Who gave Jesus all authority in Heaven and Earth?

[1robin]

You think?

Have you ever seen what humans can do physically? Some of what they can do looks like nothing but magic, but they really can do those incredible stunts.

Jesus is not a physical man, but a spiritual one. Seeing what humans can do and I am not one bit surprised that someone can behave in a way that people call "divine". Actually, being perfect spiritually is a whole lot easier than being perfect physically. Jesus is a perfectly spiritual man for YHVH. Is that divine? I think so! I am not arguing that Jesus is not divine.

Bad news for republicans.

Ciao

- viole

I am not responding to your post. I am complaining that when I stopped debating many months ago you had one avatar and then when I showed back up I find that you got rid of it. Your former avatar had grown on me over the course of many debates. I am calling the internet police if you don't bring it back ...... Your the only person that I could use Monty Python quotes with.........Fix it.

 

[savagewind]

What does "god breathed" mean anyway?

Something else. It is written that the sacred secrets would be made known to the least of believers.
That means your theory that the council of Nicene should be trusted with the Truth is utter hogwash.

1 Corinthians 1:28

Like me, @Thief and the lady (the funny one)

 

[savagewind]

I am not responding to your post. I am complaining that when I stopped debating many months ago you had one avatar and then when I showed back up I find that you got rid of it. Your former avatar had grown on me over the course of many debates. I am calling the internet police if you don't bring it back ...... Your the only person that I could use Monty Python quotes with.........Fix it.

I think you are talking to viola, but here you have made another mistake. Seeing that you have added my quote there it might appear that your post is addressed to savagewind, but it isn't. Right?

 

[savagewind]

Many times, even with spell-check, I write ever when I really mean every. **** like that never happens whenever the Bible is written, according to magic believers. I don't believe magic could be condemned but then used to write God's Holy Words. Do you?

 

[savagewind]

Here it is; God can't make a mistake. That is what GOD means imho.

So everything that comes out of God's mouth is HOLY.

But then, it gets handled by people who are NOT holy.

It is ok. The mistakes are like dirt that has to be carefully swept away for the treasure to be found.
It can be found.

YOU trust other people to have the treasure YOU need to understand what is actually God breathed.

YOU keep forgetting that it is written ABOUT GOD that God is "jealous".

And that it is written trust in God with ALL your heart. You have given most of your heart to
men's traditions. God is jealous.

 

[1robin]

I think you are talking to viola, but here you have made another mistake. Seeing that you have added my quote there it might appear that your post is addressed to savagewind, but it isn't. Right?

If you look at how many posts I have it is over 12,000, however I have not debated in the last six months or so. When I first started debating at this site they had a great interface, they then upgraded and the new interface was not too good compared with the first one, however they even changed the new interface a bit over the last six months when I was burned out with debating so this new version does some weird stuff and I have not gotten it's vagaries figured out perfectly. I have no idea why my post also quoted your post. The way the format used to be it wouldn't have.

Regardless, me and Voile have a long history of debating so yes I meant to comment only to her about her former avatar. Your pointing out a mistake by a person who readily admits his imperfections is not very illuminating nor necessary.

Let me use this post to ask you again if your post about not wanting to debate anyone who believes holy scripture is well ............ holy and by that virtue also the authority in discussions about what it says, means that you do not want to debate me? I will not bother responding further if that is the case and I would appreciate it if you would let me know soon so I don't waste my time if you wish to stop. Since you said you don't want to debate anyone who holds this almost universal mainstream Christian position and then sent me a half dozen posts afterwards, I have no idea what you want to do.

P.S. To avoid wasting time pointing out my faults where I will gladly admit to them. I work in a defense laboratory and post in small windows of free time between running and trouble shooting F-15 test equipment so I must type as fast as possible and occasionally that means I make a typo.

 

[savagewind]

Regardless, me and Voile have a long history of debating so yes I meant to comment only to her about her former avatar. Your pointing out a mistake by a person who readily admits his imperfections is not very illuminating nor necessary.

