have the option and the ability to do more than what is required. If we didn't have that option then the only thing we would need to wory about is our own survival. There wouldn't be a need for electricity, or heaters, or planes, or any modern convenience for that matter. But humans constantly want to make life easier for themselves so we have accomplished many things to do so. Animals don't invent things to make it easier to eat or easier to get warm, they simply use what they have to survive.