It was the point that in the writing of the Bible it had to have happened.
Did David write some of god breathed scripture? Was he perfect?
Was the writing of his awful mistakes not illuminating?

 

[savagewind]

Let me use this post to ask you again if your post about not wanting to debate anyone who believes holy scripture is well ............ holy and by that virtue also the authority in discussions about what it says, means that you do not want to debate me? I will not bother responding further if that is the case and I would appreciate it if you would let me know soon so I don't waste my time if you wish to stop. Since you said you don't want to debate anyone who holds this almost universal mainstream Christian position and then sent me a half dozen posts afterwards, I have no idea what you want to do..

Such manners on the internet are rare. Thank you for responding gentlemanly. If, according to you, all scripture is as it should be, and never-the-less, I think that your trying to convince me your way is futile. I am pretty sure I will never believe you. So, alas, I shouldn't waste your time. I am sorry.

P.S. To avoid wasting time pointing out my faults where I will gladly admit to them. I work in a defense laboratory and post in small windows of free time between running and trouble shooting F-15 test equipment so I must type as fast as possible and occasionally that means I make a typo.

You ARE cute. I knew it!

 

[1robin]

Listen i'm not disagreeing with you that Jehovah God passes on the truth through Holy spirit to mortal men.

Is there any way I could get you to bullet point the claims you make? It is kind of hard to address all the points you make because I have to guess where one point ends and another begins. Regardless, we agree here.

I'm saying that the sheep are suppose to be confirming the truth not just following what someone else is saying.

Hold the phone a minute. Your initial reaction to my Sunday schools kids point was to deny them all together. It would be different if you had first stated how we are to come to divine truth and then shown that Sunday school kids do not do it. Instead you simply wrote the whole idea that the answer I gave to a question was so simplistic and basic that kids learn it early on.

Paul reasoned from the scriptures he didn't just tell people to listen to him. Acts 17 : 1 - 4 ( 1 They now traveled through Am·phipʹo·lis and Ap·ol·loʹni·a and came to Thes·sa·lo·niʹca, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. 2 So according to Paul’s custom he went inside to them, and for three sabbaths he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving by references that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, saying: “This is the Christ, this Jesus whom I am proclaiming to you.” 4 As a result, some of them became believers and associated themselves with Paul and Silas, and so did a great multitude of the Greeks who worshiped God, along with quite a few of the principal women.) You can't call yourself a Christian and not study the Bible just like a person cannot call themselves a Doctor without proper training. What i was trying to show you was that Jehovah And Jesus are a Father and Son not some trinity. They are two separate entities and the Holy Spirit is the tutor that teaches us all things. The reason why your suppose to be baptized in the name of the Father Son And Holy spirit is because of recognition, because the Father was the first to act on our behalf by sending his son down here on orders to walk the earth without sin and serving himself up as a sacrifice for our lives among other things. John 3 : 16 states (16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.) John 8 : 42 states (42 Jesus said to them: “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I have not come of my own initiative, but that One sent me. ( You have two scriptures here telling you that Jehovah sent Jesus not Jehovah God coming in the flesh as Jesus that's the teaching of the Antichrist. ) The Son is recognized not only for what I already wrote but for obeying the Father all the way until death.
Philippians 2 : 5 - 8 states ( 5 Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. 7 No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human. 8 More than that, when he came as a man,* he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake.) Gods form mentioned in verse 6 merely is talking about a spiritual being, and in the same verse it says he didn't consider himself equal to God. The Holy Spirit gets it's recognition because it's the promised helper that Jesus said the Father would send back in his name to teach them all things and bring back to mind all the things he taught them. John 14 : 26 states ( . 26 But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you.)
Anyone who believes that God came in the flesh as Jesus is the Antichrist.
1 John 4 : 2 - 3 states.( 2 This is how you know that the inspired statement is from God: Every inspired statement that acknowledges Jesus Christ as having come in the flesh originates with God. 3 But every inspired statement that does not acknowledge Jesus does not originate with God. Furthermore, this is the Antichrist’s inspired statement that you have heard was coming, and now it is already in the world.

I am completely lost.

You gave a bunch of scriptures which of course I would never deny or attack but then you made a bizarre conclusion.

You stated:

"Anyone who believes that God came in the flesh as Jesus is the Antichrist"

I hope that the statement you made above that I quoted is a typo because the thing you quoted next was:

This is how you know that the inspired statement is from God: Every inspired statement that acknowledges Jesus Christ as having come in the flesh originates with God.

As far as I can tell the two statements I quoted of yours are complete contradictions unless you made a typing mistake.

I will await your clarification because I have no idea what your trying to say.

 

[Blessed of JEHOVAH]

Is there any way I could get you to bullet point the claims you make? It is kind of hard to address all the points you make because I have to guess where one point ends and another begins. Regardless, we agree here.

Hold the phone a minute. Your initial reaction to my Sunday schools kids point was to deny them all together. It would be different if you had first stated how we are to come to divine truth and then shown that Sunday school kids do not do it. Instead you simply wrote the whole idea that the answer I gave to a question was so simplistic and basic that kids learn it early on.

I am completely lost.

You gave a bunch of scriptures which of course I would never deny or attack but then you made a bizarre conclusion.

You stated:
I hope that the statement you made above that I quoted is a typo because the thing you quoted next was:

As far as I can tell the two statements I quoted of yours are complete contradictions unless you made a typing mistake.

I will await your clarification because I have no idea what your trying to say.

What I do is make a point then give you scriptures to support it. I mean my goodness i'm sitting here telling you that Jehovah is God and showing you how that is so and you think i think Jesus is God. I'm not tryna argue with any one about the scriptures if you can't make out what i'm saying sorry. I don't believe you cause i clearly showed you that Jehovah is God. He didn't come in the flesh Jesus did. THE SON. and any one saying that JEHOVAH God came in the flesh as Jesus is the Antichrist.

 

[savagewind]

What I do is make a point then give you scriptures to support it. I mean my goodness i'm sitting here telling you that Jehovah is God and showing you how that is so and you think i think Jesus is God. I'm not tryna argue with any one about the scriptures if you can't make out what i'm saying sorry. I don't believe you cause i clearly showed you that Jehovah is God. He didn't come in the flesh Jesus did. THE SON. and any one saying that JEHOVAH God came in the flesh as Jesus is the Antichrist.

The antichrist is anyone who will stand up in the place belonging to the Christ calling it his own place. It is written that all authority was given to the son of God and some people say that he in turn gave them the authority to say what means what. They are the antichrists who mislead people away from the real Christ.

It is very obvious to me that if Jesus knew you and they would fight like dogs about his divinity he would have made it very clear which way we should believe.

Seek peace with all people. Do you think Jesus should not seek peace also?

 

[1robin]

Such manners on the internet are rare. Thank you for responding gentlemanly. If, according to you, all scripture is as it should be, and never-the-less, I think that your trying to convince me your way is futile. I am pretty sure I will never believe you. So, alas, I shouldn't waste your time. I am sorry.

You ARE cute. I knew it!

Very well, thanks for answering my question. Even before you gave me a compliment I liked talking to you. Its a shame you cannot use scripture as the authority in a discussion about scripture. I joke around on here sometimes but the subject matter under discussion is more important and profound than any subject matter ever studied in the sad history of man. I was the biggest Atheist going for most of my young life then after some remarkable events my mind did a 180 and I became a born again Christian who has spent over 30 years studying scripture almost daily, over 20 years watching, listening to, or reading transcripts of professional theological debates, I have participated in over 20,000 personal debates over the years, and I was a Church councilor for many years. Let me offer you some friendly but deadly serious advice because I like you.

What you are engaged in is among the most dangerous efforts imaginable. I call it metaphysical speculation but history refers to it as Gnosticism. It is in simple terms the attempt to reason out divine truths in a vacuum, instead of getting in touch with the divine its self. I tell you this because I want you to come to the truth as I have, by plugging into the source of all truth its self and the revelation he has provided.

Talk to you later, God bless.

 

[savagewind]

Very well, thanks for answering my question. Even before you gave me a compliment I liked talking to you. Its a shame you cannot use scripture as the authority in a discussion about scripture. I joke around on here sometimes but the subject matter under discussion is more important and profound than any subject matter ever studied in the sad history of man. I was the biggest Atheist going for most of my young life then after some remarkable events my mind did a 180 and I became a born again Christian who has spent over 30 years studying scripture almost daily, over 20 years watching, listening to, or reading transcripts of professional theological debates, I have participated in over 20,000 personal debates over the years, and I was a Church councilor for many years. Let me offer you some friendly but deadly serious advice because I like you.

What you are engaged in is among the most dangerous efforts imaginable. I call it metaphysical speculation but history refers to it as Gnosticism. It is in simple terms the attempt to reason out divine truths in a vacuum, instead of getting in touch with the divine its self. I tell you this because I want you to come to the truth as I have, by plugging into the source of all truth its self and the revelation he has provided.

Talk to you later, God bless.

I don't understand. God's wisdom is authoritative. I do not reason out any divine truth in a vacuum. I suspect you're more likely to do that. I believe in "all scripture inspired". I know what all means. I am pretty sure The Helper made it known to me. Maybe we agree on "the truth that (1robin) has. What is it?

Is it that Jesus is the God of Abraham? I don't believe that.

 

[1robin]

I don't understand. God's wisdom is authoritative. I do not reason out any divine truth in a vacuum. I suspect you're more likely to do that. I believe in "all scripture inspired". I know what all means. I am pretty sure The Helper made it known to me. Maybe we agree on "the truth that [you] have". What is it?

Just when I thought I was out, you sucked me back in. Just kidding, do you know what movie that is from?

What you keep saying keeps contradicting its self in spite of my best efforts to find harmony in what you claim. At this point I am wondering if it is possible to come to know what you stand for in the discussion. It is in my interest to quickly come to know what another poster's position is so that I can agree or contend with it. Occasionally, though it be in my interest to know, I am unable to figure out exactly what another person's position is. Since I like you I will invest a few more moments in an attempt to establish what you actually think in another way.

Hold on a second. Before I get into the doctrine of solo scriptoria let me ask you something. Are you a Catholic? If so this may explain what your claiming. I need to know what in the world is going on here before I know what needs to be done about it.

 

[savagewind]

Just when I thought I was out, you sucked me back in. Just kidding, do you know what movie that is from?

What you keep saying keeps contradicting its self in spite of my best efforts to find harmony in what you claim. At this point I am wondering if it is possible to come to know what you stand for in the discussion. It is in my interest to quickly come to know what another poster's position is so that I can agree or contend with it. Occasionally, though it be in my interest to know, I am unable to figure out exactly what another person's position is. Since I like you I will invest a few more moments in an attempt to establish what you actually think in another way.

Hold on a second. Before I get into the doctrine of solo scriptoria let me ask you something. Are you a Catholic? If so this may explain what your claiming. I need to know what in the world is going on here before I know what needs to be done about it.

Not Catholic. I was a nominal Christian and got baptized as a baby in the Lutheran Church.
Mom changed to a closer church. It was Congregational.

I was interested in the Bible for a little while but I knew I could not understand it on my own so I quit that.

Then the Jehovah's Witnesses found me and I think I accepted a Bible study because the young lady mentioned Jesus. I believed in him. When I was a teenager, I went to a Christian retreat and i accepted him in a solemn ceremony and then I forgot him. It was always in my subconscious that I wanted to know him and what it was all about and so I studied with the JWs and I believed them about progressing, so I was baptized. Nothing happened. I slaved for them for almost twenty years and then I discovered that they are lying so I prayed fervently and was born again. Now I am with Jesus.

 

[savagewind]

@1robin What does solo scriptoria mean? I googled it, but it seems there is no clear definition that I might find quick. Are you espousing it?

Can it mean faith in the Bible alone? I think that is so ridiculous it is funny.

 

[Blessed of JEHOVAH]

The antichrist is anyone who will stand up in the place belonging to the Christ calling it his own place. It is written that all authority was given to the son of God and some people say that he in turn gave them the authority to say what means what. They are the antichrists who mislead people away from the real Christ.

It is very obvious to me that if Jesus knew you and they would fight like dogs about his divinity he would have made it very clear which way we should believe.

Seek peace with all people. Do you think Jesus should not seek peace also?

I came to you peacefully and you act as if you can't see the things i'm writing. You don't know the scriptures the way you think you do always trying to rile people up. I pay you no mind cause I've discerned your intentions. Matthew 10 : 34 - 39 ( 34. Do not think I came to bring peace to the earth; I came to bring, not peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 Indeed, a man’s enemies will be those of his own household. 37 Whoever has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and whoever has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his soul will lose it, and whoever loses his soul for my sake will find it. Now that's what Jesus had to say.

 

[savagewind]

I came to you peacefully and you act as if you can't see the things i'm writing. You don't know the scriptures the way you think you do always trying to rile people up. I pay you no mind cause I've discerned your intentions. Matthew 10 : 34 - 39 ( 34. Do not think I came to bring peace to the earth; I came to bring, not peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 Indeed, a man’s enemies will be those of his own household. 37 Whoever has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and whoever has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his soul will lose it, and whoever loses his soul for my sake will find it. Now that's what Jesus had to say.

There you go again, thinking you know it all. Look up the word for "Peace". It means personal peace or rest. I am talking about peace with God and others. Galatians 3:28 Ephesians 2:14-17 Colossians 1:20
Colossians 3:11 Colossians 3:15

Can you admit that you take scripture OUT of context and decide for yourself what it means?

Is it not obvious to you that the sword he leaves is the word of God?

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

Isaiah 49:2 He made my mouth like a sharpened sword, in the shadow of his hand he hid me; he made me into a polished arrow and concealed me in his quiver.

Before you set your heart on meaning
1. look at the whole collection of words. There you will find confirmation or disagreement
2. look at the meaning of each little word in the sentence, For instance, someone thinks come, as in "I have not come to bring peace" can also mean "go" as in "my going will not bring peace"

Look at the word for "bring" as in, "I have not come to bring peace". It means, throw or cast.

Now read: I have not come to cast peace but a sword.

Can't anybody take up the word of God and do what he will with it? It is a fact they do. A sower went to sow...........It is a fact that people who are not chosen will take up the sword. That is what CAST means. He does not cast (or throw) peace [that is because it must be earned] but he casts swords. It's true, he does. Or did. He IS the truth. Whenever you deny that something connected to Christ is true, you deny him. How is that not true?

See what bad meaning can do? YOU have applied to me anti-something or other because I disagree with your meaning. They did that to Jesus and Jesus has said that they will do that to his people. And you did!

 

[savagewind]

The Jehovah's Witnesses and others believe that peace with God is only possible after Jesus comes to wage war with opposers. Sound familiar? It is what nations do*. AND Jesus says, "you are no part of the World". Where does he say, "but I am"?

*Nations fight wars for peace.

OMG it shouldn't be funny, but it is. Someone not of this world asks about this world and someone who knows says, "that is where they wage war for peace".

 

[savagewind]

They don't get it yet. They said to Jesus that he is not of God and YOU say that I am not of Jesus.
That puts me in his class. And funny how you aren't here.

Does the fact that the superfine apostles aren't here with me prove to you I am not in his class?

I am going to guess. You won't gather to me. Correct? Is that you forsaking me because of your TRADITION?

Not forsaking gathering together as some have the custom.

Does it mean that some people think more of their traditions (custom) than they do of gathering to The Lord?